I am totally getting cold feet about this whole thing Forum

[Danger Zone]

OP, you are delusional if you think there's anything romantic or incredibly fulfilling about the work we do.

[Paul Campos]

What law school are you considering and how much is it going to cost? It makes a huge difference, and not providing this information makes the advice you're getting far less useful than it would otherwise be.

[EnderWiggin]

Your fear that the school you got into won't accept you again may be unfounded. Have you considered asking them if they would grant you a deferral? That way you wouldn't even have to reapply and you could take another year.

The checking on deferral advice is credited. Think it's worth pointing out that one of the schools OP has been accepted to is HLS and (anecdotally) a couple of strong applicants were dinged this week after being accepted to Harvard in a prior cycle and choosing not to matriculate. YMMV with other schools but it would seem that might not be an uncommon outcome with any school concerned about yield.

[lymenheimer]

However, a more modest career goal of clerkship -> doj/academia/phd -> public policy/run for office/research/impact litigation/whatever is not that unlikely.

heh. "modest"

[lunixer]

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[lunixer]

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[fliptrip]

Your fear that the school you got into won't accept you again may be unfounded. Have you considered asking them if they would grant you a deferral? That way you wouldn't even have to reapply and you could take another year.

The checking on deferral advice is credited. Think it's worth pointing out that one of the schools OP has been accepted to is HLS and (anecdotally) a couple of strong applicants were dinged this week after being accepted to Harvard in a prior cycle and choosing not to matriculate. YMMV with other schools but it would seem that might not be an uncommon outcome with any school concerned about yield.

*raising my hand meekly to affirm that, even if Ender wasn't specifically thinking about me, I am indeed one of these accepted once, rejected on the rebound kind of candidates. I even improved my LSAT from when I was first accepted and they still played me to the left.

Since Harvard is an option for you, at least we know you aren't making an objectively poor decision, as long as you can live with the idea of your worst outcome being stuck in BigLaw somewhere for a spell and then getting into something else.

I frankly think that the vigor with which you've defended yourself says to me that you've already made this choice and are just suffering from some cold feet. So, let me be the first to say it, it is perfectly okay to go to Harvard Law School. Nothing in life is candies and roses, but on balance you will be fine taking this path even if you hate every waking moment of it. Three years of suffering might even be character building for you.

[smaug]

*looks at stopped work timer, disgusted*

Ok let's consider the outcome you desire:

High profile impact litigation: one of the hardest (the hardest?) jobs to get in the field. Also, a job you've never done before and likely have no idea what the work would be like.

Other outcomes: you haven't given any, but you said biglaw: easily achievable from a good school but unfulfilling for most. Even if you do find it fulfilling, it will take you many years to reach the break-even point economically, and at that point you will likely be editing to job that does not pay as well.

Alternatives:

Inaction: low risk low reward. You continue to be unhappy but you probably end up ahead of where you would be otherwise.

Schooling: you could go back to school and do something else.

Finding a job using your current credentials: as I explained before, you have SEVEN YEARS to get in a position better than your current one, and you can achieve this without the downsides present in law school.

You are naïve because you don't appreciate how good your situation is. You want to strive and think you could achieve more with a law degree. Statistically speaking, that's dubious. Existentially, that reality, once you internalize it, might be crippling.

I am a graduate of a T6 school who landed at a mildly PREFTIGIOUS biglaw firm. I am a first year but I still like the work so far. Part of why I like it is because my alternatives were very shitty. I am also not the norm: my peers are generally less happy than I am. I know many other first years who already are running the clock until they leave for their clerkship or exit biglaw. It's a lifestyle that isn't compatible with living. You need to sacrifice your life to it.

For my even more prestigious friends, things are more similar than disimilar. Everyone clerking seems to enjoy it. Most are returning to biglaw afterwards.

I don't know anyone who managed to get an impact lit job. Godspeed in that. Even from Harvard/Stanford, my impression is that it's a superlative outcome that one shouldn't count on. From a T6 it is so rare as to be nonexistent.

I am a visitor from your future who isn't even saying "never go," which is the advice I'd give to most. I'm saying "wait until you're certain. Law school will be there when you're 30." I don't regret my choices, but I'm not so arrogant as to think I chose the best possible path. I think you should think a little longer so you're at least as comfortable with things as I was. It doesn't sound like you are.

