55 year-old Baylor law applicant files age bias claim Forum

[alwayssunnyinfl]

Saying an older person who happened to get dinged in an admissions cycle with slightly superior numbers is equivalent to separate but equal is disgusting.

Think about it? Is it really disgusting? Are older applicants desired at the top law schools? That question may yield a surprising answer if this case goes anywhere. You have to try on the ridiculous in order to understand the law. That's an ugly fact.

After 20 years, a 20-year-old with resources and advantages should have more on his resume. After 20 years, a black person is still black.

[Nova]

Saying an older person who happened to get dinged in an admissions cycle with slightly superior numbers is equivalent to separate but equal is disgusting.

For real....

[3ThrowAway99]

I think there may be some ageism in this thread...

Also, I don't think posters are necessarily correct that age discrim isn't actionable in college admissions.. With a quick Google search:

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/qa-age.html

I actually think it is much more likely he was a yield protect though.. How many people with a 169 go to Baylor?

[Edited post for politeness; I get a little worked up over this topic, even though I think the guy was probably just yield protected and should just enjoy a better school elsewhere... But I don't know the facts--maybe he needs to stay in the area etc--and if he was discriminated against because he's older that sucks IMO).

[PDaddy]

Saying an older person who happened to get dinged in an admissions cycle with slightly superior numbers is equivalent to separate but equal is disgusting.

For real....

Lets be clear on one thing: I AM black, and I am at least willing to look at this from other angles. No, age discrimination against...anyone, is not the same as race discrimination against black people. On this board, I am Mr. Black people! Lol. So don't get me twisted.

That having been said, I don't think people should write this case off so quickly, especially when we all know that the law schools (Baylor included) probably DO prefer applicants within a certain age range, and demonstrate that preference in their admissions patterns. Their motives for that preference is obvious: protecting their employment stats, which they believe are hurt by older, thus perceivably less desired, applicants. Like I said, discrimination is all about motive.

Can the plaintiff prove it? Who knows?

[PDaddy]

Some ageism in this thread...

Also, Bucky and Ducky aren't necessarily correct that age discrim isn't actionable in college admissions.. With a one second Google search:

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/qa-age.html

I actually think it is much more likely he was a yield protect though.. How many people with a 169 go to Baylor?

+1

Like I said. It's a hard case and a novel one, but that doesn't mean that it has no legs.

[dudders]

If you think about it, even if age was a protected status you could argue educating future leaders/workers who will get the most return on investment (youngs), is a compelling state interest. Or at least a rational basis.

Hell, I bet U.S. news rankings would survive RBR on the low GPA thing. IF that even mattered based on this case.

[sunynp]

I think there may be some ageism in this thread...

Also, I don't think posters are necessarily correct that age discrim isn't actionable in college admissions.. With a quick Google search:

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/qa-age.html

I actually think it is much more likely he was a yield protect though.. How many people with a 169 go to Baylor?

[Edited post for politeness; I get a little worked up over this topic, even though I think the guy was probably just yield protected and should just enjoy a better school elsewhere... But I don't know the facts--maybe he needs to stay in the area etc--and if he was discriminated against because he's older that sucks IMO).

Based on the actual facts given here:

He wasn't yield protect the THIRD time for the THIRD year in a row he applied. And after he had already complained about admission policies, I think they knew he would go if admitted.

But he doesn't just want to be admitted, he wants the full scholarship too. I think he has a very hard argument to make with that one. I don't think a judge is going to interfere with the criteria that a school sets for awarding full scholarships when those criteria are based on GPA. He didn't meet the GPA requirement, which is why he is trying to say he really did meet the GPA requirement because grading was so much harder back in the day.

This plaintiff doesn't want to go to any law school, he only wants to go to Baylor and he only wants to go to Baylor if he can go for free.

No way he wins this case. As I said, he WAS admitted but declined to go in the spring. He can't claim age bias when they did admit him. He can't get the scholarship because he doesn't meet the GPA cutoffs. No judge is going to look back to what a GPA in 1979 (or whenever) is equivalent to in 2012 GPA.

[BVest]

I'm surprised that everyone ITT seems willing to accept spring admission as equivalent to fall, or at least no one has stepped up to argue the lack of equivalence. Lack of 1L summer opportunities strikes me as a significant detriment to spring starts.

[Doorkeeper]

Baylor: Fighting the good fight against the SHITBOOMER hoard since 2012.

On a more related note, age discrimination =/= GPA-age discrimination. I don't know how one could logically connect the two in a sound manner.

[JCFindley]

Lets be clear on one thing: I AM black, and I am at least willing to look at this from other angles. No, age discrimination against...anyone, is not the same as race discrimination against black people. On this board, I am Mr. Black people! Lol. So don't get me twisted.

And on this board I AM the old guy and PDaddy is dead on IMO. Age discrimination is NOT the same thing as race discrimination.

The way he is pursuing the case has little merit in my view. "Well, back in MY day a 3.2 meant something!" Yeah yeah, and you walked uphill both ways in 110 degree heat just to get to school. A 3.2 is a 3.2 both then and now. Now, should he have got in with those numbers? Probably, but who knows what else he had on his app. Maybe he comes off as an arrogant jackass. There are all sorts of people with numbers above a schools average that don' get in.

