CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size) Forum

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Tiago Splitter

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by Tiago Splitter » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:12 pm

180orRetake wrote:Do law schools run the risk of losing ABA accreditation if they don't maintain a certain bar passage rate? And how do schools like Charleston manage to get even half of their students to pass?
http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/ ... eckdam.pdf

A. A law school’s bar passage rate shall be sufficient, for purposes of Standard 301(a), if the school
demonstrates that it meets any one of the following tests:
1) That for students who graduated from the law school within the five most recently completed
calendar years:
(a) 75 percent or more of these graduates who sat for the bar passed a bar examination, or
(b) in at least three of these calendar years, 75 percent of the students graduating in those years
and sitting for the bar have passed a bar examination.
In demonstrating compliance under sections (1)(a) and (b), the school must report bar passage results
from as many jurisdictions as necessary to account for at least 70% of its graduates each year, starting
with the jurisdiction in which the highest number of graduates took the bar exam and proceeding in
descending order of frequency.
2) That in three or more of the five most recently completed calendar years, the school’s annual first time
bar passage rate in the jurisdictions reported by the school is no more than 15 points below
the average first-time bar passage rates for graduates of ABA-approved law schools taking the
bar examination in these same jurisdictions.


The standards are so lax as to be nearly meaningless. That said, schools have yet to dip to the very bottom of the LSAT range so the standards may have some mild effect which protects the worst potential matriculants from themselves.

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by 180orRetake » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:19 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:It may have a good reputation but that unfortunately doesn't translate to its placement. That may have been why your friend used the word "inexplicable." You see that with a lot of schools that have solid undergrad reputations but don't place well. I'm from San Diego and USD is seen the same way; the law placement is terrible but if you tell anyone you're going there people from the area will think you're brilliant.
so what do you think is upholding that reputation? because presumably these graduates aren't doing all that well - wouldn't that reputation fade fairly quickly?

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Tiago Splitter

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by Tiago Splitter » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:26 pm

180orRetake wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:It may have a good reputation but that unfortunately doesn't translate to its placement. That may have been why your friend used the word "inexplicable." You see that with a lot of schools that have solid undergrad reputations but don't place well. I'm from San Diego and USD is seen the same way; the law placement is terrible but if you tell anyone you're going there people from the area will think you're brilliant.
so what do you think is upholding that reputation? because presumably these graduates aren't doing all that well - wouldn't that reputation fade fairly quickly?
I think a lot of it is undergrad and just general school reputation, combined with the fact that reputations die slow deaths. And what happens is that because of the "reputation" the big firms in the area will hire 1-2 people from the school and so people at the top do ok. But then the other 75% of the class is SOL because there just aren't enough jobs.

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by 180orRetake » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:27 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
180orRetake wrote:Do law schools run the risk of losing ABA accreditation if they don't maintain a certain bar passage rate? And how do schools like Charleston manage to get even half of their students to pass?
http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/ ... eckdam.pdf

A. A law school’s bar passage rate shall be sufficient, for purposes of Standard 301(a), if the school
demonstrates that it meets any one of the following tests:
1) That for students who graduated from the law school within the five most recently completed
calendar years:
(a) 75 percent or more of these graduates who sat for the bar passed a bar examination, or
(b) in at least three of these calendar years, 75 percent of the students graduating in those years
and sitting for the bar have passed a bar examination.
In demonstrating compliance under sections (1)(a) and (b), the school must report bar passage results
from as many jurisdictions as necessary to account for at least 70% of its graduates each year, starting
with the jurisdiction in which the highest number of graduates took the bar exam and proceeding in
descending order of frequency.
2) That in three or more of the five most recently completed calendar years, the school’s annual first time
bar passage rate in the jurisdictions reported by the school is no more than 15 points below
the average first-time bar passage rates for graduates of ABA-approved law schools taking the
bar examination in these same jurisdictions.


