CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size) Forum

[deant286]

Posters on here often claim that Berkeley looks beyond numbers and wants more diverse applicants, but what does this mean exactly? I am not disputing this, I am genuinely curious. What are they looking at beyond the numbers? Nobody ever says "Berkeley heavily values work experience," rather, they say "Berkeley wants more well-rounded, diverse applicants." What makes one diverse and well-rounded in the eyes of Berkeley adcoms?

[Tiago Splitter]

Posters on here often claim that Berkeley looks beyond numbers and wants more diverse applicants, but what does this mean exactly? I am not disputing this, I am genuinely curious. What are they looking at beyond the numbers? Nobody ever says "Berkeley heavily values work experience," rather, they say "Berkeley wants more well-rounded, diverse applicants." What makes one diverse and well-rounded in the eyes of Berkeley adcoms?

Being a minority or a woman is a good start. Beyond that, who knows. I think they want a well rounded class more than well rounded applicants but you could say that about a lot of schools. One thing about Berkeley is they want you to write their 4 page PS and really make it obvious that Berkeley is where you want to be.

[bpolley0]

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[deant286]

Being a minority or a woman is a good start.

What do you mean by "minority"? I assume you don't mean URM (because whatever counts as a URM is exactly the sort of diversity every law school looks for, right?) so do you just mean minority as in something that isn't a part of the white, 3rd generation European, Christian masses of the US?

And how exactly does one prove to Berkeley they really would like to attend? I have this problem when writing all of my Why X essays, I can't see how they will be any different from the Why X essays of the other 1000 people who researched the minimal information available about these various schools and wrote the same things.

[runinthefront]

I don't think that data automatically leads to the conclusion you made

+1.

Just because they are rejecting people above their medians doesn't mean that those people would necessarily go to Berkley if accepted.....

I think the burden of proof is on your side but I'll also add that Berkeley tends not to drop very low on the GPA side. If you want a higher LSAT median you can always find more splitters.

Tiago, from how I look at it, Berkeley's already accepting a decent number of splitters--just look at its 162 25th percentile, which is very NU/GULC-like. I just think it cares more about protecting its GPA median more than anything else. The whole "Berkeley simply doesn't care about medians" just seems odd considering that literally every other T1 school does, and there are tons of institutional reasons to care.

I don't think Berkeley could suddenly just go to a 3.8/168 median if it stopped "holistically" admitting candidates. That's my only concern with such a broad "Berkeley doesn't care about medians" statement. I don't think that's true.

[bpolley0]

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[Tiago Splitter]

I guess I just don't see any reason why Berkeley couldn't do what UVA does. You might be right about the GPA thing but it's not because of the median it's because of the 25th, which is higher than UVA's and Duke's, among others. That's why I said if they were willing to sacrifice the GPA floor and let in more people in the 3.5-3.6 they'd have an easier time getting another point or two on the LSAT median.

[bpolley0]

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[runinthefront]

I guess I just don't see any reason why Berkeley couldn't do what UVA does. You might be right about the GPA thing but it's not because of the median it's because of the 25th, which is higher than UVA's and Duke's, among others. That's why I said if they were willing to sacrifice the GPA floor and let in more people in the 3.5-3.6 they'd have an easier time getting another point or two on the LSAT median.

Oh, in that case I don't think we are really disagreeing.

When Scotti responded to my comment--which was about Berkeley's numbers as a whole--there was no mention of simply raising the LSAT median to the detriment of something else. It read like a "they could just raise all their numbers if they wanted too--just check LSN/TLS discussions."

I just think they'd have to sacrifice their high GPA median, just like any other t14 would. Different schools just choose what they must focus on. Overall, from the 25/50/75 of both GPA and LSAT, UCLA and BOALT are very very close.

[PeanutsNJam]

Let's also stop insinuating that GPA is a better indicator of well-rounded law school competence than the LSAT is. Both are turds. Berk may have a more holistic approach to admissions, but a focus on GPA is not evidence of that.

