Law School Advertising Megathread Forum

[Yukos]

They apparently called my house and when my stepdad said I wasn't there they offered to call back tomorrow, so kind of them.

I think phone calls is really crossing a line. They can spam my inbox all they want but this is absurd -- especially since I've already deposited and will start orientation in five weeks...

[MKC]

Just got a call from Liberty University. I didn't engage so I don't have any dirt. The girl on the phone sounded like your run of the mill depressed-as-fuck telemarketer.

I've been getting the Liberty calls, but I haven't picked up yet. I'm kind of tempted to just say that I'm Jewish right off the bat and see what happens.

After they told me they were a law school with christian values, I told them I was agnostic and asked if that was going to be a problem. The guy got defensive and asked if I have a problem with christians. I assured him that no, I do not have a problem with christians, but I was concerned they might have a problem with me. He stumbled over his words for a minute before he decided that of course, everyone would be fine with that.

[justonemoregame]

LSAC should charge law schools a fee for each e-mail address given out, and subsequently reduce the amount they charge for CAS reports. Or, allow students to opt-in to solicitation by choosing from a list of schools. They shouldn't let schools spam like car dealerships unless there is some tangible benefit given. It may have served some benign, useful purpose at some point, like information-sharing, but everybody has the google now.

[20141023]

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[jingosaur]

I got a call yesterday AND a call today from those bastards at Liberty. I felt bad the first time they called because it is almost always current students instead of people at admissions that do the calling, but when they called me again today, I didn't hold back. Here is how our conversation went a second ago while it is still fresh in my head (I wish I had recorded it):

Liberty: "Hi, I'm calling on behalf of Liberty University School of Law, and was wondering if you had a moment to discuss your plans on going to law school. Is now a good time?"
Me: "Well, I'm kind of working right now, but sure, I have a moment."
Liberty: "Great! Well, to start off with, have you heard anything about our school?"
Me: "Yes, I've seen their employment statistics on Law School Transparency, actually."
Liberty: "Excellent, so you know that over 70% of our graduating class is employed within 9 months of graduation?"
Me: "Ummmm... I don't think that's quite accurate, but yes, I am aware of your school's employment rates."
Liberty: "Actually, those numbers are correct; our law school has to report this information every year, so it is very accurate."
(I start opening up LST as I talk to the student.)
Me: "Okay, let me rephrase my previous comment: I don't think that 70% of your graduating class is becoming lawyers. Give me just a second..."
Liberty: "Well, those numbers are accurate, but anyway, the point of my call is to see if you have any plans on going to law school this fall."
Me: "Yeah here we go. According to the data that you all reported to the ABA, 65 of the 90 students from the graduating class of 2012 were "employed," but if you look at the number of full-time, long-term, JD-required positions, only 47 of the 90 landed such jobs. 47 / 90 is barely over half, not over 70%. But whatever."
Liberty: "Okay, well you're entitled to your opinion, but do you have any plans for this fall?"
Me: "How is than an opinion? I just stated a numerical fact."
Liberty: "Again, if that is how you feel I cannot tell you that you aren't entitled to think that way."
Me: "Look, this conversation isn't going anywhere. To answer your question so we can end this, yes, of course I already have plans for this fall. It is almost August. You all are basically going to get a bunch of dumb-ass procrastinators if you are inviting people to apply at this point who haven't applied already. Sorry, but I have to get back to work. Bye."

I felt kind of bad after the call, but I feel like they're almost lying with the way they're presenting their statistics. I suppose that those were the employment rates that showed up on USNWR for so long, so people are used to hearing them, but still. Law schools shouldn't be allowed to tout short-term non-JD required work as "employed."

You should have mentioned that only 2 students got jobs at law firms with more than 25 lawyers

[justonemoregame]

Liberty: "Hi, I'm calling on behalf of Liberty University School of Law, and was wondering if you had a moment to discuss your plans on going to law school. Is now a good time?"

Me: "Sure. Why did Jesus throw away his bag of Skittles?"

Liberty: "Uh, I don't know."

Me: "Because they kept falling through the little holes in his hands."

Liberty: Click.

[PRgradBYU]

Liberty: "Hi, I'm calling on behalf of Liberty University School of Law, and was wondering if you had a moment to discuss your plans on going to law school. Is now a good time?"

Me: "Sure. Why did Jesus throw away his bag of Skittles?"

Liberty: "Uh, I don't know."

Me: "Because they kept falling through the little holes in his hands."

Liberty: Click.

Audio recording or it didn't happen.

[North]

at all of this.

[justonemoregame]

Liberty: "Hi, I'm calling on behalf of Liberty University School of Law, and was wondering if you had a moment to discuss your plans on going to law school. Is now a good time?"

Me: "Sure. Why did Jesus throw away his bag of Skittles?"

Liberty: "Uh, I don't know."

Me: "Because they kept falling through the little holes in his hands."

Liberty: Click.

Audio recording or it didn't happen.

It didn't happen, for the record. I'm much nicer in person and over the phone than the junk I think of saying.

[Cicero76]

Why isn't Liberty calling me??? I've had a rough couple of days and would love to do some serious trolling to make myself feel better.

[hephaestus]

at all of this.

