Shall I attend GGU Law 2017 Fall Class? Forum

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

Literally do anything else rather than attend GGU

anything else. its really good you are having these hesitations now!

Well, GGU gave me kinda financial relief.

Did you know over half of their students lose at least part of their scholarships after the first year?

I know that. So I will work on it very hard. I came from a very competitive school in Shanghai. I know the dire situation.

Everyone is going to work very hard, and not everyone can keep their scholarships because law schools grade on a curve. Golden Gate is one of the worst schools in the country and you will absolutely not find a job that will sponsor your visa even if you graduate top 5% from GGU (you most likely won't graduate top 5%).

Even if you decide to transfer out (which you shouldn't since you most likely wont get any money from your new school and because transferring is very difficult) you still likely won't move into the range of schools needed for you to get a job at a place that will sponsor your visa. That's how bad GGU is. Picture me, a US student, asking you if I should attend the worst school in China? Would you suggest that I go?

Also, Touro law school is not even close to New York City. It's like an hour and a half drive away and you'll never get a job in NYC with a Touro Law degree.

Thank you for being so sincere. I do think if I were at your position, I would not suggest you to attend the school. But some people still do attend the worst schools. If finance is permissible, after 1L transfer from GGU to Berkeley T12 is possible. Back to my Shanghai U, it's the best literal U in Shanghai, and I took the evening class, worked while studying, still I graduated with top 5% of the class, I was even at the worse position when I got enrolled in a comparison with other students.

I did research about Touro Law, it's relatively new. I am not considering it after I got GGU admitted.

In 2016, only 1 person from GGU was able to transfer to Berkeley
In 2015, nobody from GGU transferred to Berkeley.
In 2014, only 1 person from GGU was able to transfer to Berkeley.

24 people failed out of GGU last year and only 45% GGU graduates pass the California Bar Exam.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but even though you might have done well in Shanghai, this is law school. You're going to be with extremely hardworking people that are all looking to be in the top 10% of their class to transfer to a better school. Exactly like you. Just because it's a terrible school, it doesn't mean that it's students are terrible. The competition is going to be intense, and I'm sorry to say, you have a severe disadvantage because you're not a native English speaker...and the exams are all in....English.

Lastly, to be even more honest, what makes you think that you'll graduate in the top 5-10% of your class? Your LSAT is extremely mediocre and your GPA (is that 3.0 out of 4.0?) just as mediocre. Your confidence that you'll transfer to a better school is good but it can be dangerous because nothing that you can show supports this claim.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

Literally do anything else rather than attend GGU

But I don't like my current job, earning minimum wages and everything is so messed up. I would like the US so much better.

That's admirable and fine, but attending GGU will likely not get you a better job in the US. There are a million other things that you can do in the US other than attend a bad law school that gives you almost no chance at getting the job you want.

*Unrelated: glad that TLS isn't blocked by the Great Firewall of China haha

I don't have a chance to go to the US, if I don't go to schools. I am committed to law schools, I am going to be a lawyer definitely, up on all other goals.

PS: TLS is known only among small percentage of people who want to go to law schools, besides, it has no finance conflicts, of course it is not gonna block TLS.

If you really want to be a lawyer, then take your applications seriously and apply to an actual law school. If you graduate from GGU, you have a 45% chance of passing the California Bar Exam. Only 34% of GGU graduates become lawyers. Your english is below average and so the bar exam will be much harder for you. You keep on saying "I'm confident in my ability to graduate top 10% and transfer to Berkeley." If you're actually serious about being a lawyer, then use that confidence in studying for your LSAT and going to an actual law school.

[BrainsyK]

Agreed about LSAT talk(,) but But I don't agree that you said my English is below average(.) I can speak good English (well) and my major is English literature. You have never met me(.) Youyou can't assume that (antecedent unclear). I met people from the US(.) They they thought I have been to or studied in the US after I talked to them (I can't even correct this without just rewriting it completely.) Since I took (the) LSAT, that means I have already seen some intimidating exams all... in English.