The standards are so lax as to be nearly meaningless. That said, schools have yet to dip to the very bottom of the LSAT range so the standards may have some mild effect which protects the worst potential matriculants from themselves.

wow. this is surprising.

regarding the second point: how much lower could they realistically dip? you need a bachelor's degree to attend law school; at a certain point, it is hard to see how someone could score so low on the LSAT and yet manage to graduate from college.

EDIT: *assuming the candidate did SOME degree of studying/prep work.
Last edited by 180orRetake on Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

180orRetake

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by 180orRetake » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:27 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
180orRetake wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:It may have a good reputation but that unfortunately doesn't translate to its placement. That may have been why your friend used the word "inexplicable." You see that with a lot of schools that have solid undergrad reputations but don't place well. I'm from San Diego and USD is seen the same way; the law placement is terrible but if you tell anyone you're going there people from the area will think you're brilliant.
so what do you think is upholding that reputation? because presumably these graduates aren't doing all that well - wouldn't that reputation fade fairly quickly?
I think a lot of it is undergrad and just general school reputation, combined with the fact that reputations die slow deaths. And what happens is that because of the "reputation" the big firms in the area will hire 1-2 people from the school and so people at the top do ok. But then the other 75% of the class is SOL because there just aren't enough jobs.
Fair enough - makes sense.

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TheProdigal

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by TheProdigal » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:33 am

180orRetake wrote:wow. this is surprising.

regarding the second point: how much lower could they realistically dip? you need a bachelor's degree to attend law school; at a certain point, it is hard to see how someone could score so low on the LSAT and yet manage to graduate from college.

EDIT: *assuming the candidate did SOME degree of studying/prep work.
This isn't exactly true.

"Most WMU-Cooley students have a bachelor's degree from an accredited college or university. Yet, under court rules adopted by the Michigan Supreme Court, an applicant may also attend if the student has completed at least 60 semester hours or 90 quarter hours either toward an undergraduate degree from an accredited school or from an accredited junior or community college." http://www.cooley.edu/prospective/bachelors.html

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by Outis Onoma » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:47 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
180orRetake wrote:Do law schools run the risk of losing ABA accreditation if they don't maintain a certain bar passage rate? And how do schools like Charleston manage to get even half of their students to pass?
http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/ ... eckdam.pdf

A. A law school’s bar passage rate shall be sufficient, for purposes of Standard 301(a), if the school
demonstrates that it meets any one of the following tests:
1) That for students who graduated from the law school within the five most recently completed
calendar years:
(a) 75 percent or more of these graduates who sat for the bar passed a bar examination, or
(b) in at least three of these calendar years, 75 percent of the students graduating in those years
and sitting for the bar have passed a bar examination.
In demonstrating compliance under sections (1)(a) and (b), the school must report bar passage results
from as many jurisdictions as necessary to account for at least 70% of its graduates each year, starting
with the jurisdiction in which the highest number of graduates took the bar exam and proceeding in
descending order of frequency.
2) That in three or more of the five most recently completed calendar years, the school’s annual first time
bar passage rate in the jurisdictions reported by the school is no more than 15 points below
the average first-time bar passage rates for graduates of ABA-approved law schools taking the
bar examination in these same jurisdictions.


The standards are so lax as to be nearly meaningless. That said, schools have yet to dip to the very bottom of the LSAT range so the standards may have some mild effect which protects the worst potential matriculants from themselves.
And these standards will never be applied / enforced, because the governing body is controlled by TTTT shitholes.

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whitespider

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by whitespider » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:29 am

Not on the spreadsheet, because it failed to gain accreditation, but still thought I should share...

Indiana Tech

151 (+3)
3.42 (+.57)

15 Enrolled (-20)

12 Faculty and Administrators (as of their 2014 509)

Someone explain that math to me. :lol:

http://www.theindianalawyer.com/indiana ... icle/38054

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by whitespider » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:37 am

Marquette Law

150/152/155 (+1/0/0)
2.90/3.19/3.42 (-.22/-.14/-.10)

180 Enrolled (-28)

https://law.marquette.edu/prospective-s ... s-profiles

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whitespider

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by whitespider » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:41 am

New York Law School

149/152/154 (0/+1/0)
2.89/3.24/3.48 (+.09/+.04/-.02)

309 Enrolled (+64)

http://www.nyls.edu/admissions/j-d-appl ... d-profile/

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terrier27

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by terrier27 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:50 am

whitespider wrote:Not on the spreadsheet, because it failed to gain accreditation, but still thought I should share...

