What are your T14 school tiers? Forum

[TheatreofDreams]

w

[gnomgnomuch]

I'd go:

Y
H/S
C/C/N
P/D/B
V/C/N/M
G

I'm basing this partially on lay-prestige, partially on actual prestige and partially on employment statistics.

[rpupkin]

Penn is the TTTT of Ivy League schools? Penn and Columbia are peer schools! LOL! Where are you from? Kentucky? Wachtell, by far the most elite and selective firm, hires Penn grads every single year. They don't even go to OCI at schools outside of HYSCCNPB. If you want to stay on the topic of prestige, how is NYU more prestigious? Its undergraduate institution is ranked #32, which disqualifies it from being considered an elite school. Same goes for Michigan and UVA, the latter of which is for frat boys. All of Penn's schools (law, undergrad, medical, dental, business, etc) are in the top 10. You can conceivably make the prestige argument about Cornell, but you can't make it about Penn. Sorry! I don't expect a response, as you more likely than not have realized by now that you just wrote the most inaccurate and laughable post on TLS.

While I do not doubt that Penn has a top-tier dental school, its law school is second-rate at best. You honestly believe that Penn and Columbia are peer schools? Just LOL. In your opinion, is the number four a peer of the number seven? I didn't think so. And even USNWR vastly overvalues Penn. It's telling that you cherry picked the example of Wachtell. First, Wachtell doesn't even attend Cornell's OCI, which proves my point about Cornell's bottom-of-the-barrel status. As for Wachtell and Penn, it's well known that Wachtell attends Penn OCI so that its few CLS grads can feel superior to other law students for a few hours each Fall. It's basically just a morale boosting thing for Wachtell's non-HYS grads.

And, yes, I am from Kentucky. Do you have a problem with that?

BigLaw/Fed Clerkship rate for both schools:

Penn: 78%
Columbia: 78.8%

If that doesn't say "peer schools, I don't know what does.

LOL at Penn's "Fed Clerkship" hiring rate. After the prestigious judges hire the students from the best Ivies (Harvard, Yale), and after the solid but unspectacular judges hire from the mid-tier Ivy (Columbia), the dregs of the federal judiciary—lower-tier district court judges, senile Third Circuit judges, and mid-Atlantic magistrates—pick up the scraps (i.e., Penn students). And don't even get me started on the types of law firms that most Penn students end up at.

If you were at an elite level, you would appreciate that it's quality—not just quantity—that matters. But since you're defending Penn for some reason, I wouldn't expect you to appreciate that.

[RZ5646]

Penn is the TTTT of Ivy League schools? Penn and Columbia are peer schools! LOL! Where are you from? Kentucky? Wachtell, by far the most elite and selective firm, hires Penn grads every single year. They don't even go to OCI at schools outside of HYSCCNPB. If you want to stay on the topic of prestige, how is NYU more prestigious? Its undergraduate institution is ranked #32, which disqualifies it from being considered an elite school. Same goes for Michigan and UVA, the latter of which is for frat boys. All of Penn's schools (law, undergrad, medical, dental, business, etc) are in the top 10. You can conceivably make the prestige argument about Cornell, but you can't make it about Penn. Sorry! I don't expect a response, as you more likely than not have realized by now that you just wrote the most inaccurate and laughable post on TLS.

While I do not doubt that Penn has a top-tier dental school, its law school is second-rate at best. You honestly believe that Penn and Columbia are peer schools? Just LOL. In your opinion, is the number four a peer of the number seven? I didn't think so. And even USNWR vastly overvalues Penn. It's telling that you cherry picked the example of Wachtell. First, Wachtell doesn't even attend Cornell's OCI, which proves my point about Cornell's bottom-of-the-barrel status. As for Wachtell and Penn, it's well known that Wachtell attends Penn OCI so that its few CLS grads can feel superior to other law students for a few hours each Fall. It's basically just a morale boosting thing for Wachtell's non-HYS grads.

And, yes, I am from Kentucky. Do you have a problem with that?

BigLaw/Fed Clerkship rate for both schools:

Penn: 78%
Columbia: 78.8%

If that doesn't say "peer schools, I don't know what does.

LOL at Penn's "Fed Clerkship" hiring rate. After the prestigious judges hire the students from the best Ivies (Harvard, Yale), and after the solid but unspectacular judges hire from the mid-tier Ivy (Columbia), the dregs of the federal judiciary—lower-tier district court judges, senile Third Circuit judges, and mid-Atlantic magistrates—pick up the scraps (i.e., Penn students). And don't even get me started on the types of law firms that most Penn students end up at.

