List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians Forum

[St.Remy]

The numbers won't impact the rankings because at this level it's mostly expenditure/capita and peer rep that decides the ranking. I'm just pointing out that numbers-wise Michigan and Berkeley are TTTs in decline.

As for rounding, why would you say that? Duke posted a 0.04 GPA bump and a 1 point LSAT bump after all. It seems weird to just single out NU for rounding...

I agree with your first point, Berkeley especially just doesn't make any sense to me as #7. I'm suspicious of the NU number increase because of the conventional logic that NU is a splitter haven, so long as you have some modicum of WE. If you're sub 3.3 or even 3.0 but have a good LSAT NU is always mentioned as a place to try for, and if this is true a 3.8 median seems extremely high. Also I'm naturally suspicious of huge increases. Duke increased an impressive but reasonable amount in two categories, but Northwestern's GPA just skyrocketed. I would be equally suspicious if Penn came out with a 2 or 3 point median jump and the same GPA (not exactly equivalent mind you but in the same vein).

Also a 3.8 just seems so suspiciously round.

[Fyre182]

[Calla Lily]

I'm not sure that this is even possible. Even with the upswing in LSAT takers over the past couple years the number of applicants who got a 175 or better is less than a thousand people (calculated based on the number of takers and a 175 being a top 99.4 percentile score). Even if we are assuming that every single person who got over a 175 decided on law school, a fact which I know firsthand is false, NYU would have to snatch up a huge proportion of the 175+ pie to get this statistic in place. Because of NYU's class size they would have to get over 10% of everyone who scored 175 or up, when Columbia, Harvard, and Yale has to take MORE than a third of the 175+ group to just maintain their averages. Is this possible? Yes. Is it possible to do that while also not sacrificing ANY average GPA? I don't think so unless some of the other schools see their 75th drop (A situation that I wouldn't cry over).

I am confused...aren't these stats for accepted students rather than students attending? If that is the case, then it could certainly be possible that NYU accepted people with higher LSATs, even though those students may have not chosen to go to NYU.

Also, I ran a search in LSN for 173 and 3.7 GPA and up for NYU. There were something like 25 acceptances, 2 rejections, 4 waitlists, and 6 or so pending. Of course, those on LSN may not be representative of the overall pool of applicants with those scores that applied there, but I think you 173s will be alright. You have the wisdom of TLS on your side, afterall.

[St.Remy]

No, class profile is attending students. There are no official stats for accepted students that I'm aware of.

[Dany]

I'm not sure that this is even possible. Even with the upswing in LSAT takers over the past couple years the number of applicants who got a 175 or better is less than a thousand people (calculated based on the number of takers and a 175 being a top 99.4 percentile score). Even if we are assuming that every single person who got over a 175 decided on law school, a fact which I know firsthand is false, NYU would have to snatch up a huge proportion of the 175+ pie to get this statistic in place. Because of NYU's class size they would have to get over 10% of everyone who scored 175 or up, when Columbia, Harvard, and Yale has to take MORE than a third of the 175+ group to just maintain their averages. Is this possible? Yes. Is it possible to do that while also not sacrificing ANY average GPA? I don't think so unless some of the other schools see their 75th drop (A situation that I wouldn't cry over).

I am confused...aren't these stats for accepted students rather than students attending? If that is the case, then it could certainly be possible that NYU accepted people with higher LSATs, even though those students may have not chosen to go to NYU.

Also, I ran a search in LSN for 173 and 3.7 GPA and up for NYU. There were something like 25 acceptances, 2 rejections, 4 waitlists, and 6 or so pending. Of course, those on LSN may not be representative of the overall pool of applicants with those scores that applied there, but I think you 173s will be alright. You have the wisdom of TLS on your side, afterall.

Nope, the median numbers are for the incoming class of 1Ls (the class of 2013.)

[Calla Lily]

Is the ABA data based on attending also?

Still, if there are 476 students attending NYU, that means that roughly 119 of them got a 175 or higher. Based on the numbers cited before for how many overall got a 175 or above on the LSAT, it does seem possible that NYU could get 119.

Also, I think the shift would scare me more for potential implications for HYSCC, rather than NYU itself, since it could have been that those with the higher scores chose NYU because they were not admitted to HYSCC. It could also be that people chose to take scholarship money over sticker or liked NYU better. Knowing the why behind it would help more to determine if there were a reason to worry. I guess we will know more when HYSCC publish their numbers.

[St.Remy]

Is the ABA data based on attending also?
...
Also, I think the shift would scare me more for potential implications for HYSCC, rather than NYU itself, since it could have been that those with the higher scores chose NYU because they were not admitted to HYSCC. It could also be that people chose to take scholarship money over sticker or liked NYU better. Knowing the why behind it would help more to determine if there were a reason to worry. I guess we will know more when HYSCC publish their numbers.

Yes ABA is also based on attending. If NYU's numbers are accurate it doesn't really make me scared for HYSCC, because if NYU is taking such a huge chunk of the 3.7+/175+ pool I can't imagine that those other schools would have been able to garner enough to substantially improve their stats. There just aren't enough 175s+ out there for HYCC to improve their LSAT medians and 75ths much more without hurting GPA (Stanford could if they wanted to, but they don't).

