2018 USNWR Rankings Forum

[votebuilder1]

Re: Lay prestige (lay=non-lawyers; "people on the street") in the Midwest. Here's my approx. ranking --

Harvard
Yale
UChicago
Northwestern
Michigan
Duke
Cornell
Stanford
Penn
Berkeley
NYU
Columbia (people think it is Columbia College Chicago)
UVA

Not commenting on Texas or Georgetown, although Georgetown is more well-known b/t the two.

I'm in the Midwest and, in my experience, Georgetown has a ton of lay prestige. It's weirdly the school my non-lawyer family, friends, and coworkers are most impressed by.

Georgetown has a ton of lay prestige - I am just not commenting on that school given that I do not want to have to type in "EDIT: T13".

Uh oh, I just did it.

[dietcoke1]

"people on the streets" lay prestige on the west coast in my approximation

Harvard
Yale
Stanford
UC Berkeley / UCLA
Duke / Michigan / USC (for the sports)
Penn (state) / UT (for famous Rose Bowl appearences)
Columbia / Georgetown
U Chi / NU/ Cornell / NYU
UVA (no one I know has ever heard of Charlottesville and they don't know why anyone would ever want to go there)

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

Real question: Does NYU really not have a lot of lay prestige outside of the Northeast? In the northeast it has a ton of it (at least im my experience).

NYU is known as a decent school but people are more impressed that you're going to school in NYC than that you're going to NYU. Stern seems to have a lot of lay prestige in the northeast. I've heard tons of people say w/r/t b-school that Wharton is #1 and Stern is #2.

NYU Law as its own entity isn't well known: "Oh NYU Law. Isn't their law school campus in Tribeca?"

2 most-frequently-asked questions about NYU/NYU Law:

1. Isn't that the state school in New York?
2. *Questions that mistake NYU with NYLS*

[Bunbury]

I'm interested to know why William & Mary fell 8 spots.

+1 I know this isn't probably top of mind for everyone but any insight would be super appreciated.

I grew up in the DC area and William & Mary had a really good rep overall so I'm honestly surprised to see it fall so far behind GW and W&L.

[spqr351]

"people on the streets" lay prestige on the west coast in my approximation

Harvard
Yale
Stanford
UC Berkeley / UCLA
Duke / Michigan / USC (for the sports)
Penn (state) / UT (for famous Rose Bowl appearences)
Columbia / Georgetown
U Chi / NU/ Cornell / NYU
UVA (no one I know has ever heard of Charlottesville and they don't know why anyone would ever want to go there)

This is accurate, except nobody has ever heard of NU or NYU. I'd insert [state's] flagship school somewhere around Penn/UT. Try telling somebody in Utah that UT-Austin is more prestigious than BYU and you'll get a laugh. Same with ASU in Arizona, or UW in Washington.

I'm not saying that ASU is equal to UT--far from it--but John Q. Smallbusinessowner who's been a Sun Devil fan his whole life won't agree.

[Learned Throw Hands]

lol @ Iowa ranked #20.

[dbalkaran]

NYU does not have lay prestige where I'm from. I mean, if by "lay prestige," you mean "lay prestige among a certain class of highly educated person," then Penn and Cornell and the other ivies definitely have it beat, just because people tend to know a little bit about how good a school's UG program is and extrapolate from there. If you mean "lay prestige among actual laypeople on average," then everything below Princeton Law School is basically a wash.

I don't think it helps that in New York, at least from my experiences, people from NYU tend to be really weird and lots of people see it as an uber-liberal, artsy school.

[TudoBem]

Do you want to get a high paying job @ V100?
Top 10 by % of graduates placed at the V100.

Source: National Law Journal - The TOP 10 - 2017


Rank Law school % OF 2016 GRADUATES AT THE LARGEST 100 FIRMS
1 Columbia Law School 57.07%
2 University of Chicago Law School 48.84%
3 Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law 47.58%
4 Cornell Law School 47.54%
5 New York University School of Law 47.42%
6 Duke Law School 45.50%
7 University of Virginia School of Law 44.85%
8 university of pennsylvania law school 43.80%
9 Harvard Law School 42.81%
10 Stanford Law School 39.34%

I am going for big law, so this is what I care about.

I really don't care if my friends/neighbors don't know about the law school i will attend. I want to attend a law school where most of the graduating class got a high paying job @ big law firms.

[cavalier1138]

Do you want to get a high paying job @ V100?
Top 10 by % of graduates placed at the V100.