[lunixer]

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[Tls2016]

Lawyer isn't the highest paid if you include the debt and the number of unemployed and lower end salaries. If you are chasing prestige, then you are with all the 0Ls and lurkers on the board. My bet is at least half of them shouldn't go and will regret it. Even the T6 people, I know a bunch of them.

I thought your concern was based on not getting the scholarship you hoped and looking at debt you don't want. Maybe stay focused on that as the debt is real and isn't going away as oppose to these intangibles.

[smaug]

However, a more modest career goal of clerkship -> doj/academia/phd -> public policy/run for office/research/impact litigation/whatever is not that unlikely.

heh. "modest"

I am basing that on what people who claim to be recent hls grads have told me on Reddit.

Ask them to prove it. This seems absolutely deluded to me. Clerkship -> anything better than a lit boutique is generally deluded.

And, best part? After learning they won't make partner at that boutique where do they end up? Biglaw with the dregs.

*checks out of thread; restarts clock*

[smaug]

Ok I lied one last post,

As a relatively high performing Columbia law grad, I'm dying over the Kool-Aid that Harvard 0Ls/current students must be drinking. Look up the numbers. What you're talking about is a very, very rare outcome.

[lunixer]

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[lunixer]

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[mist4bison]

Thanks dude. That's does make me feel better. I really do wish that someone would say "here's precisely why it's better to stay than go" (to counter the pressure from parents who want to say that their son goes to Harvard) but I guess you're right that neither choice is objectively bad. :/:/:/

You need to do that for yourself.

Also, I'm jumping on the "you're romanticizing the law" bandwagon. Most lawyers sit in their offices all day, alone, basically shuffling papers. If you decide to defer, or maybe if you have the opportunity before law school (unlikely due to timing), you should consider working in a firm. It opens your eyes to what lawyers really do, even lawyers from HLS. There are plenty at my firm that sit in their offices, alone, shuffling papers for about 6 years before they're even a blip on anyone's radar. Not trying to be harsh, just realize that your expectations might be shattered if you keep them where they are.

[kcdc1]

I really love my life and where I live, but know that if I don't go to school this year I'll regret it for the rest of my life. Wouldn't have had this dilemma if I hadn't applied in the first place.

This is irrational. Weigh your options, make a choice.

[cron1834]

Woe is me, I have to choose between my cushy Fedgov job and HLS.

[smaug]

If you aren't ok with biglaw, aren't ok with smalllaw, don't want to do PD/DA work, and don't want to do actual low-paying PI work, don't go to law school.

The remaining outcomes are too rare.

[Nagster5]

*looks at stopped work timer, disgusted*

Ok let's consider the outcome you desire:

High profile impact litigation: one of the hardest (the hardest?) jobs to get in the field. Also, a job you've never done before and likely have no idea what the work would be like.

Other outcomes: you haven't given any, but you said biglaw: easily achievable from a good school but unfulfilling for most. Even if you do find it fulfilling, it will take you many years to reach the break-even point economically, and at that point you will likely be editing to job that does not pay as well.

Alternatives:

Inaction: low risk low reward. You continue to be unhappy but you probably end up ahead of where you would be otherwise.

Schooling: you could go back to school and do something else.

Finding a job using your current credentials: as I explained before, you have SEVEN YEARS to get in a position better than your current one, and you can achieve this without the downsides present in law school.

You are naïve because you don't appreciate how good your situation is. You want to strive and think you could achieve more with a law degree. Statistically speaking, that's dubious. Existentially, that reality, once you internalize it, might be crippling.

I am a graduate of a T6 school who landed at a mildly PREFTIGIOUS biglaw firm. I am a first year but I still like the work so far. Part of why I like it is because my alternatives were very shitty. I am also not the norm: my peers are generally less happy than I am. I know many other first years who already are running the clock until they leave for their clerkship or exit biglaw. It's a lifestyle that isn't compatible with living. You need to sacrifice your life to it.

For my even more prestigious friends, things are more similar than disimilar. Everyone clerking seems to enjoy it. Most are returning to biglaw afterwards.

I don't know anyone who managed to get an impact lit job. Godspeed in that. Even from Harvard/Stanford, my impression is that it's a superlative outcome that one shouldn't count on. From a T6 it is so rare as to be nonexistent.