If you were at an elite level, you would appreciate that it's quality—not just quantity—that matters. But since you're defending Penn for some reason, I wouldn't expect you to appreciate that.

Do people really care about the Ivy League so much?

[A. Nony Mouse]

rpupkin, I really value your contributions to TLS.

[Alive97]

Penn is the TTTT of Ivy League schools? Penn and Columbia are peer schools! LOL! Where are you from? Kentucky? Wachtell, by far the most elite and selective firm, hires Penn grads every single year. They don't even go to OCI at schools outside of HYSCCNPB. If you want to stay on the topic of prestige, how is NYU more prestigious? Its undergraduate institution is ranked #32, which disqualifies it from being considered an elite school. Same goes for Michigan and UVA, the latter of which is for frat boys. All of Penn's schools (law, undergrad, medical, dental, business, etc) are in the top 10. You can conceivably make the prestige argument about Cornell, but you can't make it about Penn. Sorry! I don't expect a response, as you more likely than not have realized by now that you just wrote the most inaccurate and laughable post on TLS.

While I do not doubt that Penn has a top-tier dental school, its law school is second-rate at best. You honestly believe that Penn and Columbia are peer schools? Just LOL. In your opinion, is the number four a peer of the number seven? I didn't think so. And even USNWR vastly overvalues Penn. It's telling that you cherry picked the example of Wachtell. First, Wachtell doesn't even attend Cornell's OCI, which proves my point about Cornell's bottom-of-the-barrel status. As for Wachtell and Penn, it's well known that Wachtell attends Penn OCI so that its few CLS grads can feel superior to other law students for a few hours each Fall. It's basically just a morale boosting thing for Wachtell's non-HYS grads.

And, yes, I am from Kentucky. Do you have a problem with that?

BigLaw/Fed Clerkship rate for both schools:

Penn: 78%
Columbia: 78.8%

If that doesn't say "peer schools, I don't know what does.

LOL at Penn's "Fed Clerkship" hiring rate. After the prestigious judges hire the students from the best Ivies (Harvard, Yale), and after the solid but unspectacular judges hire from the mid-tier Ivy (Columbia), the dregs of the federal judiciary—lower-tier district court judges, senile Third Circuit judges, and mid-Atlantic magistrates—pick up the scraps (i.e., Penn students). And don't even get me started on the types of law firms that most Penn students end up at.

If you were at an elite level, you would appreciate that it's quality—not just quantity—that matters. But since you're defending Penn for some reason, I wouldn't expect you to appreciate that.

Do people really care about the Ivy League so much?

Please ignore the ever so knowledgeable lawyers "trolling" the thread .

[rpupkin]

LOL at Penn's "Fed Clerkship" hiring rate. After the prestigious judges hire the students from the best Ivies (Harvard, Yale), and after the solid but unspectacular judges hire from the mid-tier Ivy (Columbia), the dregs of the federal judiciary—lower-tier district court judges, senile Third Circuit judges, and mid-Atlantic magistrates—pick up the scraps (i.e., Penn students). And don't even get me started on the types of law firms that most Penn students end up at.

If you were at an elite level, you would appreciate that it's quality—not just quantity—that matters. But since you're defending Penn for some reason, I wouldn't expect you to appreciate that.

Do people really care about the Ivy League so much?

Yes. Look, you can't start a "T14 school tiers" thread, as you've done here, without focusing on the tiers within the Ivy League.

You also have to appreciate that the "Ivy League" is in some sense a state of mind. For example, Duke is often referred to as "the Ivy of the South." Similarly, Stanford is the "Ivy of the West." And I suppose you could say that Penn is the "Ivy of the Delaware Valley." Of course, Penn is also an actual Ivy, which complicates things. Whereas Duke and Stanford are on top—they're basically the YLS of their regional "Ivy" kingdoms—Penn is inevitably compared to the other real Ivy League schools, and those comparisons are usually unflattering to Penn. Fairly or not, Penn's reputation suffers, and its T14 sub-tier rank falls along with it.

Don't get me wrong: Penn is a fine law school at which any committed student can obtain a solid legal education. But if we're talking honestly about T14 school tiers, Penn (and its sibling Cornell) are at the bottom.

[candidlatke]

LOL that's amazing people took him for face

[GoogleWasMyIdea]

.

