2018 USNWR Rankings Forum

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

Do you want to get a high paying job @ V100?
Top 10 by % of graduates placed at the V100.

Source: National Law Journal - The TOP 10 - 2017


Rank Law school % OF 2016 GRADUATES AT THE LARGEST 100 FIRMS
1 Columbia Law School 57.07%
2 University of Chicago Law School 48.84%
3 Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law 47.58%
4 Cornell Law School 47.54%
5 New York University School of Law 47.42%
6 Duke Law School 45.50%
7 University of Virginia School of Law 44.85%
8 University of Pennsylvania Law School 43.80%
9 Harvard Law School 42.81%
10 Stanford Law School 39.34%

I am going for big law, so this is what I care about.

I really don't care if my friends/neighbors don't know about the law school i will attend. I want to attend a law school where most of the graduating class got a high paying job @ big law firms.

Those numbers are somewhat misleading, though. It isn't the percentage of students who could do biglaw if they wanted to; it's the percentage of students who choose to do biglaw. If your goal is a high paying job, YLS should definitely still be in your top 10--the fact that a bunch of your peers will go off to become professors and judges or run the ACLU or whatever doesn't affect your odds of landing biglaw.

+1

[A. Nony Mouse]

This thread reminds me of the NY to 180 thread.

[Veil of Ignorance]

Kind of unfair that LACs can't have lay prestige.

In some circles SWAP (Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, Pomona) are very prestigious, on the same level at HYSP. I don't assume this is the case in most circle, though.

"SWAP"? It's like Georgetown trying to make T14 happen. Amherst has more lay recognition than Williams but to anyone that knows anything about LACs, Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore are on their own. Since this is a USNWR thread: Pomona ranks 7.

I won't comment past here b/c we're on TLS, but at least where I'm from, among the types who read The Fiske Guide to Colleges, SWAP is real. USNWR ranks Pomona low, however my acquaintances who go there there tend to note that the Forbes ranking often puts it at #1 or #2. Go to Harvard if you want to impressive folks, though.

[BVest]

Next year there needs to be a rankings release live stream done like the release of the College Football Playoff

ESPN would jump at it in a heartbeat, but they'd spend the bulk of the time on irrelevant mini-features about how good lawyers can come out of nowhere.

[cavalier1138]

This thread reminds me of the NY to 180 thread.

Since you're around, can you set a filter that auto-corrects "GULC" to drop the "GU"? It's quite clear that it has lost the right to keep the "LC" on its name after this.

[goldenbear2020]

Do you want to get a high paying job @ V100?
Top 10 by % of graduates placed at the V100.

Source: National Law Journal - The TOP 10 - 2017


Rank Law school % OF 2016 GRADUATES AT THE LARGEST 100 FIRMS
1 Columbia Law School 57.07%
2 University of Chicago Law School 48.84%
3 Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law 47.58%
4 Cornell Law School 47.54%
5 New York University School of Law 47.42%
6 Duke Law School 45.50%
7 University of Virginia School of Law 44.85%
8 University of Pennsylvania Law School 43.80%
9 Harvard Law School 42.81%
10 Stanford Law School 39.34%

I am going for big law, so this is what I care about.

I really don't care if my friends/neighbors don't know about the law school i will attend. I want to attend a law school where most of the graduating class got a high paying job @ big law firms.

Those numbers are somewhat misleading, though. It isn't the percentage of students who could do biglaw if they wanted to; it's the percentage of students who choose to do biglaw. If your goal is a high paying job, YLS should definitely still be in your top 10--the fact that a bunch of your peers will go off to become professors and judges or run the ACLU or whatever doesn't affect your odds of landing biglaw.

If you divide these numbers by the BL% for each school, wouldn't that give a pretty good picture of "top tier BL" placement strength?

[whysooseriousbiglaw]

Do you want to get a high paying job @ V100?
Top 10 by % of graduates placed at the V100.

Source: National Law Journal - The TOP 10 - 2017


Rank Law school % OF 2016 GRADUATES AT THE LARGEST 100 FIRMS
1 Columbia Law School 57.07%
2 University of Chicago Law School 48.84%
3 Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law 47.58%
4 Cornell Law School 47.54%
5 New York University School of Law 47.42%
6 Duke Law School 45.50%
7 University of Virginia School of Law 44.85%
8 University of Pennsylvania Law School 43.80%
9 Harvard Law School 42.81%
10 Stanford Law School 39.34%

I am going for big law, so this is what I care about.