I will say this, if he wins maybe I will sit out a year and send my 3.4 to HYS, with a note on how GREAT that GPA is oh and not only is it an old GPA but it was math and should be adjusted when compared against all those underwater yoga BAs with their modern day 4.0s.

[mr.hands]

No No No.

His defense is so number focused..he forgets the holistic part of the application process (or he forgets Baylor can always use that as an excuse for rejecting him)...whats the diff between this and a guy with a 4.0/180 filling a suit for being rejected from Yale?

Excellent point! It sounds exactly like the white students who argue against AA, LSAT boosts or adcoms giving greater weight to the softs of URM's.

Lol no. That's not at all like this

[CanadianWolf]

,Doesn't Baylor Law use an admissions index based solely on one's numbers ?
Or is the index just a part of the admissions considerations ?

Also, the Nance Scholarship was based on the admissions index number under which the plaintiff qualified for the scholarship, but was later changed to a minimum GPA of 3.4, then 3.6.

[sunynp]

,Doesn't Baylor Law use an admissions index based solely on one's numbers ?
Or is the index just a part of the admissions considerations ?

Also, the Nance Scholarship was based on the admissions index number under which the plaintiff qualified for the scholarship, but was later changed to a minimum GPA of 3.4, then 3.6.

I can't tell if he calculated his Baylor number using his actual 3.2 GPA or his imagined 3.6 GPA.

This part from the law.com article cracks me up:

Kamps seeks a seat in Baylor's fall class; that he be awarded the Nance scholarship, valued at $137,404; and that the court declare it unlawful to use undergraduate GPAs as an admission criterion "when the candidate pool comprises applicants from different academic generations."

I want to see a court order that undergraduate GPAs aren't usable as an admission criteria for law school. I'm finding this whole idea so laughable.

It is Baylor's own fault for sending out the email with everyone's numbers on it. This is one way of making them pay for that, even if indirectly.

[zanzbar]

No No No.

His defense is so number focused..he forgets the holistic part of the application process (or he forgets Baylor can always use that as an excuse for rejecting him)...whats the diff between this and a guy with a 4.0/180 filling a suit for being rejected from Yale?

Excellent point! It sounds exactly like the white students who argue against AA, LSAT boosts or adcoms giving greater weight to the softs of URM's.

Well it is kind of BS, but of course this is not the place to really talk about it since that issue gets buried in that AA thread. I had my laugh, I was on that notorious baylor spreadsheet so once I got denied for scholarship negotiations I decided I would send an email to the dean of the law school and I sincerely pointed out 15 URM on that sheet that had lower numbers then me and had received scholarship offers and asked for an explanation. It took me a few days to get a response so I must of had some butts really puckering.

[Nova]

No No No.

His defense is so number focused..he forgets the holistic part of the application process (or he forgets Baylor can always use that as an excuse for rejecting him)...whats the diff between this and a guy with a 4.0/180 filling a suit for being rejected from Yale?

Excellent point! It sounds exactly like the white students who argue against AA, LSAT boosts or adcoms giving greater weight to the softs of URM's.

Well it is kind of BS, but of course this is not the place to really talk about it since that issue gets buried in that AA thread. I had my laugh, I was on that notorious baylor spreadsheet so once I got denied for scholarship negotiations I decided I would send an email to the dean of the law school and I sincerely pointed out 15 URM on that sheet that had lower numbers then me and had received scholarship offers and asked for an explanation. It took me a few days to get a response so I must of had some butts really puckering.

What was their reply???

[dresden doll]

Saying an older person who happened to get dinged in an admissions cycle with slightly superior numbers is equivalent to separate but equal is disgusting.

+1.

[zanzbar]

No No No.

His defense is so number focused..he forgets the holistic part of the application process (or he forgets Baylor can always use that as an excuse for rejecting him)...whats the diff between this and a guy with a 4.0/180 filling a suit for being rejected from Yale?

Excellent point! It sounds exactly like the white students who argue against AA, LSAT boosts or adcoms giving greater weight to the softs of URM's.

Well it is kind of BS, but of course this is not the place to really talk about it since that issue gets buried in that AA thread. I had my laugh, I was on that notorious baylor spreadsheet so once I got denied for scholarship negotiations I decided I would send an email to the dean of the law school and I sincerely pointed out 15 URM on that sheet that had lower numbers then me and had received scholarship offers and asked for an explanation. It took me a few days to get a response so I must of had some butts really puckering.

What was their reply???

A lot of fluff but the real meat of it was

"Obviously, we cannot discuss the particular reasons why one person qualified for some type of scholarship award and another did not. We take full responsibility for our error in releasing the data regarding a portion of the fall entering class; however, we will not make matters worse by discussing information that is specific to any of our applicants. In fact, we encourage you to avoid using name-specific information about other applicants in any further communication with us or others. We do not want you to risk making a mistake like we did."

My favorite part was the last sentence when they pretty much told me I was no longer welcome at Baylor. "Whatever you decide about your future, we wish you the best as you pursue your legal education."