Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011 Forum

[SentinelsOfEvil]

Anyone else a little concerned about not fitting in at school in america. I mean just reading through the amount of threads where people say they should go on facebook less during class, NO ONE and I mean NO ONE had a computer at lectures at my school. Thats just one of the many things I worry about not to mention the utterly completely different social life at a european university. I don't know I'm starting to get nervous.

I'm actually really looking forward to this. 8-hour take home exams? Getting to type exams?? OPEN BOOK?!?!?

It's just inconceivable. And awesome.

Seconded... Really looking forward to it too... Typing exams will be such a bloody relief...

P.S. I did my undergrad in Singapore, which does not even come close to a european university, let alone an american one...

[SentinelsOfEvil]

Hi, fellow internationals. I thought I'd post an update here in the spirit of camaraderie and information exchange.

So far:

In: Columbia, Northwestern, UCLA, Vanderbilt
Out: Harvard, Berkeley
WL: Chicago, UVA
Held: Michigan, Penn
Pending: Yale, Stanford, Duke (like everyone else), WUSTL (not sure what's going on here), USC (???), NYU

I'm glad to see all the successful cycles for folks on this thread. Good luck on the remainder of the cycle! I'm actually in the middle of a green card process currently, and I'm hoping I get it in time. If not, I will consider deferring. The hoops we internationals have to go through

Just thought that I would add to this to help people who were late in their app process -

In: Columbia, NYU
Out: Harvard, Berkeley
WL: Chicago, UVA, Michigan (After app. fee waivers at UVA and Michigan)

GPA: Above Average
LSAT: 179

[FlanAl]

thought I'd update

above average and 170

Out:
ED UVA
UT
USC
UMich
Duke
Chi

In:
GULC
Vandy
UIUC
USD
W&L

WL:
W&M
Emory

In my opinion I'm kind of not having the best cycle. I think that even though I don't have a GPA I'm getting viewed like I have a 3.3 or something. Well only 3 more schools to hear back from but I feel like they are probably going to take a while so thought I'd update today.

[lovejopd]

thought I'd update

above average and 170

Out:
ED UVA
UT
USC
UMich
Duke
Chi

In:
GULC
Vandy
UIUC
USD
W&L

WL:
W&M
Emory

In my opinion I'm kind of not having the best cycle. I think that even though I don't have a GPA I'm getting viewed like I have a 3.3 or something. Well only 3 more schools to hear back from but I feel like they are probably going to take a while so thought I'd update today.

Wow...I am surprised by your cycle given the fact that you have a great LSAT...Does it a letter grade (Above Average) really matter?...Did you apply late?...How come only GULC accepted you...You think about reapply or retake?..Sorry man...

[braziliangirl]

Hello guys,
I was wondering if I could get some help from you.
I'm a bachelor of laws from Brazil. I graduated last August and I'm studing for TOEFL and LSAT, and I was wondering if I should apply for the JD or the LLM program. I know that since I already have a legal education I could go to the LLM program, but what I really want is to live and work in the US, and from what I've read on the web, the JD would be a better way to achieve this goal.
Could you tell me if this impression is right? With a JD an international student would have more chances?
Thank you in advance!

[lovejopd]

Hello guys,
I was wondering if I could get some help from you.
I'm a bachelor of laws from Brazil. I graduated last August and I'm studing for TOEFL and LSAT, and I was wondering if I should apply for the JD or the LLM program. I know that since I already have a legal education I could go to the LLM program, but what I really want is to live and work in the US, and from what I've read on the web, the JD would be a better way to achieve this goal.
Could you tell me if this impression is right? With a JD an international student would have more chances?
Thank you in advance!

No brainer. JD

[FlanAl]

lovejopd to be dead honest i think that if my score had of been 1 point higher my cycle would have been completely different. I applied late which I think greatly effected Texas and UVA (since they have the big in state requirement). WIth Mich although my diversity statement was decent it was about growing up on the coast and I think their holistic-ness knew that I would freeze in the midwest. But yeah just got WL at Penn and will have a completely different outlook on my cycle if that works out.

