Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings Forum

[worldtraveler]

Explanation for U of Miami's 11 point rise could be the fact that Miami eliminated their P/T program the year before. There is strong indication that U of Miami will make another large jump next year as they aquired ASU's dean, hired 5 new faculty for 2009/10 which increases student/faculty ratio and they are finishing up the schools new building. U of Miami is making some smart moves. Kudo's.

I don't know about that. There's also a good chance that they'll fall, especially given their 89% acceptance rate, incoming class of 1900 students, and student-to-teacher ratio of 27:1. That, and their motto of "if you're willing to pay, we're willing to accept you," could all hurt them next year.

Seriously?

[coolkatz321]

Explanation for U of Miami's 11 point rise could be the fact that Miami eliminated their P/T program the year before. There is strong indication that U of Miami will make another large jump next year as they aquired ASU's dean, hired 5 new faculty for 2009/10 which increases student/faculty ratio and they are finishing up the schools new building. U of Miami is making some smart moves. Kudo's.

I don't know about that. There's also a good chance that they'll fall, especially given their 89% acceptance rate, incoming class of 1900 students, and student-to-teacher ratio of 27:1. That, and their motto of "if you're willing to pay, we're willing to accept you," could all hurt them next year.

Seriously?

Well, admittedly, there was a little bit of sarcasm there. The acceptance rate was still absurdly high, though.

[Boyk1182]

Explanation for U of Miami's 11 point rise could be the fact that Miami eliminated their P/T program the year before. There is strong indication that U of Miami will make another large jump next year as they aquired ASU's dean, hired 5 new faculty for 2009/10 which increases student/faculty ratio and they are finishing up the schools new building. U of Miami is making some smart moves. Kudo's.

I don't know about that. There's also a good chance that they'll fall, especially given their 89% acceptance rate, incoming class of 1900 students, and student-to-teacher ratio of 27:1. That, and their motto of "if you're willing to pay, we're willing to accept you," could all hurt them next year.

Seriously?

Well, admittedly, there was a little bit of sarcasm there. The acceptance rate was still absurdly high, though.

Dude there's really no way to know that from this website or LSN... You'd have to see the whole pool of apps.
...but I thought it seemed a little strange too.

[ZakD]

Humor is difficult to convey in an internet forum, eh Katz?

[worldtraveler]

Humor is difficult to convey in an internet forum, eh Katz?

Or I might just be gullible.

[Boyk1182]

Humor is difficult to convey in an internet forum, eh Katz?

No I got it...
Just sticking up for em

[ZakD]

Well you really stuck it to that straw man.

[Dr. Foom]

I'm surprised Pitt didn't jump up more. The new Law and Entrepreneurship program is supposed to be great. Needless to say, I don't feel bad about declining my offers from Temple and PSU. When taking ties into consideration, they are all only separated by one point in the rankings. It's amazing how all of the PA schools (other than Penn) are so similarly regarded. I wonder how interchangeable they are?

Same here. I guess we've gotta wait a year or two for the Law and Entrepreneurship program to gain some rep. I'm just happy that Pitt stopped the bleeding from last year. I can wait a year or two for them to climb back into the 50s and above.

[coolkatz321]

Humor is difficult to convey in an internet forum, eh Katz?

Apparently, although I thought it was pretty obvious...

[dresden doll]

I hate digging up old posts for internet arguments but read the bolded part again. I fail to see how you reached the conclusion that you did based on your experience alone. It is just as likely that Harvard paid much more attention to your softs etc. than Berkeley, and then decided not to accept you because there were other more qualified applicants

You're correct in saying that I shouldn't have generalized based on my experience alone. However, I never applied to Harvard (if you're going to dig up old posts, please read them correctly). I had a chat with an admissions officer (as I said in my post), who said that all of my softs (military, work experience, academic achievement) wouldn't matter unless I could break 170. If they truly valued looking at applicants holistically, I wouldn't have been given a numbers threshold. I am sure that Harvard does evaluate softs - but it seems to occur after a certain numerical cutoff. Again, this is my experience - so take it for what you will.

Don't mean to start a flame war by any means - but B. has a number threshold of its own, albeit lower. Most schools have thresholds of a sort; it's just a matter of how willing they tend to be to go below it or how high it is in the first place. That H's is higher only indicates, in all likelihood, that H gets a stronger pool of applicants to pick from, and can therefore set the bar higher than B.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: seeming lack of insistence on bumping up the LSAT median does not indicate that B. doesn't care about the rankings. We all here focus 'the LSAT whoring' because it happens to be the one aspect of rankings that affects us the most. In reality, LSAT median is only a piece of the puzzle, and people sometimes forget that by not focusing as much on the LSAT, B. reaps several other advantages.

1) The number of apps shoots up since a whole bunch of reverse splitters that don't stand much of a chance with the rest of the T14s apply there, knowing a 'miracle' is more likely to happen at B. than anywhere else.
2) Yield shoots up. An acceptance to B. is likely the highest acceptance a 164/4.0 (just to pull out a random example of a numbers combo that would work at B. sooner than it would work anywhere else in the T14) will receive.
3) The combination of a high app number and good yield helps lower B.'s overall acceptance rate.

I am no Harvard troll (didn't even apply there) and went into cycle with B. on my short list of top choices. However, while B. remains dear to me, I couldn't even begin to make anything out of the fact that its acceptance rate is lower than Harvard's. The difference is in one percentage, as far as I can tell, and that's not even accounting for class sizes. Filling up a class of 200+ people with a 11 percent acceptance rate is not more impressive than filling up a class of 500+ people with a 12 percent acceptance rate (and stronger medians, to boot). Too much credit's given here to B. imo.

