Please tell me anything at all about UNLV Forum

[landshoes]

I apologize for being so harsh, but this is like someone saying that their significant other has a bad back, so they're considering starting Oxycontin. It is wasteful, risky, and needless.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Employers often care very much about local ties, because they don't want to hire someone and have them bolt in 2 years for their preferred city. Especially something like Nevada, which is hugely different (in terms of climate, topography, culture, politics etc) than PA. People here debate how much going to the local flagship creates ties. I think it can, especially if you do a lot of interning/networking during school (and your SO is here, maybe you buy a house, have kids in the local school, that kind of thing). But I am more optimistic about this than many. And even I think it takes some effort to manufacture solid ties, whereas someone who's (say) a third-generation Nevadan isn't going to have to put in the same effort.

(Context: I went to a regional school and had no problem with getting into the legal market despite not being from anywhere near that school. I also now work in a different market that I had no ties to previously. Both are considered pretty small, insular markets. I actually think going to a regional school signals a greater desire to stay in that market than going to a T14 does, but that's obviously speculation on my part.)

[heythatslife]

We're flexible with our specialties--we wouldn't be completely heartbroken if we ended up doing something else--but my point is that we have specific law-related interests and have (tentative) plans. UNLV has a specific health law program (something Iowa doesn't have), as well as a conflict resolution program that LP really likes.

Existence of specialty programs means very little. You should look at what kind of practices are actually hiring attorneys in NV.

[magicmagic]

It is absolutely ridiculous for us to attend a T2 school considering our numbers?

You, yes. Them, maybe not.

There is no "we" in this situation. There's no "we" unless it's your kid. Seriously, so many people make this mistake. I'm sure you're very much in love, but this is a one-time shot to set yourself up for the rest of your life.

They should consider something besides law, and should move to follow you. You should go to the law school that would give you the best benefit possible in exchange for the tuition, COL, 3 years of opportunity costs, and degree that will be on your resume forever.

You currently have the higher ability to earn. It is unwise in the extreme to let the lower-earning-capacity partner drag down the earning capacity of the higher-earning partner. I'm guessing from your willingness to do this that you're a woman, and let me just say now that this kind of thing is wasteful of your natural ability, and it's silly. You have earning power, and you owe it to yourself (and to your kids, if you plan to have them) to maximize your personal earning potential. You can scale back later, but it's very very hard to put yourself back in the position that you are ready to give up.

If your partner absolutely must go to law school, and you absolutely must be in the same place as them for the entire three years, please reconsider areas where there are both higher-ranked and lower-ranked schools so you can go to a school that will actually give you a return on your substantial investment.

New York has NYU/Columbia and Brooklyn/Cardozo/NYLS/Rutgers.

Chicago has U of C, Northwestern, DePaul, Kent, John Marshall, etc.

DC has Georgetown, GW, and American.

Denver/Boulder has CU-Boulder and DU. (CU-Boulder isn't really good enough for your stats but it's better than UNLV.)

Boston has Harvard, BC/BU, and Northeastern.

Not as familiar with CA and TX, but they have similar pairings IIRC.

All of these options are about a million times more sensible than what you propose to do.

I do understand what you're saying. Before we were both into UNLV, we considered WashU/St. Louis, Emory/Georgia State, and a few others. I really don't want any debt (30k from undergrad, no family support) which is why I'm not seriously considering NYU (or Chicago, UMichigan, UVA, or Duke, none of which I have heard back from yet). But does it make sense to do a pairing like that when we will be stuck in a geographic location that we don't like, probably for life (partner's JD will not be very transferable)? I don't mean that as a dumb question, I am absolutely serious.

[magicmagic]

Employers often care very much about local ties, because they don't want to hire someone and have them bolt in 2 years for their preferred city. Especially something like Nevada, which is hugely different (in terms of climate, topography, culture, politics etc) than PA. People here debate how much going to the local flagship creates ties. I think it can, especially if you do a lot of interning/networking during school (and your SO is here, maybe you buy a house, have kids in the local school, that kind of thing). But I am more optimistic about this than many. And even I think it takes some effort to manufacture solid ties, whereas someone who's (say) a third-generation Nevadan isn't going to have to put in the same effort.

(Context: I went to a regional school and had no problem with getting into the legal market despite not being from anywhere near that school. I also now work in a different market that I had no ties to previously. Both are considered pretty small, insular markets. I actually think going to a regional school signals a greater desire to stay in that market than going to a T14 does, but that's obviously speculation on my part.)