[20141023]

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[tbq1988]

This thread is awesome! I would never go there but their data on LSAC actually doesn't look too bad. I can actually see someone being justified in going there if their stats aren't great. Goodness their median grant is almost half tuition (didn't bother to look at retention rates so that could be deceiving). I can see why someone might attend if they had a 150/3.0. Even a 50/50 shot at becoming an attorney might be worth it if you only have to fork out 40k for tuition. Not defending their recruiting tactics just saying that there are a lot worse crap holes out there someone might choose to attend.

[20141023]

.

[untar614]

I'm too lazy to copy the picture, but as anyone else who got the email today knows, a Cooley student SHOOK THE PRESIDENT'S HAND!!!!

This is an AMAZING story! (they say so themselves)

[hephaestus]

I'm too lazy to copy the picture, but as anyone else who got the email today knows, a Cooley student SHOOK THE PRESIDENT'S HAND!!!!

This is an AMAZING story! (they say so themselves)

This is some scary and desperate marketing.

[tbq1988]

Someone with a 150 is never "justified" in going to law school.

I am not sure I would paint with quite so broad a brush but I agree that unless there are certain factors (full-ride scholarship, parents with a few million to spend on their kid, guaranteed job after graduation) then attending a school that accepts 15x LSAT scores is not advisable.

[PRgradBYU]

Someone with a 150 is never "justified" in going to law school.

I am not sure I would paint with quite so broad a brush but I agree that unless there are certain factors (full-ride scholarship, parents with a few million to spend on their kid, guaranteed job after graduation) then attending a school that accepts 15x LSAT scores is not advisable.

FTFY

[tbq1988]

In some states if you don't graduate from a local law school the chances of you getting a job are greatly diminished. I have personal knowledge from where I work. Harvard grads have been rejected in favor of average grads from the local school. In rural states, a schools network can matter more than its prestige. If you want to practice in the city in which I live, you better go to a local school or have ties to the local community to secure a job. If you are really from BYU, I would think you would understand the importance of attending that school in Utah.

[jselson]

In some states if you don't graduate from a local law school the chances of you getting a job are greatly diminished. I have personal knowledge from where I work. Harvard grads have been rejected in favor of average grads from the local school. In rural states, a schools network can matter more than its prestige. If you want to practice in the city in which I live, you better go to a local school or have ties to the local community to secure a job. If you are really from BYU, I would think you would understand the importance of attending that school in Utah.

Sure, a random Harvard grad might have a more difficult time getting a job in Utah than a median BYU student at any particular Utah firm. But you have too many variables in play - there probably aren't a ton of non-Mormon, non-Utah folks who went to Harvard but want to practice in Salt Lake. I have a hard time imagining that a Mormon Utah resident will be worse off going to Harvard and coming back than going to BYU.

[BigZuck]

In some states if you don't graduate from a local law school the chances of you getting a job are greatly diminished. I have personal knowledge from where I work. Harvard grads have been rejected in favor of average grads from the local school. In rural states, a schools network can matter more than its prestige. If you want to practice in the city in which I live, you better go to a local school or have ties to the local community to secure a job. If you are really from BYU, I would think you would understand the importance of attending that school in Utah.

Outed as a Liberty adcom

[jselson]

Hey look, tbq is actually perfect for a Bayesian experiment (if he wants to work in Utah).

Tbq, you have to decide for real, which are you going to bet on - HYS or BYU with $$$$?

[Ti Malice]

So I guess this means I applied in the very last cycle before the advent of law school telemarketing. Holy shit. I actually would never have thought they'd progress beyond (or sink below) relentless email spamming.

[20141023]

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[BigZuck]

In some states if you don't graduate from a local law school the chances of you getting a job are greatly diminished. I have personal knowledge from where I work. Harvard grads have been rejected in favor of average grads from the local school. In rural states, a schools network can matter more than its prestige. If you want to practice in the city in which I live, you better go to a local school or have ties to the local community to secure a job. If you are really from BYU, I would think you would understand the importance of attending that school in Utah.

I am saying this as an ex-Mormon who has done the whole mission thing and has a ton of family and friends in Utah who attended BYU: Even in the heart of Mormondom, top schools with "prestigious" names still trump BYU, and I'm not just talking about law school. Look at this post, for example.

I think that you are misunderstanding the concept of ties (which I didn't really understand at first either). As jselson kind of mentioned, a Harvard grad who isn't Mormon and who has never lived in Utah might have a difficult time convincing a legal firm in Salt Lake City that he actually wants to work there; they would likely see him as a flight risk. However, if it were a Mormon who had been raised in Utah and simply left to get their JD from Harvard, I would be willing to bet you money that they would have much better options in Utah than someone who graduated from BYU with similar grades. Accordingly, graduates of top schools might lose to graduates of local schools in obscure regions to which they have no ties, but this is usually because it is an "outsider versus insider" instead of "insider versus insider" scenario.

I am not sure if you have a 15X score and are trying to justify a horrible decision (a.k.a. going to a tier-2-or-below school), but with the employment data we now have, shitty schools just don't make sense anymore.

Actually it looks like he (she?) is a 3.9/173 from his (her?) post history