MANY QUESTIONS! URM/REPEAT CLASSES/ETC Forum

[Eee666]

I predict op will have difficulty on the lsat.

[prospectiveT14]

How can you graduate from an institution with the institution declaring you have a 4.0, graduate with distinction even...but LSAC considers it less because of previous Fs....."hi yes I graduated cum laude but your law school thinks I have a 2.7....ok" it just doesn't seem to make any sense


I'm thinking the dean can do an administrative adjustment to my transcript since I don't need more than 60, and he can just remove the Fs like a technical mistake

?

Why would counting both As and Fs be less fair when it comes to competitive admissions than just counting your retakes? You got both Fs and As. Other people would have only gotten the A and that should be viewed differently than your situation in the eyes of adcomms. It's not like the As don't count at all, they're weighted alongside bad grades. and It wasn't a technical mistake.... You failed classes. They'll see the retakes and see improved grades, which is the most accurate depiction of your situation. The exact reason LSAC GPAs exist is to even out discrepancies like those between institutions that give out 4.0s with Fs, those institutions that wouldn't allow it for others, and people with 4.0s without retaken classes.

I was on a cocktail of medications and instead of dropping the class mid-way I was hospitalized for anxiety over and over again. No, I didn't fail the classes, I had A's on the assignments when my emotional strength would allow it. At one point I was juggling 7 classes with special permission from the dean and taking a level 4000 course as a freshman because I was interested in the subject. but being tested meds out on isn't the greatest experience, especially at a young age coming out of high school when I already felt inadequate to others in a big ocean like college. So no I didn't fail, I never got around to dropping some courses. They have petitions for situations like these for this very reason.

[jjking]

Try to get a retroactive (medical?) withdrawal from the classes you failed. That will turn the F's in Ws. Thats the best thing you can do now to get your GPA up. Whats your GPA with the F's in?

[LandMermaid]

How can you graduate from an institution with the institution declaring you have a 4.0, graduate with distinction even...but LSAC considers it less because of previous Fs....."hi yes I graduated cum laude but your law school thinks I have a 2.7....ok" it just doesn't seem to make any sense


I'm thinking the dean can do an administrative adjustment to my transcript since I don't need more than 60, and he can just remove the Fs like a technical mistake

?

Why would counting both As and Fs be less fair when it comes to competitive admissions than just counting your retakes? You got both Fs and As. Other people would have only gotten the A and that should be viewed differently than your situation in the eyes of adcomms. It's not like the As don't count at all, they're weighted alongside bad grades. and It wasn't a technical mistake.... You failed classes. They'll see the retakes and see improved grades, which is the most accurate depiction of your situation. The exact reason LSAC GPAs exist is to even out discrepancies like those between institutions that give out 4.0s with Fs, those institutions that wouldn't allow it for others, and people with 4.0s without retaken classes.

I was on a cocktail of medications and instead of dropping the class mid-way I was hospitalized for anxiety over and over again. No, I didn't fail the classes, I had A's on the assignments when my emotional strength would allow it. At one point I was juggling 7 classes with special permission from the dean and taking a level 4000 course as a freshman because I was interested in the subject. but being tested meds out on isn't the greatest experience, especially at a young age coming out of high school when I already felt inadequate to others in a big ocean like college. So no I didn't fail, I never got around to dropping some courses. They have petitions for situations like these for this very reason.

Like the other guy said, get it changed to a medical withdrawal then! LSAC is used as an equalizer so if you don't feel like it's working in that regard that's the best thing to do. According to your transcripts, you got an F, so currently that's the only thing that matters until you get it altered. Making it an "admin error" seems a little dishonest/unethical but a medical withdrawal seems like it would be appropriate here.

[A. Nony Mouse]

How can you graduate from an institution with the institution declaring you have a 4.0, graduate with distinction even...but LSAC considers it less because of previous Fs....."hi yes I graduated cum laude but your law school thinks I have a 2.7....ok" it just doesn't seem to make any sense


I'm thinking the dean can do an administrative adjustment to my transcript since I don't need more than 60, and he can just remove the Fs like a technical mistake

?

