C/O 2017 Median LSAT/GPA/Class Size Forum

[03152016]

wow irvine
shameless

[Julius]

When he told the entering class that applications to Davis were up Dean Johnson forgot to mention that Davis got rid of its $75 application fee for this past cycle.

Also, Hastings got a total of 3100 applications. That's down 21% from last year and nearly 50% from more than 6000 in 2009.

Other totals:

UCLA down 2.8%

Berkeley down 4.2%

Santa Clara down 14%

Golden Gate down 14%

San Francisco down 15.6%

McGeorge down 26.6%

Whitter down 13.3%

San Diego down 11.5%

Don't have numbers for the other California ABA schools.

Pepperdine was up 20% from the cycle prior for apps, but like Davis the application was free

USC was up almost 10% but they too got rid of the app fee late in the cycle I think(not sure here). Stanford is probably up given that we had an increase in app from 170 LSAT++ category. Still no word on Irvine, Loyola. Loyola probably got killed like Hastings, no clue on Irvine. I heard Irvine was asking people to retake in July to boost their scores because they will be ranked on US news for the first time.

Shameless and dumb, if true (sounds Irvinish).

If you're a kid stuck heading to UC-Irvine and you get a 173 on your July LSAT, what do you do? At worst you haggle for more scholarship money and at best you sit out the cycle and try to head to school that offers a decent prospect of employment as a lawyer upon graduation.

[MikeJD]

When he told the entering class that applications to Davis were up Dean Johnson forgot to mention that Davis got rid of its $75 application fee for this past cycle.

Also, Hastings got a total of 3100 applications. That's down 21% from last year and nearly 50% from more than 6000 in 2009.

Other totals:

UCLA down 2.8%

Berkeley down 4.2%

Santa Clara down 14%

Golden Gate down 14%

San Francisco down 15.6%

McGeorge down 26.6%

Whitter down 13.3%

San Diego down 11.5%

Don't have numbers for the other California ABA schools.

Pepperdine was up 20% from the cycle prior for apps, but like Davis the application was free

USC was up almost 10% but they too got rid of the app fee late in the cycle I think(not sure here). Stanford is probably up given that we had an increase in app from 170 LSAT++ category. Still no word on Irvine, Loyola. Loyola probably got killed like Hastings, no clue on Irvine. I heard Irvine was asking people to retake in July to boost their scores because they will be ranked on US news for the first time.

Shameless and dumb, if true (sounds Irvinish).

If you're a kid stuck heading to UC-Irvine and you get a 173 on your July LSAT, what do you do? At worst you haggle for more scholarship money and at best you sit out the cycle and try to head to school that offers a decent prospect of employment as a lawyer upon graduation.

It's probably what others have done, I think Spivey mentioned something in that regard as well.

[03152016]

i forget what formula they use to calculate the usnwr rankings
but i hope they take into account irvine's outrageous 27.4 underemployment rate
i mean that's shocking, almost 3 out of every 10 grads

a small sample of schools with a lower underemployment rate than irvine
•john marshall
•southwestern
•catholic
•pace
•northern kentucky
•barry
•quinnipiac

[MikeJD]

i forget what formula they use to calculate the usnwr rankings
but i hope they take into account irvine's outrageous 27.4 underemployment rate
i mean that's shocking, almost 3 out of every 10 grads

a small sample of schools with a lower underemployment rate than irvine
•john marshall
•southwestern
•catholic
•pace
•northern kentucky
•barry
•quinnipiac

yeah Irvine's employment was poor despite very small class, and they will probably have similar medians as last year. Given that I still think they will be ranked in the 20-25 range because of very small class size and strong faculty(I think they will score well on peer reviews but I'm not sure). They also had bad bar passage rate.

[ms9]

I have no heard, in rapid succession from three different sources, that WUSTL held 166.

*It could be a feedback loop, ie one person heard from the same person etc., but interesting.

[whitespider]

Wow, if thats true, then their deferment offers must have really paid off. Makes me wonder how they won't be totally screwed next year, though.

[chuckbass]

I also heard that the GPA went up

[MikeJD]

Congrats to WUSTL but I take it they have a HUGE spread between their median and the 25th.

[03152016]

Congrats to WUSTL but I take it they have a HUGE spread between their median and the 25th.

smart
they're playing the game
penn does the same thing

[MikeJD]

On the other hand if they maintained their LSAT median and increased its GPA median, they would have made their numbers public so what's the holdup?

[BentleyLittle]

I heard Irvine was asking people to retake in July to boost their scores because they will be ranked on US news for the first time.

Where did you hear this from? I go to UCI and I literally have not heard one person in our class mention that the administration asked them to do this. We have a small class so I'm pretty sure this would have gotten around by now if true.

[MikeJD]

I heard Irvine was asking people to retake in July to boost their scores because they will be ranked on US news for the first time.

Where did you hear this from? I go to UCI and I literally have not heard one person in our class mention that the administration asked them to do this. We have a small class so I'm pretty sure this would have gotten around by now if true.

I read on the forum here but nothing more than that. Don't know for sure at all.

[MikeJD]

Congrats to WUSTL but I take it they have a HUGE spread between their median and the 25th.

smart
they're playing the game
penn does the same thing

YEah Penn is weird. Why such an elite school needs to admit so many splits is beyond me , I think it compromises the quality of their student body.

[whitespider]

Just perused my way through some of the WUSTL 2017 pages and it does look like the people offered deferments were under LSAT and GPA medians. So, i guess thats one way to keep your medians up.

I would think that would be suicide for next year's class, BUT in addition to deferments, it seems they were also offering some guaranteed 2L transfers in with schollys for under-median admits. So, if many people took them up on that, maybe they'll escape unscathed.