Also more numbers:
Temple 2010 GPA: 3.26-3.49-3.70 LSAT: 161-163-165
Temple 2009 GPA: 3.11-3.41-3.61 LSAT: 159-161-163

According to --LinkRemoved--
vs. http://officialguide.lsac.org/Release/S ... BA2906.pdf

This shows huge gains on everything. I continue to be skeptical.

[Knock]

NYU's median jumping to 172 scares me. A lot.

Edit after reading thread:

Jesus Christ.

I didn't think I had to worry too much about CCN with a 173. Color me worried.

This, although switch 173 to a 171 for me. Definitely adds to the retake argument for me, lol.

[im_blue]

Is the ABA data based on attending also?
...
Also, I think the shift would scare me more for potential implications for HYSCC, rather than NYU itself, since it could have been that those with the higher scores chose NYU because they were not admitted to HYSCC. It could also be that people chose to take scholarship money over sticker or liked NYU better. Knowing the why behind it would help more to determine if there were a reason to worry. I guess we will know more when HYSCC publish their numbers.

Yes ABA is also based on attending. If NYU's numbers are accurate it doesn't really make me scared for HYSCC, because if NYU is taking such a huge chunk of the 3.7+/175+ pool I can't imagine that those other schools would have been able to garner enough to substantially improve their stats. There just aren't enough 175s+ out there for HYCC to improve their LSAT medians and 75ths much more without hurting GPA (Stanford could if they wanted to, but they don't).

Also more numbers:
Temple 2010 GPA: 3.26-3.49-3.70 LSAT: 161-163-165
Temple 2009 GPA: 3.11-3.41-3.61 LSAT: 159-161-163

According to --LinkRemoved--
vs. http://officialguide.lsac.org/Release/S ... BA2906.pdf

This shows huge gains on everything. I continue to be skeptical.

The Temple link shows numbers for accepted applicants, hence the huge "gains".

[St.Remy]

Oops my bad, though in my defense I've never seen a school list "accepted" statistics before. Seems sort of pointless except to surprise the schmucks like me who only skimmed the page.

[kazu]

Hmm has anyone noticed that, if you click on "LSAC Resources Data" below Current Data and Statistics on the (newly upgraded) lsac.org site, the # of applicants was at its height during 2002~2005, and about 10,000 more per year than the last application cycle (about 100,000 ABA applicants in fall 2005 as opposed to 86,600 last year)? Was there a significant median bump then as well?

I don't think the median jumps we are seeing now are solely due either to an increase in total applicants over the past 2 years or to numbers-gaming on the part of schools. IIRC it was just in the past few years that LSAC decided to calculate schools' LSAT medians using applicants' highest scores rather than their average scores, and that's when most schools chose not to average in evaluative review. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) I think much of the median increases taking place over the past few years simply reflect the resulting, increasing tendency of strong applicants to restest, creating a broader availability of top scores. In fact, the data posted by LSAC shows that in the late 2000s when the number of applicants was declining, the number of tests administered per applicant increased.

Yeah that makes sense.

I still can't believe NYU's 75% jumped 2 points though

[IAFG]

lol @ berkeley, on just so many levels

[paralegal]

Has the amount of applicants really risen enough to justify these rising medians?

Aug. 31, 2010 - Duke Law News

"This year, we received over 7,900 applications. Admission to Duke was so competitive this year that, for the first time in recent history, the Law School could not extend admission to any student on the waitlist. Applications for admission in 2010 were 25 percent higher than in 2009, and the admission rate was a record low 13.2 percent."

[Nulli Secundus]

Aug. 31, 2010 - Duke Law News

"This year, we received over 7,900 applications. Admission to Duke was so competative this year that, for the first time in recent history, the Law School could not extend admission to any student on the waitlist. Applications for admission in 2010 were 25 percent higher than in 2009, and the admission rate was a record low 13.2 percent."

Did not get a particularly good impression about Duke from that!

[Dany]

BUMMER. I love posting pics/memes.

[sophia.olive]

Aug. 31, 2010 - Duke Law News

"This year, we received over 7,900 applications. Admission to Duke was so competative this year that, for the first time in recent history, the Law School could not extend admission to any student on the waitlist. Applications for admission in 2010 were 25 percent higher than in 2009, and the admission rate was a record low 13.2 percent."

Did not get a particularly good impression about Duke from that!

Duke is so off-putting..

[paralegal]

Sorry about that.... that was my typo....not Duke's. In their publication, obviously, it was spelled correctly. I've corrected my prior post.

[sophia.olive]

Sorry about that.... that was my typo....not Duke's. In their publication, obviously, it was spelled correctly. I've corrected my prior post.

What?!?!?! I just deleted my application on lsac....

[im_blue]

Cardozo: 3.62 / 164
W&L: 3.43 / 166

[im_blue]

Penn 25th/75th
2010:
3.56 / 3.90
166 / 171
6,022 apps (2.9% decrease)

2009:
3.57 / 3.90
166 / 171
6,205 apps

http://www.law.upenn.edu/prospective/jd ... stics.html

So Penn's median LSAT almost certainly stayed at 170, and their median GPA like around the same as well.

[$1.99]

what is a better reference number for chances? the 25th and 75th percentiles or the median numbers?

[im_blue]

what is a better reference number for chances? the 25th and 75th percentiles or the median numbers?

Definitely the medians, since those are reported to ABA and used by US News.

[Grizz]

what is a better reference number for chances? the 25th and 75th percentiles or the median numbers?

Medians

[Triangles]

St. John's
3.55/161 median

[nyyankees]

wustl: 3.7 167