No, that's not at all how it works and a dean won't do that - don't ask. You don't just get to pick which parts of your educational history count.

But yes, if you failed to drop classes due to medical issues you can ask for a retroactive medical withdrawal. They may or may not grant it, but it's worth trying.

[prospectiveT14]

A dean can do a lot in his power. The last dean of my school allowed me to override existing debt ($2k) I had with the college, register for classes AND take out another loan against the college + book loan.

Without that exception I wouldn't have been able to finish college. I paid all the money back and was able to pay for new classes too, I even wrote to her on FB and she was so glad to hear that a decision she made had made a difference. Was sad to hear she's no longer with the college.

And yes, they're called "administrative adjustments" and they can happen internally. Never heard of retroactive medical withdrawal.

[mwells56]

So are you going to accept any advice from these people or are you just going to angrily respond to everyone that says something that counts against you?

Hey, your situation sucks. I get it. But withdrawing to W's is the best realistic option you've got. Bottom line is, these schools need to report their GPAs to the rankings, and regardless of circumstance your GPA would hurt their medians. At the end of the day, these schools are businesses and they're going to do what's best for them.

Get the W's, write an addendum. Do well on the LSAT, keep improving your GPA, and you'll get to where you want to go. I sincerely wish you good luck.

[A. Nony Mouse]

A dean can do a lot in his power. The last dean of my school allowed me to override existing debt ($2k) I had with the college, register for classes AND take out another loan against the college + book loan.

Without that exception I wouldn't have been able to finish college. I paid all the money back and was able to pay for new classes too, I even wrote to her on FB and she was so glad to hear that a decision she made had made a difference. Was sad to hear she's no longer with the college.

And yes, they're called "administrative adjustments" and they can happen internally. Never heard of retroactive medical withdrawal.

Yeah, no.

[Barack O'Drama]

Idk what it is, but one of my biggest pet peeves is when someone asks questions and then just blindly refutes the answers they get.

Retroactive withdrawals are the way to go, OP. I'm sure the dean can unethically remove the Fs from your transcript, but they aren't going to under any circumstances. It is literally unheard of, and, again, unethical. Since you have the documentation showing you were hospitalized getting the Ws will most likely be a piece of cake.

I don't actually see any harm in beginning to prepare for the LSAT now so long as you have the time to dedicate to it. The people I know who ended up doing the worst were people who studied over a long period of time inconsistently. You end up burning through material and not really instilling much of what you've learned.

You won't get a URM boost, but you have a good story and seemed to have gotten your life together. Write a good PS, get good LOR, and shoot & study for a high LSAT score.

Also, don't go to UM. They had nearly 20% unemployment in 2015 according to LST http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/miami/jobs/2015/

66% employed in a job as an attorney. So 3 out of 10 people go and don't even practice law. If I have learned anything from this great forum, it is to aim high and base school choice off employability. Even with a full scholarship I think it imprudent to spend 3 years for those odds.

[cavalier1138]

Your 8 Fs will be calculated even if you retake the classes. And no, your competition at Miami will not be Harvard grads with purple hearts.

The guy I intern with, he's a 2L at UM and tells me one of his classmates in law school detonates bombs for the military

Like...yeah, that school recruits exceptional ppl

I'm not quite sure what your line of thinking is on that. Detonating bombs in the military is something that sounds really cool, but it doesn't indicate that the student had exceptional grades or scores. I highly doubt that Miami was looking for someone with bomb disposal experience to round out their class.

[Mikey]

OP, just do great on the LSAT, improve your GPA as much as you can before you graduate, and write a good personal statement. There's nothing you can do about how LSAC calculates GPA's, you just have to deal with it like everyone else.

Also, don't worry about what other people have done in their past (the guy from the military), because worrying about them won't do anything for you. Focus on yourself and improving YOUR chances of going where you want.

Good luck OP

[prospectiveT14]

So are you going to accept any advice from these people or are you just going to angrily respond to everyone that says something that counts against you?