My problem to LSAT is that the logic part (good because lawyers don't need this)(.) I think I have the traditional Chinese logic, such as Confucianism (Totally irrelevant), that I am locked in the path(.) Sometimes, sometimes I can't figure out what your way of thinking (is). In the past six years I have worked closely with westerners(.) I tried to figure out the way of your thinking, but I was born as a Chinese, I can't change the thoughts that all people have and live next to them daily in a short period. Still I need to overcome, I know that(.) That's that's why I am thinking of to (a) retake.

Please don't go to law school without a significantly increased LSAT score. Even at top schools, those who need H1B VISAs probably have a disadvantage in hiring.

[UVA2B]

Horrible, horrible flame. Congrats though, you made it to 2 pages!

[lauraleeli]

Horrible, horrible flame. Congrats though, you made it to 2 pages!

Just spit out what I thought to be advantages to attend GGU, then I will understand how to act next.

[UVA2B]

You have endless possibilities at Golden Gate! I hear they pay their graduates to paint the bridge for 10 months following graduation! That'll be fun and interesting legal work.

[lauraleeli]

You have endless possibilities at Golden Gate! I hear they pay their graduates to paint the bridge for 10 months following graduation! That'll be fun and interesting legal work.

Well, first of all ,this is gossip. Second, paint the bridge is not any legal work. But may be it's interesting to paint the bridge though.

[UVA2B]

You have endless possibilities at Golden Gate! I hear they pay their graduates to paint the bridge for 10 months following graduation! That'll be fun and interesting legal work.

Well, first of all ,this is gossip. Second, paint the bridge is not any legal work. But may be it's interesting to paint the bridge though.

Tell that to all the GGU attorneys watching people get into car accidents on the bridge and capitalizing. Paint, tort, profit, amirite?

[A. Nony Mouse]

PS: Can I attend GGU, later drop out, then take LSAT and apply again? In doing this way, I don't have to stick in China, I really hate my situation here.

I'm not sure, but if you drop out, can you even stay in the US or would you have to go back to China? I assume that if you come, it would be on a student visa.

Yes, I will take a student visa, I don't know either if I drop out, I will still be allowed to stay in the US.

You won't, unless you find another visa of some kind.

[lauraleeli]

You have endless possibilities at Golden Gate! I hear they pay their graduates to paint the bridge for 10 months following graduation! That'll be fun and interesting legal work.

Well, first of all ,this is gossip. Second, paint the bridge is not any legal work. But may be it's interesting to paint the bridge though.

Tell that to all the GGU attorneys watching people get into car accidents on the bridge and capitalizing. Paint, tort, profit, amirite?

haha.
All in your assumptions and imaginations. Don't take those to LSAT, if you do, you will end up having my mediocre score.

[lauraleeli]

PS: Can I attend GGU, later drop out, then take LSAT and apply again? In doing this way, I don't have to stick in China, I really hate my situation here.

I'm not sure, but if you drop out, can you even stay in the US or would you have to go back to China? I assume that if you come, it would be on a student visa.

Yes, I will take a student visa, I don't know either if I drop out, I will still be allowed to stay in the US.

You won't, unless you find another visa of some kind.

I've known it already. Thanks though.

[UVA2B]

You have endless possibilities at Golden Gate! I hear they pay their graduates to paint the bridge for 10 months following graduation! That'll be fun and interesting legal work.

Well, first of all ,this is gossip. Second, paint the bridge is not any legal work. But may be it's interesting to paint the bridge though.

Tell that to all the GGU attorneys watching people get into car accidents on the bridge and capitalizing. Paint, tort, profit, amirite?

haha.
All in your assumptions and imaginations. Don't take those to LSAT, if you do, you will end up having my mediocre score.

I couldn't be prouder to ferret out your flamework. You're breaking character time and again, and I'm sorry you couldn't keep it going (credibly) any longer.

[lauraleeli]

You have endless possibilities at Golden Gate! I hear they pay their graduates to paint the bridge for 10 months following graduation! That'll be fun and interesting legal work.

Well, first of all ,this is gossip. Second, paint the bridge is not any legal work. But may be it's interesting to paint the bridge though.

Tell that to all the GGU attorneys watching people get into car accidents on the bridge and capitalizing. Paint, tort, profit, amirite?

haha.
All in your assumptions and imaginations. Don't take those to LSAT, if you do, you will end up having my mediocre score.