[RZ5646]

LOL that's amazing people took him for face

I dislike trolling in serious TLS threads. TLS is (or can be) an amazing source of information for 0Ls. The veteran users who troll because they're bored and no longer need advice should recall how they once turned to TLS for help.

[rpupkin]

LOL that's amazing people took him for face

I dislike trolling in serious TLS threads. TLS is (or can be) an amazing source of information for 0Ls. The veteran users who troll because they're bored and no longer need advice should recall how they once turned to TLS for help.

I also dislike trolling in serious TLS threads. Really.

[Minnietron]

LOL that's amazing people took him for face

I dislike trolling in serious TLS threads. TLS is (or can be) an amazing source of information for 0Ls. The veteran users who troll because they're bored and no longer need advice should recall how they once turned to TLS for help.

I also dislike trolling in serious TLS threads. Really.

TIL there are serious TLS threads. Now to find them...

[candidlatke]

LOL that's amazing people took him for face

I dislike trolling in serious TLS threads. TLS is (or can be) an amazing source of information for 0Ls. The veteran users who troll because they're bored and no longer need advice should recall how they once turned to TLS for help.

I also dislike trolling in serious TLS threads. Really.

I'm not sure if that was a counter troll or not.
if so, he got u good pumpkin.

if not, I think that a lot of tls hates tier threads cos they're pretty objectively stupid and have been overdone to death

[CPAlawHopefu]

Yale/Stanford
Harvard
Chicago/Columbia
NYU/Penn
Duke/Northwestern/Cornell
UVA/Berkeley/Michigan
GULC

[chickensoup1234]

Yale/Stanford
Harvard
Chicago/Columbia
NYU/Penn
Duke/Northwestern/Cornell
UVA/Berkeley/Michigan
GULC

This thread makes me think NYU is closer to CC than to P:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... &start=675

[Skool]

LOL that's amazing people took him for face

I dislike trolling in serious TLS threads. TLS is (or can be) an amazing source of information for 0Ls. The veteran users who troll because they're bored and no longer need advice should recall how they once turned to TLS for help.

I think it's fair to say that rpupkin did just give some pretty good (if subtle) advice.

Seriously, this kind of thing is why our profession is the worst.

[pterodactyls]

This is all assuming big law, correct? I'd be interested to see T14 tiers based on PI. I assume Berkeley and Mich would be higher and Cornell would be low.

[EnderWiggin]

Lol RZ = Victor Frankenstein

[RZ5646]

Lol RZ = Victor Frankenstein

I truly thought this could help weigh offers against each other, but I should have realized I was opening a can of worms

[seagan823]

Anyone have a link to a spreadsheet of biglaw + art 3?

[seagan823]

NVM, did it really quickly.

Big Law + Fed Clerk Numbers for T-14 (added from LST reports)

Columbia University 79%
University of Pennsylvania 78%
University of Chicago 76%
Stanford University 75%
Cornell University 74%
New York University 71%
Harvard University 71%
Duke University 70%
University of Virginia 68%
Northwestern University 65%
University of California - Berkeley 62%
Yale University 61%
University of Michigan 54%
Georgetown University 48%

[Alive97]

Lol RZ = Victor Frankenstein

I truly thought this could help weigh offers against each other, but I should have realized I was opening a can of worms

Certain corners enjoy certain negative things on TLS.

[CPAlawHopefu]

NVM, did it really quickly.

Big Law + Fed Clerk Numbers for T-14 (added from LST reports)

Columbia University 79%
University of Pennsylvania 78%
University of Chicago 76%
Stanford University 75%
Cornell University 74%
New York University 71%
Harvard University 71%
Duke University 70%
University of Virginia 68%
Northwestern University 65%
University of California - Berkeley 62%
Yale University 61%
University of Michigan 54%
Georgetown University 48%

This can't be right. Yale should be at the top.

[RZ5646]

NVM, did it really quickly.

Big Law + Fed Clerk Numbers for T-14 (added from LST reports)

Columbia University 79%
University of Pennsylvania 78%
University of Chicago 76%
Stanford University 75%
Cornell University 74%
New York University 71%
Harvard University 71%
Duke University 70%
University of Virginia 68%
Northwestern University 65%
University of California - Berkeley 62%
Yale University 61%
University of Michigan 54%
Georgetown University 48%

This can't be right. Yale should be at the top.

Could be because of Yalies taking prestigious PI or unicorn jobs instead?

[dominicanguy12]

Those numbers are exactly right, and it is indeed because Yale grads get offered a bunch of non-traditional jobs.