Hey, your situation sucks. I get it. But withdrawing to W's is the best realistic option you've got. Bottom line is, these schools need to report their GPAs to the rankings, and regardless of circumstance your GPA would hurt their medians. At the end of the day, these schools are businesses and they're going to do what's best for them.

Get the W's, write an addendum. Do well on the LSAT, keep improving your GPA, and you'll get to where you want to go. I sincerely wish you good luck.

w...who is angry? Are you mad that I don't just take information at face value on the internet? lol like what
If I have a different experience that defies blanket statements like "yeah no deans don't do that" then of course I'm going to share
and if you notice I have been saying "thank you for the replies"

[prospectiveT14]

Your 8 Fs will be calculated even if you retake the classes. And no, your competition at Miami will not be Harvard grads with purple hearts.

The guy I intern with, he's a 2L at UM and tells me one of his classmates in law school detonates bombs for the military

Like...yeah, that school recruits exceptional ppl

I'm not quite sure what your line of thinking is on that. Detonating bombs in the military is something that sounds really cool, but it doesn't indicate that the student had exceptional grades or scores. I highly doubt that Miami was looking for someone with bomb disposal experience to round out their class.

from a law admission POV - being in a position where -you're- the one in charge of detonating bombs in your military group says a lot. he's not just using brute force and training on the field...he's using his mind and they hold him responsible if anything goes wrong with the bomb. I'm sure that wasn't an easy position to fill. that says a tonnnnnn

[prospectiveT14]

Idk what it is, but one of my biggest pet peeves is when someone asks questions and then just blindly refutes the answers they get.

it's called having a conversation and not absorbing everything people say on the internet as fact. yes, I have my own stories that contradict with what people are saying on here. Just because that's the case doesn't mean I'm "blindly refuting" I don't understand the prestige here on these forums. Just because someone had ONE law school experience doesn't negate my undergraduate experiences.

Also, don't go to UM. They had nearly 20% unemployment in 2015 according to LST http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/miami/jobs/2015/

I don't buy the unemployment shtick because of the unlikeliness that those surveying techniques can really be effective. They're not chasing down EVERY law school grad and forcing them to tell the truth as to whether they got hired or not. Those kinds of statistics are much harder to control once it's not in house, you don't have a bunch of kids checking boxes on applications to enter your institution anymore. Either way, it's not like a JD is a "waste of time." I wanted to pursue law school out of high school and began taking practice LSATs at that point, now is when I returned to it when I realized I had a stable strategy for getting through school. In b4 "why do you want to be a lawyer, anyway?"


I would go to FIU I'm sure since their medians are low and it's a tier 3...maybe even tier 4 (despite good bar passage rates). It would be very convenient because I live close but ehhhhhhhhhh what a cop out. And a big part of me thinks it's highly irresponsible to not be working and saving money while in school, like I have this immense paranoia. I know they make you do a contract if you're full time that you can't work so that concerns me. I want to devote all my time to my studies but not working would mean not going into my 30's with a savings and that's SCARY. My parents are really really old, anything can happen, and I'm already paying for a leased car, car insurance, phone, food, gas, school, and other miscellaneous financial burdens. I can't imagine paying rent on top of everything when my time doesn't allow me for a full time job.

i wish I knew what it was like to feel financially stable without worry. must be nice for parents who have the luxury to provide that peace to their kids, that's the goal amirite

[prospectiveT14]

A dean can do a lot in his power. The last dean of my school allowed me to override existing debt ($2k) I had with the college, register for classes AND take out another loan against the college + book loan.

Without that exception I wouldn't have been able to finish college. I paid all the money back and was able to pay for new classes too, I even wrote to her on FB and she was so glad to hear that a decision she made had made a difference. Was sad to hear she's no longer with the college.

And yes, they're called "administrative adjustments" and they can happen internally. Never heard of retroactive medical withdrawal.

Yeah, no.

I very clearly described how deans have flexible policies that they can overrule and your explanation is "yeah, no."