I am a visitor from your future who isn't even saying "never go," which is the advice I'd give to most. I'm saying "wait until you're certain. Law school will be there when you're 30." I don't regret my choices, but I'm not so arrogant as to think I chose the best possible path. I think you should think a little longer so you're at least as comfortable with things as I was. It doesn't sound like you are.

I PMed the OP, but to add to the discussion for future readers:

I made a decision when I was young that locked me into 8 years of a life I regret (not law school). I'm happy now where my life ended up, but it was an objectively terrible decision that I made for prestige and because I thought I knew what I wanted to do, but if I had been honest with myself I wasn't sure. I think even if I had taken a year off to explore my other choices and then decided to lock in, I would have been way happier. Don't trade a decade of your life away to something you're not sure you want to do. Do something else for a while, make sure you understand and are honest with yourself that you're sure it's what you want to do. This is especially true since you didn't get the outcome you wanted when you set out.

[Cogburn87]

1) purpose of sharing this is ...
2) I'm still not sure what makes me naïve. As I said, there are multiple things that make lawyering superior to my current job. For example, the pay. Librarian is one of the lowest paid jobs nationally. Lawyer is one of the highest. There's also the prestige factor. And there's the fact that as someone who aspires to political office (and has run for office before) being a lawyer makes that a vastly more likely goal than being a librarian. Etc.

Lawyers aren't prestigious or remarkably well paid. Those also are fairly awful reasons to pick a career.
Furthermore, being a lawyer doesn't magically increase your odds of being elected to public office. It's just that the same knobs tend to self-select into both fields.

I am well aware of the limitations of the career. I am also aware that I'm not going to be in a John grisham novel. However, a more modest career goal of clerkship -> doj/academia/phd -> public policy/run for office/research/impact litigation/whatever is not that unlikely.

Those goals aren't really that modest. That career path is easily a top %1 outcome for a lawyer.

If you don't have anything nice say don't say it. And if you wouldn't say it to my face then don't say it online

I would not hesitate to tell you these things to your face, regardless of your feelings.

[Tls2016]

Clerkship isn't a modest goal even from HLS. Next year's COA is $88,600. How much will you owe? More than $200,000? Will you do a biglaw SA (probably). Will you end up as a biglaw lawyer with that amount of debt? Highly likely and even more likely if you can count on a clerkship bonus..

I'm concerned you're talking yourself into something you know isn't right for you. Don't disregard your doubts.

Edit to add: when you owe that much money every decision you make will be driven by money and paying your loans back.

[A. Nony Mouse]

You talk about being a librarian for the feds. Is that what your masters is in? Because while the library market is admittedly not great, I'm married to a librarian and pushing paper is not even a tiny portion of what he does. His work is completely different.

If you do want prestige and money then yeah, you may need to change careers. And no, I don't think it parlays smoothly into public office (but not sure why you would become a librarian if that was your goal?). But pushing papers is not a typical librarian job.

(I also have to agree that the "modest" career path you've laid out isn't modest.)

[Tls2016]

Your fear that the school you got into won't accept you again may be unfounded. Have you considered asking them if they would grant you a deferral? That way you wouldn't even have to reapply and you could take another year.

The checking on deferral advice is credited. Think it's worth pointing out that one of the schools OP has been accepted to is HLS and (anecdotally) a couple of strong applicants were dinged this week after being accepted to Harvard in a prior cycle and choosing not to matriculate. YMMV with other schools but it would seem that might not be an uncommon outcome with any school concerned about yield.

*raising my hand meekly to affirm that, even if Ender wasn't specifically thinking about me, I am indeed one of these accepted once, rejected on the rebound kind of candidates. I even improved my LSAT from when I was first accepted and they still played me to the left.

Since Harvard is an option for you, at least we know you aren't making an objectively poor decision, as long as you can live with the idea of your worst outcome being stuck in BigLaw somewhere for a spell and then getting into something else.

I frankly think that the vigor with which you've defended yourself says to me that you've already made this choice and are just suffering from some cold feet. So, let me be the first to say it, it is perfectly okay to go to Harvard Law School. Nothing in life is candies and roses, but on balance you will be fine taking this path even if you hate every waking moment of it. Three years of suffering might even be character building for you.

Not to derail, but isn't turning them down and then retaking the LSAT a huge signal that you won't go if accepted? It pretty much screams that you want a full ride somewhere else. Why would they accept you again? I'm scratching my head because I'm not sure why you are surprised. Did you do something amazing in the meantime?
Not criticizing you, I just wondered if you don't mind explaining.