I couldn't be prouder to ferret out your flamework. You're breaking character time and again, and I'm sorry you couldn't keep it going (credibly) any longer.

I don't have any plan to what so called flamework. I simply ask people's opinions. You have stated yours, you may leave now, but other people will come up.

[mjb447]

Why do you think a professor of medicine would have any idea about law school admissions and legal career opportunities for international students?

(Hint: your contact may be a great professor in their field. They're an idiot when it comes to this subject.)

You may be right. But successful stories share some fundamental principles sometimes.

Only someone without experience would consider gainful employment for 60% of a school's bar passers as a school "doing well."

In any event, successful people are often terrible at rating how much their own success depended on luck. "f you are a hard worker and determined you would be successful wherever you go to school" and "the school only weights you down as much as you let it" are typically useless platitudes.

Then again, it could also be that none of GGU's unemployed graduates hustle or believe in themselves. That seems equally likely, doesn't it?

[lauraleeli]

Why do you think a professor of medicine would have any idea about law school admissions and legal career opportunities for international students?

(Hint: your contact may be a great professor in their field. They're an idiot when it comes to this subject.)

You may be right. But successful stories share some fundamental principles sometimes.

Only someone without experience would consider gainful employment for 60% of a school's bar passers as a school "doing well."

In any event, successful people are often terrible at rating how much their own success depended on luck. "f you are a hard worker and determined you would be successful wherever you go to school" and "the school only weights you down as much as you let it" are typically useless platitudes.

Then again, it could also be that none of GGU's unemployed graduates hustle or believe in themselves. That seems equally likely, doesn't it?

I know the figurative speech, but I still think I am a very hard work person even compare to other Chinese. You mean all employed GGU graduates hustle or believe in themselves?

[mjb447]

Why do you think a professor of medicine would have any idea about law school admissions and legal career opportunities for international students?

(Hint: your contact may be a great professor in their field. They're an idiot when it comes to this subject.)

You may be right. But successful stories share some fundamental principles sometimes.

Only someone without experience would consider gainful employment for 60% of a school's bar passers as a school "doing well."

In any event, successful people are often terrible at rating how much their own success depended on luck. "f you are a hard worker and determined you would be successful wherever you go to school" and "the school only weights you down as much as you let it" are typically useless platitudes.

Then again, it could also be that none of GGU's unemployed graduates hustle or believe in themselves. That seems equally likely, doesn't it?

I know the figurative speech, but I still think I am a very hard work person even compare to other Chinese. You mean all employed GGU graduates hustle or believe in themselves?

My point is that almost everyone in law school is hardworking, and whether you hustle/believe in yourself/don't let your school weigh you down has less to do with your outcome than things you can't control or that are decided the moment you pick a school. Advice to the contrary can be very dangerous if it encourages you to pay money and spend three years to go to a school with dismal employment outcomes.

[AJordan]

OP, I think you're serious for what it's worth, and I understand that your situation likely is different from most going to American law schools. You may have trouble upping your LSAT score because English is not your first language and the LSAT is difficult enough, even for Americans.

Some real talk, though, if you're coming to America to go to GGU and intending to stay you're giving yourself no shot except one of finding/marrying an American citizen within a 3 year time span. Your 1L year will essentially be split between trying to maintain your scholarship and trying to find husband material. GGU will almost certainly not land you a job that will keep you in the states, so that's your option. I get that you likely worked your butt off in Uni in Shanghai. Kudos. This is not going to have adequately prepared you for law school in the states. You're flying blind like the rest of the 1Ls and, let's be real, if you have a professor who notices your ESL writing (it's obvious) it may be a detriment to your grades.

So, if you are cool with busting your butt and finding a husband that's your best shot at meeting your goal. I wish you luck if that's what you ultimately choose. However, don't attend GGU thinking that you have any backup to that plan outside of a miracle.

Career first, marriage second!!!

Do you understand that only large firms (mostly) will have the resources to sponsor your work Visa and that GGU grads aren't competitive for those jobs?

[lauraleeli]

OP, I think you're serious for what it's worth, and I understand that your situation likely is different from most going to American law schools. You may have trouble upping your LSAT score because English is not your first language and the LSAT is difficult enough, even for Americans.