[cavalier1138]

Your 8 Fs will be calculated even if you retake the classes. And no, your competition at Miami will not be Harvard grads with purple hearts.

The guy I intern with, he's a 2L at UM and tells me one of his classmates in law school detonates bombs for the military

Like...yeah, that school recruits exceptional ppl

I'm not quite sure what your line of thinking is on that. Detonating bombs in the military is something that sounds really cool, but it doesn't indicate that the student had exceptional grades or scores. I highly doubt that Miami was looking for someone with bomb disposal experience to round out their class.

from a law admission POV - being in a position where -you're- the one in charge of detonating bombs in your military group says a lot. he's not just using brute force and training on the field...he's using his mind and they hold him responsible if anything goes wrong with the bomb. I'm sure that wasn't an easy position to fill. that says a tonnnnnn

I didn't say this hypothetical guy (because you don't actually know him) doesn't have many amazing qualities. I said that you have no idea what his grades and scores are or how well he's doing in law school. The talents that it takes to defuse a bomb might not translate perfectly into a legal career.

I'm sure his military background helped him, but I also guarantee you that no school went out of their way to "recruit" him solely due to that experience.

Also, absolutely hilarious that you think schools' employment reports aren't trustworthy because they might under-report employment. Just magnificent.

[prospectiveT14]

I didn't say this hypothetical guy (because you don't actually know him) doesn't have many amazing qualities. I said that you have no idea what his grades and scores are or how well he's doing in law school. The talents that it takes to defuse a bomb might not translate perfectly into a legal career.

you're right, I'll ask my colleague tomorrow about the guy if he maybe knows more. But the bios on the Miami Scholars scholarships are super intimidating, it makes it seem like these schools value people who did no less than win the nobel prize during undergrad. It's hard sometimes to see if I'm seeing things clearly if it's just this permanent state of anxiety.

Also, absolutely hilarious that you think schools' employment reports aren't trustworthy because they might under-report employment. Just magnificent.

ha! but it would be unethical, no? To overreport? My sociology teacher admits too there's a lot of gray area in statistics that's not reliable. he gets meeeeee

[prospectiveT14]

btw the underlying arrest reason was DUI, but amended to reckless. long story, the cop arrested me outside my neighborhood, I was slightly above the legal limit and was sober and crying and begging for him to just let me call my parents or walk home but he wouldn't let me..he had pulled me over and asked me if I had been drinking. Scared to lie - I told him yes but it was hours ago and that's when it all went downhill from there...and he was a DUI cop so he had the breathalyzer in his trunk. I told him no I can't blow that it would ruin my clean record and he said "i have to". Not knowing what that meant (was he going to physically force me? Would I go to jail if I didn't?) I blew because I had no other choice, or thought I didn't. (I had never ever researched a DUI because I honestly never thought that cops take it to that extreme unless you look belligerent and are uncooperative) I wish they would have had DUI LEGAL education in school, not just about accidents because everyone thinks an accident won't happen to them. And it didn't, mine was not accident related. The cop said I took a flashing red..

that being said, I know that schools don't view substance abuse like the best thing. Do I have to explain the whole thing? Can I explain that DUI tier 1 is not the same tier 2 (over .15) and that I thought I was under the legal limit before getting in the car, it was a slip of judgment and a merciless cop? the truth is, he was. the reason I'm in therapy is because I had never encountered such an evil person who was so happy to see that I would go to jail for a night. scared, terrified, and in small pajamas (was leaving a friends house at 3 AM). He didn't give a shit that I was walking distance from my parents house, that I was honest with him, that I wasn't really drunk at all and was cooperating 100%, that I had told him I was in school and I would never get hired if he did this to me. and then there's many more details to the arrest that left me shocked but my PD told me that despite it being unfair, those things don't hold up in court, only the evidence of the blow does unfortunately. he had the ability to use discretion and he didn't. Discretion is legal and I wasn't just some angry person who got pulled over who didn't give a shit and was spitting attitude at a cop. I was short of getting on my knees and begging because I felt so helpless. Discretion should be used when you think someones not drunk and when you see they're actually really concerned about having an arrest record when they've never had one before. Can't tell you how many days I wake up wishing this was a bad dream.

and there's no dash cam footage or intersection footage. i h8 everything. crazy how in one minute someone can permanently affect the rest of your life and no matter what it will be their (reputably credible) word against yours. judges and cops are buddies buddies!!!!