Indiana Tech

151 (+3)
3.42 (+.57)

15 Enrolled (-20)

12 Faculty and Administrators (as of their 2014 509)

Someone explain that math to me. :lol:

http://www.theindianalawyer.com/indiana ... icle/38054
.
Last edited by terrier27 on Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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whitespider

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by whitespider » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:54 am

Kansas Law

156 (-2)
3.42 (-.05)

126 Enrolled (+1)

https://law.ku.edu/2015-entering-class-profile

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by justrmor » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:46 am

University of Oregon Law

LSAT: 158/157/154
GPA: 3.64/3.48/3.16

Enrolled: 128 (+10)

The top LSAT dropped by a point. The GPA's are up across the board. And enrollment is up 10. However, the number of applications to the school dropped by about 20%. I read somewhere (uomatters.com I think) that the administration is giving the law school an extra 1.5 million a year for scholarships to help keep the credentials up.

https://law.uoregon.edu/explore/class-profile

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by HalfStudent » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:29 pm

Sadly it looks like a lot of low ranked schools have been able to increase class size which is not good..

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by admitmenowplzkthxbai » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:34 pm

HalfStudent wrote:Sadly it looks like a lot of low ranked schools have been able to increase class size which is not good..
Why is that not good? (pardon the ignorance)

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by T14-->BigLaw » Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:56 pm

.
Last edited by T14-->BigLaw on Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by Clemenceau » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:12 pm

urbanist11 wrote:
T14-->BigLaw wrote:I was told by my admissions consultant who spoke with the dean of admissions of NYU that their median dropped to 169. It's up to you to change it on the spreadsheet now or wait until the median goes up on NYU's website, but I think the dean of admissions is a more reliable source than a TLSer's friend who attended NYU's orientation and "thinks he knows the median."
Oh wow that would be crazy
That would make nyu's medians basically identical to duke's. Pretty unexpected.

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barley

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by barley » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:16 pm

urbanist11 wrote:
T14-->BigLaw wrote:I was told by my admissions consultant who spoke with the dean of admissions of NYU that their median dropped to 169. It's up to you to change it on the spreadsheet now or wait until the median goes up on NYU's website, but I think the dean of admissions is a more reliable source than a TLSer's friend who attended NYU's orientation and "thinks he knows the median."
Oh wow that would be crazy
I hope it's true!!

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Post by benwyatt » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:23 pm

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by T14-->BigLaw » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:24 pm

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by T14-->BigLaw » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:31 pm

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm anxious to see Penn's numbers.

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by admitmenowplzkthxbai » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:32 pm

T14-->BigLaw wrote:I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm anxious to see Penn's numbers.
Samsies.

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by hairbear7 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:34 pm

whitespider wrote:Not on the spreadsheet, because it failed to gain accreditation, but still thought I should share...

Indiana Tech

151 (+3)
3.42 (+.57)

15 Enrolled (-20)

12 Faculty and Administrators (as of their 2014 509)

Someone explain that math to me. :lol:

http://www.theindianalawyer.com/indiana ... icle/38054
Great school for people who care about that sweet faculty:student ratio

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Re: CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size)

Post by KMart » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:57 pm

hairbear7 wrote:
whitespider wrote:Not on the spreadsheet, because it failed to gain accreditation, but still thought I should share...

Indiana Tech

151 (+3)
3.42 (+.57)

15 Enrolled (-20)

12 Faculty and Administrators (as of their 2014 509)

Someone explain that math to me. :lol:

http://www.theindianalawyer.com/indiana ... icle/38054
Great school for people who care about that sweet faculty:student ratio
Don't forget that free tuition for everyone.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


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