Some real talk, though, if you're coming to America to go to GGU and intending to stay you're giving yourself no shot except one of finding/marrying an American citizen within a 3 year time span. Your 1L year will essentially be split between trying to maintain your scholarship and trying to find husband material. GGU will almost certainly not land you a job that will keep you in the states, so that's your option. I get that you likely worked your butt off in Uni in Shanghai. Kudos. This is not going to have adequately prepared you for law school in the states. You're flying blind like the rest of the 1Ls and, let's be real, if you have a professor who notices your ESL writing (it's obvious) it may be a detriment to your grades.

So, if you are cool with busting your butt and finding a husband that's your best shot at meeting your goal. I wish you luck if that's what you ultimately choose. However, don't attend GGU thinking that you have any backup to that plan outside of a miracle.

Career first, marriage second!!!

Do you understand that only large firms (mostly) will have the resources to sponsor your work Visa and that GGU grads aren't competitive for those jobs?

Then, I'll get married in 3 years.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

Horrible, horrible flame. Congrats though, you made it to 2 pages!

Just spit out what I thought to be advantages to attend GGU, then I will understand how to act next.

I'm pretty sure "flame" isn't a commonly known terminology in China. Good job, troll. You outed yourself.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

Please just go to GGU and best of luck, troll.

"China doesn't send us their best and the brightest.They send us LauraLeeLi" - The Donald.

[galeatus]

Thank you very much for your analysis, it has been very helpful to me. I am actually thinking retake now already. I am just saying that 40K+10k covers my tuition, other costs I may prepare myself before I go to USA. Especially GGU has Honors Lawyering Program (“HLP”) and First Summer Trial and Evidence Program (“1st STEP”), and I have been enrolled by both programs, so I think I can start to work since 2L, therefore I might finance my life expenses. Also I can do some part time work such as translation to tip up myself a little bit.

Please DO NOT DO THIS. You can't register this type of work as OPT with your school (as it is unlikely that it can be considered relevant to your field of study that is law), which renders it as illegal employment and there have been multiple cases lately of students being refused re-entry into the US and having their visas revoked due to illegal employment. It will look especially bad if you are considering a legal career.

Speaking as a compatriot, please, for the love of god, retake and do not attend GGU, no matter how attractive the scholly options may seem. It is very unlikely for you to be able to remain in the US on a H1b upon graduation from GGU, and if you want to marry a US citizen, you don't have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to download Tinder. I will also add that a GGU degree won't help much in helping you find a decent job back in China either - even the bigger Chinese firms (think KWM/Dentons) now pretty much only hire grads from T1 law schools.

[lauraleeli]

Horrible, horrible flame. Congrats though, you made it to 2 pages!

Just spit out what I thought to be advantages to attend GGU, then I will understand how to act next.

I'm pretty sure "flame" isn't a commonly known terminology in China. Good job, troll. You outed yourself.

I might know more words than you do, even though you got a higher LSAT score than I do. Do you know “apocalyptic”, for instances?

[lauraleeli]

Thank you very much for your analysis, it has been very helpful to me. I am actually thinking retake now already. I am just saying that 40K+10k covers my tuition, other costs I may prepare myself before I go to USA. Especially GGU has Honors Lawyering Program (“HLP”) and First Summer Trial and Evidence Program (“1st STEP”), and I have been enrolled by both programs, so I think I can start to work since 2L, therefore I might finance my life expenses. Also I can do some part time work such as translation to tip up myself a little bit.

Please DO NOT DO THIS. You can't register this type of work as OPT with your school (as it is unlikely that it can be considered relevant to your field of study that is law), which renders it as illegal employment and there have been multiple cases lately of students being refused re-entry into the US and having their visas revoked due to illegal employment. It will look especially bad if you are considering a legal career.

Speaking as a compatriot, please, for the love of god, retake and do not attend GGU, no matter how attractive the scholly options may seem. It is very unlikely for you to be able to remain in the US on a H1b upon graduation from GGU, and if you want to marry a US citizen, you don't have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to download Tinder. I will also add that a GGU degree won't help much in helping you find a decent job back in China either - even the bigger Chinese firms (think KWM/Dentons) now pretty much only hire grads from T1 law schools.