That's a very valid concern, thank you. Your experience is encouraging though...glad things worked out for you!

[magicmagic]

I apologize for being so harsh, but this is like someone saying that their significant other has a bad back, so they're considering starting Oxycontin. It is wasteful, risky, and needless.

Out of curiosity, would you consider Iowa to be a more sensible choice and kind of a middle ground for both of us? Would an Iowa degree ever be transferable to Nevada (after work experience)?

[Tls2016]

Employers often care very much about local ties, because they don't want to hire someone and have them bolt in 2 years for their preferred city. Especially something like Nevada, which is hugely different (in terms of climate, topography, culture, politics etc) than PA. People here debate how much going to the local flagship creates ties. I think it can, especially if you do a lot of interning/networking during school (and your SO is here, maybe you buy a house, have kids in the local school, that kind of thing). But I am more optimistic about this than many. And even I think it takes some effort to manufacture solid ties, whereas someone who's (say) a third-generation Nevadan isn't going to have to put in the same effort.

(Context: I went to a regional school and had no problem with getting into the legal market despite not being from anywhere near that school. I also now work in a different market that I had no ties to previously. Both are considered pretty small, insular markets. I actually think going to a regional school signals a greater desire to stay in that market than going to a T14 does, but that's obviously speculation on my part.)

That's a very valid concern, thank you. Your experience is encouraging though...glad things worked out for you!

It is encouraging. My understanding is that Nony did extremely well in law school which as you know from your previous posts you can't count on getting good grades. (The mandatory curve hurts even good students.) I don't know how much great grades factor into the ties question. Las Vegas is such a small market I can't recall any posts about the school or the job market. I'm sure you searched as well.
Maybe when you go visit you can set up some meetings with employed recent grads who can share their experiences with you. That's my suggestion. It shouldn't be too difficult to find grads to ask about the school.

[fliptrip]

landshoes has a point. Also, your conspicuous use of "long-term partner" says clearly that you are not married to your SO. If you're not married (and maybe even if you are), you really should protect your long-term interests at all times, even if you love and are committed to your partner.

It seems to me that your best strategy, since you like the southwest, would be to target California. In the Bay Area, you will be able to target Berkeley and SO could do UC-Davis (there's some distance/commute issues, but those can be worked out, I'd think). In SoCal, you've got UCLA/USC (which will be free or close to free for you) and he will have UC-Irvine, Pepperdine, or something like that. Now, you'll have to plan to stay in Southern California, but it's definitely a different vibe than the Northeast and could work as well as Las Vegas.

OR, SO could retake the LSAT and bring his law school options more closely into line with where you are able to get to.

Another option would be to stagger your law school attendance, which would also help with the amount of debt you take on. Since you mentioned Emory and GA State, let's play out this scenario. Let's say you get good money at UVA, like $150k (not sure what you really got). You go to UVA, SO comes along and gets a job in C'Ville for 3 years and you get a great job in Atlanta. Then, in Atlanta, SO goes to GA State (Emory will probably be too expensive, though I think SO might get in) while you are working. The south is a different vibe from the Northeast, to say the least.

Re: Iowa, it's a regional school (just like pretty much every school aside from HYS), so I would not bet on it to get me to a completely different region.

Why do you both have to go to school now?

[landshoes]

Realistically, he's not getting a law degree that will give him any mobility at all. There's a substantial chance that he will never be employed as an attorney. I would make this decision assuming that his earning money as an attorney is a bonus, and that you personally need to support both of you.

Given that, what can you get out of a law degree? A degree with national reach (plus a scholarship) is very, very doable for you and would give you the most flexibility, both in terms of location and in terms of earning power.

So I would not be worried about being "stuck" in, say, Chicago if you went to U of C or Northwestern, simply because he would not be able to move. At that point, you would move for your career, and he would do his best to find something if possible.

To put it another way, if you two choose to go into law, you need to behave as though you are going to be the breadwinner, and make decisions that are focused on your career.

I understand your reluctance to take on debt, but you'll be doing that at UNLV anyway (two full ride scholarships plus $2500 don't cover the cost of living).

The best way to reduce your debt and set you both up for the future would be for him to get a job and some work experience (and I know he was a history major) and support you through a T-14 school where you have a good scholarship.