[lovejopd]

lovejopd to be dead honest i think that if my score had of been 1 point higher my cycle would have been completely different. I applied late which I think greatly effected Texas and UVA (since they have the big in state requirement). WIth Mich although my diversity statement was decent it was about growing up on the coast and I think their holistic-ness knew that I would freeze in the midwest. But yeah just got WL at Penn and will have a completely different outlook on my cycle if that works out.

Okay, 1 point LSAT Score makes a different...

Anyway, Cheers!

[AntipodeanPhil]

First, this thread is great! I'm an international planning to apply 2011-12, and the information here has been enormously helpful.

Also, I'm 99% sure I know Neely, and I believe that there are features of his academic background - not mentioned on his LSN profile - that would make him very unusual as an applicant (and in ways that law schools care about). So don't make any inferences about how you will do based on how he did.

I suspect that at the top schools your actual GPA will matter. E.g.:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Neely/jd

[AntipodeanPhil]

Desperately trying to keep this thread alive - mainly for the next cycle!

I just got my foreign credentials evaluation, and it supports the theory (mentioned earlier in this thread) that the way the system works is that any any 2.1 honors degree = "above average" and any honours 1 degree = "superior." I had honours 1, with unusually low grades (because at my school only the final year really counts for the honours classification, and I got my best grades that year), but I still got "superior," even though my grade average is listed as A-/B+.

Any thoughts on whether schools care more about the quality rating ("superior," etc) or the grade average? Any internationals still reading this? I'm hoping they care more about the rating for obvious reasons.

[SentinelsOfEvil]

Desperately trying to keep this thread alive - mainly for the next cycle!

I just got my foreign credentials evaluation, and it supports the theory (mentioned earlier in this thread) that the way the system works is that any any 2.1 honors degree = "above average" and any honours 1 degree = "superior." I had honours 1, with unusually low grades (because at my school only the final year really counts for the honours classification, and I got my best grades that year), but I still got "superior," even though my grade average is listed as A-/B+.

Any thoughts on whether schools care more about the quality rating ("superior," etc) or the grade average? Any internationals still reading this? I'm hoping they care more about the rating for obvious reasons.

I would have to disagree with your theory that 2:1 = "above average" because i have a friend who's 2:1 got rated as "superior". Mine got rated as "above average" and i also know someone's 2:2 that got rated as "above average". it seems to be a reasonable approximation but they seem to take the individual grades into account.

Would definitely agree with you that the schools care more about the rating because the rating also takes into account the quality of the foreign university, which not adcoms may not be familiar with.

[AntipodeanPhil]

Well, there goes that theory - although I guess it could still be true that all 1st class degrees = "superior." It makes sense that 2.2s would be above average, since - after all - they are still honours degrees.

I think it makes a lot of sense that rating is what matters most. After all, the schools don't know whether As are very common (as in most US schools), or relatively rare. And in this case, their evaluation of your relative competence actually matters, since they don't have to report a GPA.

[deadpoetnsp]

Law schools care about one thing and one thing only: rankings. We international applicants have a blank GPA. Whether our GPA is converted to 'superior' or 'average' does not matter a whit, since our blank GPA does not affect law school rankings in any manner. Hence our LSAT scores largely predict our admissions cycle. For instance, a candidate with 172/average would be far preferable to a 168/superior.

I applied to a relatively large number of schools, and going by my cycle, the LSAT was used to make an admissions decision. The scholarship offered depended on how they interpreted my GPA. My GPA is a deceptive percentage score - no one ever gets a higher percentage than about 75. So a score from 65-75 is really like an A/A+. Though AACRO (correctly) said my GPA was 'superior', some schools considered my score as 3.33-3.5. All schools ranked from 20-50 offered admission, but there were distinct bands of scholarships - one set of schools offered around 5K/year, another set offered about 15-20K/year. Luckily, a few schools ranked in the low twenties offered around 40K/year. And there was no specific pattern or logic behind which school fell in which band.

And that's why international applicants have to blanket a large number of schools with applications. Go to LSP or LSN, and regardless of your GPA, apply to schools that admit students with your LSAT and a GPA from 3.25-3.75 or so. Of course, also apply to a few "miracle schools"

[FlanAl]

I totally thought this until I was rejected at schools where my lsat is well above their 75%. There are a few schools where my stats would have only helped them that I was rejected at. Late applicant etc. but if it was really all about the numbers I'd be having a better cycle.