Your opinion is making some sense to me, but for some words, I think they are too extreme. I really don't care how are Chinese big law firms going to be. I only look forward to my own career path. I don't think GGU graduates are not going to live at last without entering big law firms.

[galeatus]

Thank you very much for your analysis, it has been very helpful to me. I am actually thinking retake now already. I am just saying that 40K+10k covers my tuition, other costs I may prepare myself before I go to USA. Especially GGU has Honors Lawyering Program (“HLP”) and First Summer Trial and Evidence Program (“1st STEP”), and I have been enrolled by both programs, so I think I can start to work since 2L, therefore I might finance my life expenses. Also I can do some part time work such as translation to tip up myself a little bit.

Please DO NOT DO THIS. You can't register this type of work as OPT with your school (as it is unlikely that it can be considered relevant to your field of study that is law), which renders it as illegal employment and there have been multiple cases lately of students being refused re-entry into the US and having their visas revoked due to illegal employment. It will look especially bad if you are considering a legal career.

Speaking as a compatriot, please, for the love of god, retake and do not attend GGU, no matter how attractive the scholly options may seem. It is very unlikely for you to be able to remain in the US on a H1b upon graduation from GGU, and if you want to marry a US citizen, you don't have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to download Tinder. I will also add that a GGU degree won't help much in helping you find a decent job back in China either - even the bigger Chinese firms (think KWM/Dentons) now pretty much only hire grads from T1 law schools.

Your opinion is making some sense to me, but for some words, I think they are too extreme. I really don't care how is Chinese big law firms going to be. I only look forward to my own career path. I don't think GGU graduates are not going to live at last without entering big law firms.

You're absolutely right, but you, unlike the majority of GGU grads, need some sort of visa to live in the US, which changes everything.

Also, these aren't exactly opinions, I was just trying to lay some facts out for you as a bit of a warning (as was many others ITT), but it seems clear that you've made your mind up already and are merely trying to get some sort of confirmation from a forum that is famous for telling 170/3.8 applicants to retake - good luck with that.

[lauraleeli]

Thank you very much for your analysis, it has been very helpful to me. I am actually thinking retake now already. I am just saying that 40K+10k covers my tuition, other costs I may prepare myself before I go to USA. Especially GGU has Honors Lawyering Program (“HLP”) and First Summer Trial and Evidence Program (“1st STEP”), and I have been enrolled by both programs, so I think I can start to work since 2L, therefore I might finance my life expenses. Also I can do some part time work such as translation to tip up myself a little bit.

Please DO NOT DO THIS. You can't register this type of work as OPT with your school (as it is unlikely that it can be considered relevant to your field of study that is law), which renders it as illegal employment and there have been multiple cases lately of students being refused re-entry into the US and having their visas revoked due to illegal employment. It will look especially bad if you are considering a legal career.

Speaking as a compatriot, please, for the love of god, retake and do not attend GGU, no matter how attractive the scholly options may seem. It is very unlikely for you to be able to remain in the US on a H1b upon graduation from GGU, and if you want to marry a US citizen, you don't have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to download Tinder. I will also add that a GGU degree won't help much in helping you find a decent job back in China either - even the bigger Chinese firms (think KWM/Dentons) now pretty much only hire grads from T1 law schools.

Your opinion is making some sense to me, but for some words, I think they are too extreme. I really don't care how is Chinese big law firms going to be. I only look forward to my own career path. I don't think GGU graduates are not going to live at last without entering big law firms.

You're absolutely right, but you, unlike the majority of GGU grads, need some sort of visa to live in the US, which changes everything.

Also, these aren't exactly opinions, I was just trying to lay some facts out for you as a bit of a warning (as was many others ITT), but it seems clear that you've made your mind up already and are merely trying to get some sort of confirmation from a forum that is famous for telling 170/3.8 applicants to retake - good luck with that.

I owe you a thank you though. I am not looking for confirmation or anything. I hope someone can really persuade me or defeat me, I am really stubborn and obstinate sometimes. And I want to make best out of it. People with cynical ideas can't convince me at all. Of course, I am not saying you're cynical.