[landshoes]

No, don't compromise. He's not going to get a good outcome and you're shooting yourself in the foot without actually benefiting him. You should think of ways in which HE can compromise to support YOUR career, because you're the one who actually has a shot to support you both.

Iowa is a decent school, so I'm not saying it's terrible, but if you're only going there because of your relationship it's a bad move.

[landshoes]

(And the fact that you don't have familial support makes it even more important that you set yourself up to support yourself and your (potential) kids. If you two break up, you will have to support yourself. People split up all the time. Don't position yourself to be poor after all of your hard work.)

[magicmagic]

Why do you both have to go to school now?

Interesting story. His dream was always going to law school, and about six months ago he encouraged me to start looking into law because I test well and decided I didn't want to pursue history grad school. So I took the LSAT and here we all are. Law was his dream and his plan first, and he doesn't want to delay it any longer.

Unfortunately, LP doesn't test well. He's very smart, writes great papers, has presented at historical conferences, and has legal experience, but yeah, the 160 is not the best. I don't think retakes would help much.

[Tls2016]

No, don't compromise. He's not going to get a good outcome and you're shooting yourself in the foot without actually benefiting him. You should think of ways in which HE can compromise to support YOUR career, because you're the one who actually has a shot to support you both.

Iowa is a decent school, so I'm not saying it's terrible, but if you're only going there because of your relationship it's a bad move.

Wouldn't you assume OP could hate Iowa? There is nothing there that she has mentioned liking.

I think OP needs to go back and rethink. They have plenty of options, including the retake one for her partner.

Still wishing OP good luck with everything.

[JazzyMac]

landshoes has a point. Also, your conspicuous use of "long-term partner" says clearly that you are not married to your SO. If you're not married (and maybe even if you are), you really should protect your long-term interests at all times, even if you love and are committed to your partner.

It seems to me that your best strategy, since you like the southwest, would be to target California. In the Bay Area, you will be able to target Berkeley and SO could do UC-Davis (there's some distance/commute issues, but those can be worked out, I'd think). In SoCal, you've got UCLA/USC (which will be free or close to free for you) and he will have UC-Irvine, Pepperdine, or something like that. Now, you'll have to plan to stay in Southern California, but it's definitely a different vibe than the Northeast and could work as well as Las Vegas.

OR, SO could retake the LSAT and bring his law school options more closely into line with where you are able to get to.

Another option would be to stagger your law school attendance, which would also help with the amount of debt you take on. Since you mentioned Emory and GA State, let's play out this scenario. Let's say you get good money at UVA, like $150k (not sure what you really got). You go to UVA, SO comes along and gets a job in C'Ville for 3 years and you get a great job in Atlanta. Then, in Atlanta, SO goes to GA State (Emory will probably be too expensive, though I think SO might get in) while you are working. The south is a different vibe from the Northeast, to say the least.

Re: Iowa, it's a regional school (just like pretty much every school aside from HYS), so I would not bet on it to get me to a completely different region.

Why do you both have to go to school now?

"Life partner" is not a conspicuous use at all. Partner for life. Not long-term friend, baby-mama/daddy, "life partner".

[gamerish]

Why do you both have to go to school now?

Interesting story. His dream was always going to law school, and about six months ago he encouraged me to start looking into law because I test well and decided I didn't want to pursue history grad school. So I took the LSAT and here we all are. Law was his dream and his plan first, and he doesn't want to delay it any longer.

Unfortunately, LP doesn't test well. He's very smart, writes great papers, has presented at historical conferences, and has legal experience, but yeah, the 160 is not the best. I don't think retakes would help much.

Not to be condescending, but does he realize that his ability to graduate in a position to get any job at all is going to be dependent on grades predominantly determined by a single test (per class)?

[magicmagic]

landshoes has a point. Also, your conspicuous use of "long-term partner" says clearly that you are not married to your SO. If you're not married (and maybe even if you are), you really should protect your long-term interests at all times, even if you love and are committed to your partner.

It seems to me that your best strategy, since you like the southwest, would be to target California. In the Bay Area, you will be able to target Berkeley and SO could do UC-Davis (there's some distance/commute issues, but those can be worked out, I'd think). In SoCal, you've got UCLA/USC (which will be free or close to free for you) and he will have UC-Irvine, Pepperdine, or something like that. Now, you'll have to plan to stay in Southern California, but it's definitely a different vibe than the Northeast and could work as well as Las Vegas.