I really don't care if my friends/neighbors don't know about the law school i will attend. I want to attend a law school where most of the graduating class got a high paying job @ big law firms.

Those numbers are somewhat misleading, though. It isn't the percentage of students who could do biglaw if they wanted to; it's the percentage of students who choose to do biglaw. If your goal is a high paying job, YLS should definitely still be in your top 10--the fact that a bunch of your peers will go off to become professors and judges or run the ACLU or whatever doesn't affect your odds of landing biglaw.

If you divide these numbers by the BL% for each school, wouldn't that give a pretty good picture of "top tier BL" placement strength?

No, should be top 250 firms plus fed clerkships. V100 is a meaningless distinction.

[BVest]

Kind of unfair that LACs can't have lay prestige.

In some circles SWAP (Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, Pomona) are very prestigious, on the same level at HYSP. I don't assume this is the case in most circle, though.

"SWAP"? It's like Georgetown trying to make T14 happen. Amherst has more lay recognition than Williams but to anyone that knows anything about LACs, Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore are on their own. Since this is a USNWR thread: Pomona ranks 7.

Going in relative order, though, makes it very difficult to avoid using "WASP."

[cron1834]

TudoBem is full of fail, just let him be.

[A. Nony Mouse]

But WASP would be so appropriate.

[cavalier1138]

If you divide these numbers by the BL% for each school, wouldn't that give a pretty good picture of "top tier BL" placement strength?

Why do people keep confusing the relative size of biglaw firms with their perceived strength?

All firms (for the most part) pay the same scale. They all do basically the same work. Trying to parse biglaw job outcomes at a specific school is just pointless.

[goldenbear2020]

Kind of unfair that LACs can't have lay prestige.

In some circles SWAP (Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, Pomona) are very prestigious, on the same level at HYSP. I don't assume this is the case in most circle, though.

"SWAP"? It's like Georgetown trying to make T14 happen. Amherst has more lay recognition than Williams but to anyone that knows anything about LACs, Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore are on their own. Since this is a USNWR thread: Pomona ranks 7.

Going in relative order, though, makes it very difficult to avoid using "WASP."

+1. WASP is the clear pecking order among the top 4 LACs.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

Next year there needs to be a rankings release live stream done like the release of the College Football Playoff

ESPN would jump at it in a heartbeat, but they'd spend the bulk of the time on irrelevant mini-features about how good lawyers can come out of nowhere.

Jay Bilas' Best Sleeper Pick in this Year's USNWR Rankings:

People's College of Law

Strengths:
- Location in the heart of LA.
- Politically Far-Left School (almost Socialist) in a increasingly polarized society.
- Former Mayor of Los Angeles is an alumnus.
- Tremendous Volunteer/Social Justice Programs

Weakness:
- Unaccredited
- Everything else

Jalen Rose's Current T14 (or T13) Comparison:

University of California, Berkeley School of Law

[BVest]

But WASP would be so appropriate.

Though perhaps a bit too appropriate for those actually associated with the schools.

[BoyJord]

Next year there needs to be a rankings release live stream done like the release of the College Football Playoff

ESPN would jump at it in a heartbeat, but they'd spend the bulk of the time on irrelevant mini-features about how good lawyers can come out of nowhere.

+1

[vcap180]

It's odd how we all know that these rankings are meaningless, and yet we still care deeply about them. You can pretend like you don't care, but you do.

[Learned Throw Hands]

It's odd how we all know that these rankings are meaningless, and yet we still care deeply about them. You can pretend like you don't care, but you do.

From a consumer standpoint it's important that we shit on schools to deter them from letting certain standards decline but also realize that small fluctuations from year to year shouldn't really impact our decision in picking schools.

[Moneytrees]

A couple years go TLS went crazy when Emory cracked the T20, this year ND did and cares lol.

[baseballfan660]

Sports do bring money and money gives a school flexibility. Compare Michigan to NYU. Both schools started back in the early 1800's. Michigan's endowment is $9.7 billion while NYU's is $3.4 billion. A startling difference. Love em or hate em jock alums support their schools. Michigan's annual sports revenue is $160 million. The Ivy's started as a sports conference. Harvard endowment $37 billion Yale $25 billion.