Source: National Law Journal - The TOP 10 - 2017


Rank Law school % OF 2016 GRADUATES AT THE LARGEST 100 FIRMS
1 Columbia Law School 57.07%
2 University of Chicago Law School 48.84%
3 Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law 47.58%
4 Cornell Law School 47.54%
5 New York University School of Law 47.42%
6 Duke Law School 45.50%
7 University of Virginia School of Law 44.85%
8 University of Pennsylvania Law School 43.80%
9 Harvard Law School 42.81%
10 Stanford Law School 39.34%

I am going for big law, so this is what I care about.

I really don't care if my friends/neighbors don't know about the law school i will attend. I want to attend a law school where most of the graduating class got a high paying job @ big law firms.

V100 is not the 100 largest firms. Try again.

[Veil of Ignorance]

Kind of unfair that LACs can't have lay prestige.

In some circles SWAP (Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, Pomona) are very prestigious, on the same level at HYSP. I don't assume this is the case in most circle, though.

[LawBuckeye12]

Next year there needs to be a rankings release live stream done like the release of the College Football Playoff

[TudoBem]

Do you want to get a high paying job @ V100?
Top 10 by % of graduates placed at the V100.

Source: National Law Journal - The TOP 10 - 2017


Rank Law school % OF 2016 GRADUATES AT THE V100 FIRMS
1 Columbia Law School 57.07%
2 University of Chicago Law School 48.84%
3 Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law 47.58%
4 Cornell Law School 47.54%
5 New York University School of Law 47.42%
6 Duke Law School 45.50%
7 University of Virginia School of Law 44.85%
8 University of Pennsylvania Law School 43.80%
9 Harvard Law School 42.81%
10 Stanford Law School 39.34%

I am going for big law, so this is what I care about.

I really don't care if my friends/neighbors don't know about the law school i will attend. I want to attend a law school where most of the graduating class got a high paying job @ big law firms.

V100 is not the 100 largest firms. Try again.

Okay, I changed for you.
It doesn't change my career goals and my choices where to attend law school.

[cavalier1138]

Do you want to get a high paying job @ V100?
Top 10 by % of graduates placed at the V100.

Source: National Law Journal - The TOP 10 - 2017


Rank Law school % OF 2016 GRADUATES AT THE V100 FIRMS
1 Columbia Law School 57.07%
2 University of Chicago Law School 48.84%
3 Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law 47.58%
4 Cornell Law School 47.54%
5 New York University School of Law 47.42%
6 Duke Law School 45.50%
7 University of Virginia School of Law 44.85%
8 University of Pennsylvania Law School 43.80%
9 Harvard Law School 42.81%
10 Stanford Law School 39.34%

I am going for big law, so this is what I care about.

I really don't care if my friends/neighbors don't know about the law school i will attend. I want to attend a law school where most of the graduating class got a high paying job @ big law firms.

V100 is not the 100 largest firms. Try again.

Okay, I changed for you.
It doesn't change my career goals and my choices where to attend law school.

I didn't say it did. But you changed it the wrong way. The NLJ rankings are based on the largest firms, which is not the same as the Vault rankings. If you want to collapse everything into biglaw statistics, this thread is a much better way to evaluate schools

[futureellewoods123]

"people on the streets" lay prestige on the west coast in my approximation

Harvard
Yale
Stanford
UC Berkeley / UCLA
Duke / Michigan / USC (for the sports)
Penn (state) / UT (for famous Rose Bowl appearences)
Columbia / Georgetown
U Chi / NU/ Cornell / NYU
UVA (no one I know has ever heard of Charlottesville and they don't know why anyone would ever want to go there)

Pretty accurate although I'd say even USC up with UCLA for alumni and name recognition on the west coast

[goldenbear2020]

"people on the streets" lay prestige on the west coast in my approximation

Harvard
Yale
Stanford
UC Berkeley / UCLA
Duke / Michigan / USC (for the sports)
Penn (state) / UT (for famous Rose Bowl appearences)
Columbia / Georgetown
U Chi / NU/ Cornell / NYU
UVA (no one I know has ever heard of Charlottesville and they don't know why anyone would ever want to go there)

"Northwestern, is that near Seattle or something?" - multiple CA people

[favabeansoup]

2019 USNWR Rankings Prediction:

UT/VANDY 14
GULC 16
UCLA 17

I'll screenshot and post my $100 donation to a charity of GULC alum's choice if I am wrong.

UT alums: care about the underprivileged in our society
GULC alums: only care about themselves and blowjobs from West Wing binging college kids

[cavalier1138]

GULC alums: only care about themselves and blowjobs from West Wing binging college kids

You have to admit, it makes their admissions materials much more eye-catching.