[AntipodeanPhil]

apply to schools that admit students with your LSAT and a GPA from 3.25-3.75 or so. Of course, also apply to a few "miracle schools"

That makes it sound like none of us could get into Harvard or Yale! Though, I just checked both on LSN, and there seem to be no records of either school accepting an international without an LSAC GPA (they have both accepted a few internationals, but with US UG degrees). Does anyone know of any cases of either accepting non-GPA internationals? I probably don't have a chance, but it would be nice to know that others would.

[FlanAl]

If you're oxbridge then yale is probably an option. To be fair Yale isn't really an option for US students without Ivy pedigree and all kinds of whale saving softs. Harvard on the other hand should definitely be an option with a 1st and a 174+

Don't mean to scare you, I don't think that its me being foreign that is getting me dinged. I just don't think it is all about the numbers since I have plenty of US friends whose numbers should show them getting into better schools but they aren't. I think that there are a ton of factors other than numbers that can drag an application down. I will probably make a big post of my advice to other foreign studyers after my cycle is over so I don't completely out myself.

[SentinelsOfEvil]

apply to schools that admit students with your LSAT and a GPA from 3.25-3.75 or so. Of course, also apply to a few "miracle schools"

That makes it sound like none of us could get into Harvard or Yale! Though, I just checked both on LSN, and there seem to be no records of either school accepting an international without an LSAC GPA (they have both accepted a few internationals, but with US UG degrees). Does anyone know of any cases of either accepting non-GPA internationals? I probably don't have a chance, but it would be nice to know that others would.

I haven't heard of any true international getting into either of them. But I do believe that I may have got into Harvard if I had a Superior. I think you are right in saying that the LSAT is almost all that matters for most schools, but for HYS, I think they can afford to be selective based on the GPA rating too. Since there was no international with 177+ LSAT and a superior in this cycle on TLS, I don't think my theory can be tested. Hopefully someone in the next cycle.

[Nulli Secundus]

apply to schools that admit students with your LSAT and a GPA from 3.25-3.75 or so. Of course, also apply to a few "miracle schools"

That makes it sound like none of us could get into Harvard or Yale! Though, I just checked both on LSN, and there seem to be no records of either school accepting an international without an LSAC GPA (they have both accepted a few internationals, but with US UG degrees). Does anyone know of any cases of either accepting non-GPA internationals? I probably don't have a chance, but it would be nice to know that others would.

I haven't heard of any true international getting into either of them. But I do believe that I may have got into Harvard if I had a Superior. I think you are right in saying that the LSAT is almost all that matters for most schools, but for HYS, I think they can afford to be selective based on the GPA rating too. Since there was no international with 177+ LSAT and a superior in this cycle on TLS, I don't think my theory can be tested. Hopefully someone in the next cycle.

Umm, Earth-Resident with 17X / 17X (below and over median) and S******r got into H. (Part of some degree in the USA).

I am Superior 170/176 and still on hold. (Full international)

[AntipodeanPhil]

I'm not sure if the Earth-Resident counts, but you (Nulli Secundus) are much more promising. I'm especially happy to see that you are Turkish (previous post), since that suggests that they aren't just taking Brits. Please let us know how you do - I couldn't find a LSN profile for your name (I'm not stalking you, I promise!). It would be great news for genuine internationals if you got in.

I have a "superior" and a US PhD with a high GPA (3.89), from a well-known university. I'm hoping the PhD will help reassure law schools about my academic credentials. I've been doing well on practice LSATS, in part because a PhD in philosophy requires exactly the same skills as the RC and LA sections. My only problem is that I'm losing points on the logic games - I often can't get all four games finished in 35 min. Still, I have almost two months until June.

[Nulli Secundus]

I'm not sure if the Earth-Resident counts, but you (Nulli Secundus) are much more promising. I'm especially happy to see that you are Turkish (previous post), since that suggests that they aren't just taking Brits. Please let us know how you do - I couldn't find a LSN profile for your name (I'm not stalking you, I promise!). It would be great news for genuine internationals if you got in.