OR, SO could retake the LSAT and bring his law school options more closely into line with where you are able to get to.

Another option would be to stagger your law school attendance, which would also help with the amount of debt you take on. Since you mentioned Emory and GA State, let's play out this scenario. Let's say you get good money at UVA, like $150k (not sure what you really got). You go to UVA, SO comes along and gets a job in C'Ville for 3 years and you get a great job in Atlanta. Then, in Atlanta, SO goes to GA State (Emory will probably be too expensive, though I think SO might get in) while you are working. The south is a different vibe from the Northeast, to say the least.

Re: Iowa, it's a regional school (just like pretty much every school aside from HYS), so I would not bet on it to get me to a completely different region.

Why do you both have to go to school now?

"Life partner" is not a conspicuous use at all. Partner for life. Not long-term friend, baby-mama/daddy, "life partner".

I mean we're not married, but we've been together 3 years, live together, etc...definitely no plans to break up (not that any relationship is completely guaranteed). "Boyfriend" seems too casual a term.

[magicmagic]

Why do you both have to go to school now?

Interesting story. His dream was always going to law school, and about six months ago he encouraged me to start looking into law because I test well and decided I didn't want to pursue history grad school. So I took the LSAT and here we all are. Law was his dream and his plan first, and he doesn't want to delay it any longer.

Unfortunately, LP doesn't test well. He's very smart, writes great papers, has presented at historical conferences, and has legal experience, but yeah, the 160 is not the best. I don't think retakes would help much.

Not to be condescending, but does he realize that his ability to graduate in a position to get any job at all is going to be dependent on grades predominantly determined by a single test (per class)?

They're research papers or argument essays based on case law, correct? He's good with that. Possibly as good/better than me. But standardized/multiple choice/LSAT/SAT/GRE are not good for him at all. So I think he'd do very well once he's actually in law school.

[A. Nony Mouse]

It's extremely hard to predict how you're going to do in law school, even regardless of what kinds of strengths you bring. Law school exams really aren't research papers or argument essays - they're their own beast. You have to learn how to take them. (I have theories about which strengths/weaknesses in an application are more likely into success in law school, but they're probably self-serving.)

That said, I don't think it's fair to suggest that because the OP's partner gets a JD from a school with very little mobility means the OP has to presume they will be supporting them. People who strike out getting legal jobs don't shrivel up and die, or go on welfare. It may not be a fun process, but the vast majority of people end up getting some kind of job after the fact. The concern is whether whatever job you get will service your debt, but I think saying the OP will have to plan to support the two of them is overstating things.

(To be honest, my concern is more that it sounds like the OP and their partner are K-JD, but that's mostly me being ageist.)

[ReasonableNprudent]

Literally everyone honestly and earnestly expects to do well in law school. The curve necessitates that many of those that expect to do well, and believe they will do well based on previous successes, do not do well.

You will do what you will do. But I will have to chime in that I think it would actually be sad to see you use those numbers to settle like that.

[magicmagic]

It's extremely hard to predict how you're going to do in law school, even regardless of what kinds of strengths you bring. Law school exams really aren't research papers or argument essays - they're their own beast. You have to learn how to take them. (I have theories about which strengths/weaknesses in an application are more likely into success in law school, but they're probably self-serving.)

That said, I don't think it's fair to suggest that because the OP's partner gets a JD from a school with very little mobility means the OP has to presume they will be supporting them. People who strike out getting legal jobs don't shrivel up and die, or go on welfare. It may not be a fun process, but the vast majority of people end up getting some kind of job after the fact. The concern is whether whatever job you get will service your debt, but I think saying the OP will have to plan to support the two of them is overstating things.

(To be honest, my concern is more that it sounds like the OP and their partner are K-JD, but that's mostly me being ageist.)

Thank you, I'm sure my partner would not end up living on a futon and eating up all the gourmet chocolates I bought with my barrels of money (if I ever ended up at NYU or Chicago), even if he didn't work in the legal profession. But I am legitimately concerned about being pushed into the role of permanent primary breadwinner...not because he wants me to be, but because that's how I envision things playing out if I attend a T14 and he just follows me around. I would love for us to have equal qualifications and opportunities upon graduation from law school, which is one of many reasons why we both like UNLV...neither of us has to be the "trophy wife/husband" or feel pressure to work a ton of hours to provide for the both of us (and later children). But maybe that's unavoidable. I really don't know.