[BoyJord]

2019 USNWR Rankings Prediction:

UT/VANDY 14
GULC 16
UCLA 17

I'll screenshot and post my $100 donation to a charity of GULC alum's choice if I am wrong.

UT alums: care about the underprivileged in our society
GULC alums: only care about themselves and blowjobs from West Wing binging college kids

FWIW people who recognize the T13 only watch the first 4 seasons

[foregetaboutdre]

Sports do bring money and money gives a school flexibility. Compare Michigan to NYU. Both schools started back in the early 1800's. Michigan's endowment is $9.7 billion while NYU's is $3.4 billion. A startling difference. Love em or hate em jock alums support their schools. Michigan's annual sports revenue is $160 million. The Ivy's started as a sports conference. Harvard endowment $37 billion Yale $25 billion.

Actually Michigan sports ran a 250 million dollar defecit this year ....

With facilities upgrades yeah (and I'm not sure if the 250 million number is their deficit or total debt. IIRC it's their debt service). But in general they are making money and able to pay on their debt.

It's almost like saying a municipality is losing money when they have to bond for a new water plant or something.

Also ND has a ton of lay prestige in certain circles FWIW.

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

2019 USNWR Rankings Prediction:

UT/VANDY 14
GULC 16
UCLA 17

I'll screenshot and post my $100 donation to a charity of GULC alum's choice if I am wrong.

UT alums: care about the underprivileged in our society
GULC alums: only care about themselves and blowjobs from West Wing binging college kids

FWIW people who recognize the T13 only watch the first 4 seasons

Nah T13ers watch it all but only recognize the true 4

[BoyJord]

2019 USNWR Rankings Prediction:

UT/VANDY 14
GULC 16
UCLA 17

I'll screenshot and post my $100 donation to a charity of GULC alum's choice if I am wrong.

UT alums: care about the underprivileged in our society
GULC alums: only care about themselves and blowjobs from West Wing binging college kids

FWIW people who recognize the T13 only watch the first 4 seasons

Nah T13ers watch it all but only recognize the true 4

Guess that's just me then. Damn, I thought we were all on the same page here.

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

2019 USNWR Rankings Prediction:

UT/VANDY 14
GULC 16
UCLA 17

I'll screenshot and post my $100 donation to a charity of GULC alum's choice if I am wrong.

UT alums: care about the underprivileged in our society
GULC alums: only care about themselves and blowjobs from West Wing binging college kids

FWIW people who recognize the T13 only watch the first 4 seasons

Nah T13ers watch it all but only recognize the true 4

Guess that's just me then. Damn, I thought we were all on the same page here.

You've seen it all at least once though right?

[Monday]

.

[BoyJord]

2019 USNWR Rankings Prediction:

UT/VANDY 14
GULC 16
UCLA 17

I'll screenshot and post my $100 donation to a charity of GULC alum's choice if I am wrong.

UT alums: care about the underprivileged in our society
GULC alums: only care about themselves and blowjobs from West Wing binging college kids

FWIW people who recognize the T13 only watch the first 4 seasons

Nah T13ers watch it all but only recognize the true 4

Guess that's just me then. Damn, I thought we were all on the same page here.

You've seen it all at least once though right?

no didnt know I needed to

[Kinch08]

Do you want to get a high paying job @ V100?
Top 10 by % of graduates placed at the V100.

Source: National Law Journal - The TOP 10 - 2017


Rank Law school % OF 2016 GRADUATES AT THE LARGEST 100 FIRMS
1 Columbia Law School 57.07%
2 University of Chicago Law School 48.84%
3 Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law 47.58%
4 Cornell Law School 47.54%
5 New York University School of Law 47.42%
6 Duke Law School 45.50%
7 University of Virginia School of Law 44.85%
8 University of Pennsylvania Law School 43.80%
9 Harvard Law School 42.81%
10 Stanford Law School 39.34%

I am going for big law, so this is what I care about.

I really don't care if my friends/neighbors don't know about the law school i will attend. I want to attend a law school where most of the graduating class got a high paying job @ big law firms.

Those numbers are somewhat misleading, though. It isn't the percentage of students who could do biglaw if they wanted to; it's the percentage of students who choose to do biglaw. If your goal is a high paying job, YLS should definitely still be in your top 10--the fact that a bunch of your peers will go off to become professors and judges or run the ACLU or whatever doesn't affect your odds of landing biglaw.