[Kungfu Wontons]

*looks at stopped work timer, disgusted*

Ok let's consider the outcome you desire:

High profile impact litigation: one of the hardest (the hardest?) jobs to get in the field. Also, a job you've never done before and likely have no idea what the work would be like. This is only one of a whole list of acceptable outcomes that I gave above

Other outcomes: you haven't given any, but you said biglaw: easily achievable from a good school but unfulfilling for most. Even if you do find it fulfilling, it will take you many years to reach the break-even point economically, and at that point you will likely be editing to job that does not pay as well. Yes I did. See my above posts. And I have no interest whatsoever in biglaw

Alternatives:

Inaction: low risk low reward. You continue to be unhappy but you probably end up ahead of where you would be otherwise.

Schooling: you could go back to school and do something else.

I will grant that both of these are acceptable.

Finding a job using your current credentials: as I explained before, you have SEVEN YEARS to get in a position better than your current one, and you can achieve this without the downsides present in law school.

Very true. And I already have a masters degree that I extremely useful in federal govt

You are naïve because you don't appreciate how good your situation is. You want to strive and think you could achieve more with a law degree. Statistically speaking, that's dubious. Existentially, that reality, once you internalize it, might be crippling.

Wow. Ok you got me there.

I am a graduate of a T6 school who landed at a mildly PREFTIGIOUS biglaw firm. I am a first year but I still like the work so far. Part of why I like it is because my alternatives were very shitty. I am also not the norm: my peers are generally less happy than I am. I know many other first years who already are running the clock until they leave for their clerkship or exit biglaw. It's a lifestyle that isn't compatible with living. You need to sacrifice your life to it.

For my even more prestigious friends, things are more similar than disimilar. Everyone clerking seems to enjoy it. Most are returning to biglaw afterwards.

I don't know anyone who managed to get an impact lit job. Godspeed in that. Even from Harvard/Stanford, my impression is that it's a superlative outcome that one shouldn't count on. From a T6 it is so rare as to be nonexistent.

I am a visitor from your future who isn't even saying "never go," which is the advice I'd give to most. I'm saying "wait until you're certain. Law school will be there when you're 30." I don't regret my choices, but I'm not so arrogant as to think I chose the best possible path. I think you should think a little longer so you're at least as comfortable with things as I was. It doesn't sound like you are.

Thank you very much for your advice. I really honestly appreciate it a lot.

People point out your naïveté to help you realize your decision-making process is not as mature as you think. Age alone doesn't grant you wisdom.

Good things can come out of existential crises. A clearer understanding of reality is one of those, and it is worthwhile.

[fliptrip]

Your fear that the school you got into won't accept you again may be unfounded. Have you considered asking them if they would grant you a deferral? That way you wouldn't even have to reapply and you could take another year.

The checking on deferral advice is credited. Think it's worth pointing out that one of the schools OP has been accepted to is HLS and (anecdotally) a couple of strong applicants were dinged this week after being accepted to Harvard in a prior cycle and choosing not to matriculate. YMMV with other schools but it would seem that might not be an uncommon outcome with any school concerned about yield.

*raising my hand meekly to affirm that, even if Ender wasn't specifically thinking about me, I am indeed one of these accepted once, rejected on the rebound kind of candidates. I even improved my LSAT from when I was first accepted and they still played me to the left.

Since Harvard is an option for you, at least we know you aren't making an objectively poor decision, as long as you can live with the idea of your worst outcome being stuck in BigLaw somewhere for a spell and then getting into something else.

I frankly think that the vigor with which you've defended yourself says to me that you've already made this choice and are just suffering from some cold feet. So, let me be the first to say it, it is perfectly okay to go to Harvard Law School. Nothing in life is candies and roses, but on balance you will be fine taking this path even if you hate every waking moment of it. Three years of suffering might even be character building for you.

Not to derail, but isn't turning them down and then retaking the LSAT a huge signal that you won't go if accepted? It pretty much screams that you want a full ride somewhere else. Why would they accept you again? I'm scratching my head because I'm not sure why you are surprised. Did you do something amazing in the meantime?
Not criticizing you, I just wondered if you don't mind explaining.

I didn't say I was surprised. I said I was a candidate that matched the description.