[A. Nony Mouse]

A dean can do a lot in his power. The last dean of my school allowed me to override existing debt ($2k) I had with the college, register for classes AND take out another loan against the college + book loan.

Without that exception I wouldn't have been able to finish college. I paid all the money back and was able to pay for new classes too, I even wrote to her on FB and she was so glad to hear that a decision she made had made a difference. Was sad to hear she's no longer with the college.

And yes, they're called "administrative adjustments" and they can happen internally. Never heard of retroactive medical withdrawal.

Yeah, no.

I very clearly described how deans have flexible policies that they can overrule and your explanation is "yeah, no."

You're saying that a dean can just decide to remove part of your educational history that you're not happy with. Yes, I am saying "yeah, no." Of course deans have a lot of power. But overriding a financial hold on your record is completely different from getting rid of classes you don't like on your transcript. Do you have actual experience of that happening? Because I used to teach college, and I have spent a lot of time on this site, which is filled with applicants who are in the same position as you with regard to Fs on their transcript, and in neither context have I ever heard of any kind of "administrative adjustment" whereby a dean just removes classes because you don't like them or don't need them. I don't even know what mechanism could be used to do that. However, people have reported getting retroactive medical withdrawals (others have been unsuccessful in getting them). The result is the same but the process is very different and the process actually matters. So I'm trying to suggest that if you just ask the dean to take classes off your record you're doomed to failure and might want to explore a different avenue.

Also, if you blew above the legal limit on a breathalyzer you weren't actually sober. I'm not sure why the cop doing his job was unfair, or why it matters that you were within walking distance of your parents house since you were driving. He did use his discretion, you just don't agree with how he exercised it. But don't worry about it, it's not going to affect your law school admissions. Many many people get into law schools with DUIs on their records. You will need to write a brief addendum explaining what happened and you will need to make sure to accept responsibility and not say it was the fault of an evil cop, but unless you have any other issues that would suggest any kind of chronic problem, it will not affect your applications at all.

[prospectiveT14]

Also, if you blew above the legal limit on a breathalyzer you weren't actually sober. I'm not sure why the cop doing his job was unfair, or why it matters that you were within walking distance of your parents house since you were driving. But don't worry about it, it's not going to affect your law school admissions. Many many people get into law schools with DUIs on their records. You will need to write a brief addendum explaining what happened and you will need to make sure to accept responsibility and not say it was the fault of an evil cop, but unless you have any other issues that would suggest any kind of chronic problem, it will not affect your applications at all.

Being sober as in no alcohol in my system is not what I mean, being sober as in being in a non-impaired state of mind, being able to pass the field sobriety test and perform well. The legal limit is very questionable which is why there are breathalyzer experts. Even things like cough drops can make those things go berserk. Everyone's body chemistry and tolerance is different. I don't drink regularly because I don't feel the effects the same way people do. While a lot of people feel loose and happy I find myself to focus more and it becomes, ironically, a buzzkill. That doesn't mean that in social settings I don't share drinks with people. Also, I know people who were not breathalyzed until 4 hours after they got into a car accident. Imagine the discrepancy in the reading. I got breathalyzed on the scene when my BAC could have been higher than if he had waited the allotted 20 minutes (which he was supposed to do and failed to do it.) This cop was aggressive and didn't read me my rights. You don't know the full story. I was handcuffed and forced to sign a paper handcuffed. They think you're not sober enough to drive but they find you perfectly sober to understand what's on a piece of paper in the dark. A piece of paper that will affect the rest of your life. Being read your rights while intoxicated is a huge debate in the legal world.