[Nampt]

Is there a place that lists the Rankings going back over several years?
It would be interesting to look at movement trends over several years rather then just last year's to this year's

[treple]

Graph in this thread somewhere.

[Flum]

Explanation for U of Miami's 11 point rise could be the fact that Miami eliminated their P/T program the year before. There is strong indication that U of Miami will make another large jump next year as they aquired ASU's dean, hired 5 new faculty for 2009/10 which increases student/faculty ratio and they are finishing up the schools new building. U of Miami is making some smart moves. Kudo's.

I know an undergraduate statistics professor at UM who was asked to join an analytics committee for the law school's admissions department. He told me that the University has made it clear that they want to aggressively move up in the rankings. Granted, this is coming from a source who has a vested interest in portraying the University in the best light possible given that he's a member of the faculty and his son attends the law school, but perhaps the school's increase in this year's ranking lends credence to what he was telling me.

For the record, I will likely be attending FSU and did not even apply to UM.

[mrman17]

U Miami hasn't started on their new building yet, but it is in the pipeline. From my visit on ASD, it was clear to me that UM was extremely undervalued in the rankings. I was very impressed with what I saw. The school may not come out and say it, but they are very interested in moving up in the rankings (as is every other school except Yale). It appears that the school is going about it smartly, based on some of their changes/new initiatives. An 11 pt increase is fantastic, but can that be repeated next year? Maybe, after the improved student/faculty ratio (which was recently 19:1).

[midrangejumper]

the trend seems to be that in order to increase rankings, schools are getting rid of their PT programs. i feel bad for people who want to be in those PT programs though , since i bet a ton of schools get rid of their PT programs within the next few years

[lsb]

.

[Low-Key]

Perhaps dumb question as may be answered somewhere already and I cannot find it, but does anyone know what % response rate for lawyers are included with the new rankings?

Curious as if it is less than 50%, compared to a higher judge assessment %, then I wonder if the attorneys were too busy dealing with 4th qtr 08 recession woes whereas judges, etc, were less concerned about their jobs. Anyone know when the forms are filled out? Is it in fact the 4th qtr of every year?

[Helmholtz]

Perhaps dumb question as may be answered somewhere already and I cannot find it, but does anyone know what % response rate for lawyers are included with the new rankings?

Curious as if it is less than 50%, compared to a higher judge assessment %, then I wonder if the attorneys were too busy dealing with 4th qtr 08 recession woes whereas judges, etc, were less concerned about their jobs. Anyone know when the forms are filled out? Is it in fact the 4th qtr of every year?

Peer assessment response rate is usually around 70-75%. Practitioner assessment response rate is usually around 25%.

31% of the practitioners responded this year. A little larger, but nothing extraordinary

There is no separate lawyer/judge response rate provided by USNWR.

[Whitty]

Holy crap.


The one week I'm off of TLS and all hell breaks loose. I'm excited about the tiny little jump for Iowa though, Im all warm and fuzzy over it.

[sf87]

Holy crap.


The one week I'm off of TLS and all hell breaks loose. I'm excited about the tiny little jump for Iowa though, Im all warm and fuzzy over it.

Welcome back! Yes it was quite the adventure with Opera rushing to get the rankings

[Contrarian]

UNLV moving up 13 spots is definitely great to see...really appreciate the thread and real rankings.

I think this is a good example of why the rankings are generally bullshit. The school has moved up 25 notches in two years. Is this really because the school has substantially improved in quality over the past two years.

Or is it because of factors largely irrelevant to the quality of the educational program itself. Such as being a desirable location they can attract better candidates, but concurrently have a high selectivity (16% if I recall which is in the top 5-10 most selective schools) because most spots go to Nevada residents and only 25% awarded to out of state candidates.

I'd be willing to argue that If UNLV were UN-Carson City or UN-Reno it'd still be a tier 3.

[midrangejumper]

Explanation for U of Miami's 11 point rise could be the fact that Miami eliminated their P/T program the year before. There is strong indication that U of Miami will make another large jump next year as they aquired ASU's dean, hired 5 new faculty for 2009/10 which increases student/faculty ratio and they are finishing up the schools new building. U of Miami is making some smart moves. Kudo's.

I don't know about that. There's also a good chance that they'll fall, especially given their 89% acceptance rate, incoming class of 1900 students, and student-to-teacher ratio of 27:1. That, and their motto of "if you're willing to pay, we're willing to accept you," could all hurt them next year.

Seriously?

Well, admittedly, there was a little bit of sarcasm there. The acceptance rate was still absurdly high, though.

katz, you're a good guy, but jesus dude stop killing miami! some of us aren't lucky to get into illinois we take what we can get lol

[coolkatz321]

Well, admittedly, there was a little bit of sarcasm there. The acceptance rate was still absurdly high, though.

katz, you're a good guy, but jesus dude stop killing miami! some of us aren't lucky to get into illinois we take what we can get lol

Alright, alright

You'll actually be there as they increase the quality of the school, so consider yourself one of the lucky ones! The new dean is definitely going to change a lot of things...

[Kobe43]

Well, admittedly, there was a little bit of sarcasm there. The acceptance rate was still absurdly high, though.

katz, you're a good guy, but jesus dude stop killing miami! some of us aren't lucky to get into illinois we take what we can get lol

Alright, alright

You'll actually be there as they increase the quality of the school, so consider yourself one of the lucky ones! The new dean is definitely going to change a lot of things...

You really are a dope

[coolkatz321]

You really are a dope

Sorry, I'm not the one stupid enough to think that Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin are cities.