I have a "superior" and a US PhD with a high GPA (3.89), from a well-known university. I'm hoping the PhD will help reassure law schools about my academic credentials. I've been doing well on practice LSATS, in part because a PhD in philosophy requires exactly the same skills as the RC and LA sections. My only problem is that I'm losing points on the logic games - I often can't get all four games finished in 35 min. Still, I have almost two months until June.

LSN profile is in my forum profile.

[rockiesbrit]

Hi all,

So glad there's a foreign applicant thread, let's keep it moving! So I'm a current second year UK Uni Student (Just got my Green Card!) planning on applying for the next cycle for entrance Class of 2015!
Is anyone planning on the same? I'm planning on getting apps ready and then taking the October LSAT having studied over the summer. Is this similar to anyone else?

What schools is everyone looking at? I'm hoping for HYS of course but would be equally happy with good money from T25 down.

Just one quick question, since I'll be applying before I graduate, do you know how LSAC will judge my GPA etc.? Will it be on this year's exams?

[lovejopd]

Hi all,

So glad there's a foreign applicant thread, let's keep it moving! So I'm a current second year UK Uni Student (Just got my Green Card!) planning on applying for the next cycle for entrance Class of 2015!
Is anyone planning on the same? I'm planning on getting apps ready and then taking the October LSAT having studied over the summer. Is this similar to anyone else?

What schools is everyone looking at? I'm hoping for HYS of course but would be equally happy with good money from T25 down.

Just one quick question, since I'll be applying before I graduate, do you know how LSAC will judge my GPA etc.? Will it be on this year's exams?

I think you just submit your current GPA from your undergraduate, so they are gonna evaluate your gpa. It is up in the air!

[lovejopd]

I'm not sure if the Earth-Resident counts, but you (Nulli Secundus) are much more promising. I'm especially happy to see that you are Turkish (previous post), since that suggests that they aren't just taking Brits. Please let us know how you do - I couldn't find a LSN profile for your name (I'm not stalking you, I promise!). It would be great news for genuine internationals if you got in.

I have a "superior" and a US PhD with a high GPA (3.89), from a well-known university. I'm hoping the PhD will help reassure law schools about my academic credentials. I've been doing well on practice LSATS, in part because a PhD in philosophy requires exactly the same skills as the RC and LA sections. My only problem is that I'm losing points on the logic games - I often can't get all four games finished in 35 min. Still, I have almost two months until June.

LSN profile is in my forum profile.

Wow you only apply for one school! You are sooooo brave! I wish I could have your LSAT score! I am jealous!

[AntipodeanPhil]

So I'm a current second year UK Uni Student (Just got my Green Card!) planning on applying for the next cycle for entrance Class of 2015!

Hang on, if you're currently in your second year, and you're applying next cycle, that will be at the beginning of your third year, for admission at the end of your third year. So you would only have a three year degree. All US undergraduate degrees are four years. Don't you need a four year degree (in the UK, an honours degree) to even be considered for US law schools? Can somebody confirm or deny this for me? If that isn't a basic requirement, it would at least put you at a significant disadvantage. Every other British candidate on this thread seems to have an honors degree. Again, someone correct me if I'm wrong here - I can't seem to find a clear answer online.

[SentinelsOfEvil]

apply to schools that admit students with your LSAT and a GPA from 3.25-3.75 or so. Of course, also apply to a few "miracle schools"

That makes it sound like none of us could get into Harvard or Yale! Though, I just checked both on LSN, and there seem to be no records of either school accepting an international without an LSAC GPA (they have both accepted a few internationals, but with US UG degrees). Does anyone know of any cases of either accepting non-GPA internationals? I probably don't have a chance, but it would be nice to know that others would.

I haven't heard of any true international getting into either of them. But I do believe that I may have got into Harvard if I had a Superior. I think you are right in saying that the LSAT is almost all that matters for most schools, but for HYS, I think they can afford to be selective based on the GPA rating too. Since there was no international with 177+ LSAT and a superior in this cycle on TLS, I don't think my theory can be tested. Hopefully someone in the next cycle.

Umm, Earth-Resident with 17X / 17X (below and over median) and S******r got into H. (Part of some degree in the USA).

I am Superior 170/176 and still on hold. (Full international)

Earth-Resident probably doesn't count. But I'm rooting for you. Good luck with Harvard. Did you apply anywhere else?