Sorry Nony, we are pretty K-JD...partner is 24 with 2 years of work experience, and I just turned 22. I know, we're babies. But I have absolutely loathed working gap-year jobs that I have no real interest in or room for advancement, and I'm extremely anxious to get into law school and lay the foundation for a professional career.

[duck]

oh god

u should just go to a good school and LTR then

[fliptrip]

(To be honest, my concern is more that it sounds like the OP and their partner are K-JD, but that's mostly me being ageist.)

I too sense that OP is K-JD or very close to it.

"Life partner" is not a conspicuous use at all. Partner for life. Not long-term friend, baby-mama/daddy, "life partner".

This "life partner" business screams it to me. I think when you get to a certain age and have had a few rodeos, you realize that there's only one meaningful relationship distinction. Either you're married, or you're not. Call it whatever you'd like, soulmate, boyfriend/girlfriend, romantic co-habitator, whatever, you aren't married.

Feelings and intentions are powerful and wonderful things, but there's just a whole other ballgame going on when you're legally bound to someone. If you're married, then the calculus of "us" is relevant because you've both gone to great lengths to commit to forming an "us". Neither one of you can just leave on a change of mind. Again, OP, I don't doubt your feelings, relationship, or your commitment to each other, but you absolutely should do what's best for you independent of what's good for SO.

Furthermore, the calculus of "us" if we do apply it here says strongly that it is not best for both of you to incinerate your opportunities in order to facilitate SO chasing his dreams. The "grown up" thing to do would be to facilitate you going to law school, while he figures out how to get his LSAT up or he contemplates another career path that will allow him to contribute meaningfully to the household. That's cold and practical, but if anyone ever told you that being with someone over the long term out in the adult world is all about feelings, they lied.

[Tls2016]

OP: you just decided a little while ago that you want to be a lawyer. So far your posts haven't evidenced that you know much about the profession, fair enough not many 0Ls know even as much as you do. I feel that maybe you should do more research before jumping into law school.
Your entire decision making process seems very convoluted and impatient. It's far better to take a year and make a considered plan with good information instead of rushing ahead.

I just think you are planning way too far ahead but you haven't done the foundational research. Do you know what working as a lawyer means? Are you doing this because your SO convinced you and you are good at standardized tests? Right now I'm not sure you even want to be a lawyer.

[landshoes]

No, don't compromise. He's not going to get a good outcome and you're shooting yourself in the foot without actually benefiting him. You should think of ways in which HE can compromise to support YOUR career, because you're the one who actually has a shot to support you both.

Iowa is a decent school, so I'm not saying it's terrible, but if you're only going there because of your relationship it's a bad move.

Wouldn't you assume OP could hate Iowa? There is nothing there that she has mentioned liking.

I think OP needs to go back and rethink. They have plenty of options, including the retake one for her partner.

Still wishing OP good luck with everything.

That's why I said for her not to compromise by going there, and that she shouldn't go to Iowa if it's only because of her relationship. It's not a terrible school, but I think a T-14 is by far a better option.

[hairbear7]

Holy shit. You just turned 22, and have only wanted to go to law school for a year now (if I read that correctly.) Honestly, you don't seem to understand the gravity of the decision you are about to make. You could completely change your mind about whether you want to be a lawyer, and you will DEFINITELY change your mind about what kind of law you want to practice, and maybe change your mind about where you want to practice (I know I have). Graduating without debt from UNLV isn't necessarily a bad option-it isn't like you are blindly paying sticker somewhere- but you don't have enough experience to be making this big of a decision. What if you decide to change your mind about what kind of law you do/firm you want to work at/geographical area? Going to UNLV is going to limit your options.

And, it is going to be an up-hill battle for you to get a job in Nevada. I don't have particular experience with that market, but I know in every interview I have had in LA/TX/Chi the first question I get from everyone is why I want to be there, and I have ties to all these markets. You don't have any ties to Nevada and it is a much much smaller market with less jobs. Why is a small/mid law firm going to hire you over a native? Even if you have great grades, it may be tough for you. And if it doesn't work out, then what? It is going to be harder to find something else. You have amazing numbers and can get full rides in the lower T-14. I know you don't want to do biglaw or bigfed or anything but who knows your plans might change.

Different people have different risk tolerances and such, but I would just hate to see you limit your options by going to a regional school in a region you've never lived in. And I'd hate to see you "waste" your numbers based on a "life-partner" when you are only 22 years old.