[bpolley0]

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[Tiago Splitter]

I just think they'd have to sacrifice their high GPA median, just like any other t14 would. Different schools just choose what they must focus on. Overall, from the 25/50/75 of both GPA and LSAT, UCLA and BOALT are very very close.

The fact that they've always had numbers right in line with UCLA's, when people usually choose Berk over UCLA, suggests they don't care much about numbers. I'm not saying they could have a 3.9/173, but getting to UVA or Duke numbers seems reasonable.

[dwil770]

I guess I just don't see any reason why Berkeley couldn't do what UVA does. You might be right about the GPA thing but it's not because of the median it's because of the 25th, which is higher than UVA's and Duke's, among others. That's why I said if they were willing to sacrifice the GPA floor and let in more people in the 3.5-3.6 they'd have an easier time getting another point or two on the LSAT median.

Cali is more restrained by affirmative action prohibitions. If they value having a diverse class, which all schools do, it is easier to put one together and try to show compliance when they have a lower lsat median.

[Tiago Splitter]

Let's also stop insinuating that GPA is a better indicator of well-rounded law school competence than the LSAT is. Both are turds. Berk may have a more holistic approach to admissions, but a focus on GPA is not evidence of that.

+1

At least the LSAT is standardized. Everyone is on the exact same playing field. I'd put more weight on the LSAT than GPA- by a lot.

Schools do. A 4.0/155 has almost no chance at the T14 while a 2.7/175 has a very good one. BTW undergrad GPA does have a real correlation with 1L grades. It's not as strong as the LSAT correlation but given it and the fact that schools make decisions based on very limited information it's not unreasonable for them to use GPA as a key factor. Of course they do it because US News makes them, but it's not a totally BS criteria.

Also cool your jets with the diversity vs. merit stuff. Not that I agree or disagree but the mods tend not to take kindly to these discussions and we don't want to get this thread locked.

[deant286]

1) http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/minority
2) By doing extensive research about the school and coming up with a compelling argument, based on that research, espousing why they should let you in.

1) I was not asking for the dictionary definition of the world "minority," I wanted to know what the other poster meant when he used the term. I assumed he didn't mean URM - which I have been led to believe is used to describe a particular subset of minorities, at least when it comes to admissions- because he didn't use that term, so I wanted to know which groups he actually was referring to as "minorities." But thank you for your condescension and for not advancing the discussion in any meaningful way.
2) Again, thank you for wasting your energy on a condescending, unhelpful reply. That is obviously the point of Why X essays, and tailored PSs, but I was wondering aloud how to go about doing that in a way that is different from the other 1000 people who will respond using the exact same limited information available.

If only you had used the word "retake" somewhere in your answer, then this would have been the epitome of a TLS response.

[Tiago Splitter]

Cal's website says 40% people of color. This might be high simply because they take a lot of Asians, but whatever the reason they have as high a percentage there as any school.

What makes it interesting is that Cal is not allowed under California law to ask about race. So the only way they can find out is via the diversity statement. Given this my educated guess is that they probably get a lot of these and like to see a diversity statement even if you don't fall under the traditional diversity categories.

[bpolley0]

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[runinthefront]

If you're trying to talk about AA, there's a designated thread for it. Please don't start that here.

[bpolley0]

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[bpolley0]

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[Huskies13!]

UNM is up:
111 (0)
154 (+1)
3.48 (+.05)
http://lawschool.unm.edu/admissions/about-students/

[Fiddlesticks]

The Michigan Law class is going to be like 275 students. Down about 40

I almost nailed it.

[White Dwarf]

No hard data. But based on orientation, Columbia's class size is going to be right around 380 again. They also said this class had a female majority.

[runinthefront]

Entering class for Cornell seems to be 191, which is a decrease from last year's 203.

[Rigo]

Updated.