And the fact that DUIs are treated like a totally separate animal as compared to texting and driving. The cop was fucking TEXTING and driving on the highway going 80 on the way to the jail. When I pointed it out he put his radio station up. Before we got in the car I asked him where we were going because he wasn't telling me anything and I was scared and he said "somewhere where people like you go."

Again, discretion should have been used. Just because someone violates the law does not mean they merit punishment. Look up "jury nullification"
The cop didn't have a clear answer as to what law I violated, either, because the first thing I asked him was "Hi officer, is there a reason you're pulling me over?"

Another issue that really grinds my gears is that cops are not on the forefront of these situations, they're on the backend, after the fact. Let me know when a cop asks you stumbling out of a bar if you have a safe ride home. Where are the BAC machines out of bars? Where are the signs in bars that say "don't drink and drive!...Call an uber!" US has the biggest incarceration problem in the world, and the quotas for these police departments have been leaked in the forms of letters and e-mails. The truth is out, they need to get their numbers up and preying on people who would be scared to stand up to a cop is perfect for them.

[Good Guy Gaud]

THE TRUTH IS OUT

[A. Nony Mouse]

Again, you don't get to decide what is an appropriate exercise of discretion. And if there are so many problems with your case then you could have pled not guilty and challenged them - people do win DUI cases, and it sounds like you weren't in a position to do so. The legal limits being questionable is not the same as you being below the legal limit. And your point about signing the paper 1) suggests that you actually were read your rights if you're complaining about how it's unfair to expect you to understand them if intoxicated, and 2) goes against your argument that you were perfectly sober and fine. Either you were, so you could sign the paper, or you weren't, which means the DUI was merited.

Him texting is stupid but not actually anything to do with your own culpability.

Like, I get that it was probably an intensely unpleasant experience, and I get that people can argue that there are issues with our DUI regime. That's not actually the measure of whether your personal arrest was fair or legal.

In any case, like I said, it doesn't matter. But you will have to be able to write about it in a way that accepts responsibility to show to law schools that it's not actually an issue.

[prospectiveT14]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0atL1HSwi8[/youtube]

Let's shed some light on the legal system. People are paying the price for a lifetime for juvenile mistakes that have no bearing on who they are as an adult.

[prospectiveT14]

Again, you don't get to decide what is an appropriate exercise of discretion. And if there are so many problems with your case then you could have pled not guilty and challenged them - people do win DUI cases, and it sounds like you weren't in a position to do so. The legal limits being questionable is not the same as you being below the legal limit. And your point about signing the paper 1) suggests that you actually were read your rights if you're complaining about how it's unfair to expect you to understand them if intoxicated, and 2) goes against your argument that you were perfectly sober and fine. Either you were, so you could sign the paper, or you weren't, which means the DUI was merited.

Like, I get that it was probably an intensely unpleasant experience, and I get that people can argue that there are issues with our DUI regime. That's not actually the measure of whether your personal arrest was fair or legal.

unpleasant? it was traumatic. I'm in trauma therapy. You have no idea what it's like to go to jail, to be pushed around. To be told you WILL take a mugshot or you do not get to come out of this isolated cell. You don't get to use the bathroom, or eat until you do that. You are treated like garbage. Subhuman. You are asked to strip and expose your inner body parts to prove to not one but TWO sets of people (different areas of the jail you get moved to) that you don't have anything inside your crevaces! You don't get told when you can get out or when you are allowed to make a phone call, you have no idea when your bond will post and you can't ask because you get yelled at by the guards. To quote the stanford rape victim "You do not know me but you have been inside of me"

And that's what it feels like, day in, day out. The memory of someone violating you fading in all the time, reminding me you of a mistake you can't escape.

[LandMermaid]

As a semi irrelevant aside, cops asked about me and my friends multiple times in a couple of different cities, just to make sure we were doing okay and had a ride back to where we were going. It's not particularly unheard of. I had a cop call an uber for me on his phone and pay for it once because my phone died. These blanket statements of blame/insistence that policies designed to be standardized are unfair simply because you were on the wrong side of them need to be somethinh you watch for in addenda for your applications.