That seems like a REALLY sleazy way to manipulate rankings, though.

[chuckbass]

Congrats to WUSTL but I take it they have a HUGE spread between their median and the 25th.

smart
they're playing the game
penn does the same thing

Yeah I mean it's a school known for splitters. I don't think the 25th would have dropped though.

[eriedoctrine]

Just perused my way through some of the WUSTL 2017 pages and it does look like the people offered deferments were under LSAT and GPA medians. So, i guess thats one way to keep your medians up.

I would think that would be suicide for next year's class, BUT in addition to deferments, it seems they were also offering some guaranteed 2L transfers in with schollys for under-median admits. So, if many people took them up on that, maybe they'll escape unscathed.

That seems like a REALLY sleazy way to manipulate rankings, though.

If you wanna survive in these rankings, you gotta play the game. It's paying off for WUSTL, and will continue doing so.

Totting itself as a top-20 ranked law school in its website and videos, they'll be damned if they fall out of the top 20.
http://i.imgur.com/BvkwuN6.png

WUSTL and others aims for T20 since usnews displays the T20 (rather than T14) in their articles, further boosting a recognized national "prestige".
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... hools-2015

Keep in mind they just got a new dean, and it'll also reflect poorly on her if the school's ranking dropped during her first year.
They still could offer "fellowship" programs like W&M, GW, GULC, Emory, etc... Wonder why they haven't really done that yet? WUSTL's rich as hell.

Also, WUSTL's really trying to be more national. BU, BC, and Fordham have been dropping in the rankings because the university as whole is probably not as invested in the law school and also because no matter their ranking, they'll always content with being the regional champion, of Boston, NYC, etc. Even if their ranking slides, local firms would probably not really care, e.g. Boston College.

I personally think it'll pay off in the long run. I already have 7 screeners and 3 CBs from big firms in Boston from WUSTL, comparable to my friend at BC with similar grades. Unlike him however, I also received comparable amounts in Chicago, NY, and a few in DC. During the interview when BU/BC alumni interviewers asked me why I wanted to return to Boston but attended WUSTL, I told because of their financial aid package. Then they say, true, WUSTL's also a better school. I asked, why do you say that? They told me due to the rankings. I was like, eh, they're about the same, you can't really trust the rankings. The guy was like, haha, alright.

[reasonable person]

Not at WUSTL, but it's a great school that's striving to be more national, in both UG and law/professional.
Heard from a few biz/law friends that WUSTL is trying to get their business and law schools to be closer ranked with UG, and hopefully the med school and health programs.
The university chancellor is supporting them in this endeavor and they're pouring vast amounts of resources into making this happen over the next decade.

[ms9]

Not at WUSTL, but it's a great school that's striving to be more national, in both UG and law/professional.
Heard from a few biz/law friends that WUSTL is trying to get their business and law schools to be closer ranked with UG, and hopefully the med school and health programs.
The university chancellor is supporting them in this endeavor and they're pouring vast amounts of resources into making this happen over the next decade.

I could go on about this for days, 50% of which is true.

[foles]

.

[reasonable person]

Not at WUSTL, but it's a great school that's striving to be more national, in both UG and law/professional.
Heard from a few biz/law friends that WUSTL is trying to get their business and law schools to be closer ranked with UG, and hopefully the med school and health programs.
The university chancellor is supporting them in this endeavor and they're pouring vast amounts of resources into making this happen over the next decade.

I could go on about this for days, 50% of which is true.

Please do. It sounds fascinating

I know NOTHING compared to the almighty Spivey!

[reasonable person]

TTT time:
http://www.mcgeorge.edu/News/Pacific_Mc ... d_2018.htm
156 students
151 LSAT (down from 154!!)
3.14 (down from 3.24)

Looks like the pain is trickling down...

Ok now we're having some fun.

Is it just me or do these people look really depressed for an orientation.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pacificmc ... 061486559/

[Hand]

TTT time:
http://www.mcgeorge.edu/News/Pacific_Mc ... d_2018.htm
156 students
151 LSAT (down from 154!!)
3.14 (down from 3.24)

Looks like the pain is trickling down...

Ok now we're having some fun.

Is it just me or do these people look really depressed for an orientation.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pacificmc ... 061486559/

Wowzers. Note though that while there doesn't appear to be any booze, everybody does seem to cheer up a little at the reception outside

[vicpin5190]

Post removed.

[ms9]

Not at WUSTL, but it's a great school that's striving to be more national, in both UG and law/professional.
Heard from a few biz/law friends that WUSTL is trying to get their business and law schools to be closer ranked with UG, and hopefully the med school and health programs.
The university chancellor is supporting them in this endeavor and they're pouring vast amounts of resources into making this happen over the next decade.

I could go on about this for days, 50% of which is true.

Please do. It sounds fascinating

Well, to be fair I left WUSTL in 2011, so I should say "at least 50% of which I know is true"

WUSTL is a really good school. It also aspires to get better in law and business, although that also strikes me as a bit like the line in Fight Club "Let's take Fight Club up a notch!" ..well..ummm...yea of course.

What I would say is while I was there, I was placed by my boss on the University Council. That meant once a month I, and other mealy-mouthed deans like myself, got to hear from and meet with Wrighton. I would say that at that time, while the moral support was certainly for us (and he was good at that), the financial support was very much pushed to central university and the med school. Indeed, of the 3 schools I have worked at, WUSTL central was the least fiscally supportive of the grad schools. Again though, things could have changed a ton and there are some things I can't share and others I'm sure I wasn't privy to.