Actually Michigan sports ran a 250 million dollar defecit this .edu/articles/athletics-presents-fiscal-year-2017-budget

" budget saw lower-than-budgeted spectator admissions in basketball and non-conference ice hockey contests as well as higher-than-budgeted costs in student financial aid and team and game expenses. Those items were offset partially by lower-than-expected facility expenses and other budget management initiatives."

Yahoo says otherwise http://sports.yahoo.com/video/michigan- ... 20973.html

[Moneytrees]

I don't get how rinky dink iowa is T20.

same

Iowa has a 89.1% bar passage rate and only 5.5% of its students unemployed according to its ABA employment report. Meanwhile, Notre Dame, which it shares its ranking with, has a 84.5% bar passage rate and 12.3% of its students are unemployed. Iowa's better placement statistics probably make up for its lagging LSAT median (161) and median GPA (3.61). Also, two other stats probably help bridge the gap. First, Iowa's law library is huge (I want to say its only smaller than Harvard's in size of collection), which accounts for like 0.5% of the rankings. Second, Iowa's student faculty is 8.7:1 according to US News, which puts it at one of the smallest in the country.

This is like the 3rd post questioning Iowa's placement, and I have no clue why. It's pretty easy to explain.

Iowa is a solid regional school. It has no business being in the T20 tbh.

[TudoBem]

TudoBem is full of fail, just let him be.

Tks!

[Gitaroo_Dude]

Next year there needs to be a rankings release live stream done like the release of the College Football Playoff

ESPN would jump at it in a heartbeat, but they'd spend the bulk of the time on irrelevant mini-features about how good lawyers can come out of nowhere.

Jay Bilas' Best Sleeper Pick in this Year's USNWR Rankings:

People's College of Law

Strengths:
- Location in the heart of LA.
- Politically Far-Left School (almost Socialist) in a increasingly polarized society.
- Former Mayor of Los Angeles is an alumnus.
- Tremendous Volunteer/Social Justice Programs

Weakness:
- Unaccredited
- Everything else

Jalen Rose's Current T14 (or T13) Comparison:

University of California, Berkeley School of Law

This is good.

[michlaw]

Sports do bring money and money gives a school flexibility. Compare Michigan to NYU. Both schools started back in the early 1800's. Michigan's endowment is $9.7 billion while NYU's is $3.4 billion. A startling difference. Love em or hate em jock alums support their schools. Michigan's annual sports revenue is $160 million. The Ivy's started as a sports conference. Harvard endowment $37 billion Yale $25 billion.

Actually Michigan sports ran a 250 million dollar defecit this .edu/articles/athletics-presents-fiscal-year-2017-budget

" budget saw lower-than-budgeted spectator admissions in basketball and non-conference ice hockey contests as well as higher-than-budgeted costs in student financial aid and team and game expenses. Those items were offset partially by lower-than-expected facility expenses and other budget management initiatives."

Yahoo says otherwise http://sports.yahoo.com/video/michigan- ... 20973.html

As we all know lawyers can't do numbers (if we could we would have gone to business school). The USA is 20 trillion dollars in debt and and if you count unfunded liabilities about 100 trillion dollars in debt. That doesn't mean than the budget of the US shows those liabilities annually. The assumption/accounting looks at the US GDP of 17 trillion dollars and believes that the debt is manageable/acceptable. In fact during the last 8 years the debt has doubled and people view that as just fine. Michigan has debt on it's athletic facilities. That is not at all the same as their program last year lost 250 million dollars.

[Hikikomorist]

Real question: Does NYU really not have a lot of lay prestige outside of the Northeast? In the northeast it has a ton of it (at least im my experience).

Always seemed like it was on the level (and East Coast equivalent) of USC.

[Hikikomorist]

Kind of unfair that LACs can't have lay prestige.

In some circles SWAP (Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, Pomona) are very prestigious, on the same level at HYSP. I don't assume this is the case in most circle, though.

"SWAP"? It's like Georgetown trying to make T14 happen. Amherst has more lay recognition than Williams but to anyone that knows anything about LACs, Williams, Amherst, and Swarthmore are on their own. Since this is a USNWR thread: Pomona ranks 7.

Ranking of tier 1 LAC acronyms:
PAWS
WASP
SWAP

Not that it matters, though, because LACs have no lay prestige.