To what degree does being VERY young hurt/harm me? Forum

[03152016]

But if you're sure you want to go law school and you're not going to use the intervening time to do something cool or personally gratifying, and instead you're just going to wind up in marketing or some bullshit desk job like the majority of them do, then I'm not sure there's really a point to it.

couldn't be more wrong
i can't even emphasize how wrong u r

the majority of my peers used their time off to do amazing things
very few had so-called "bullshit desk jobs"

here are some of the things my peers did before coming to law school:
serving our country in the military
pursuing a phd
working at a top investment bank
apprenticing on a farm
worked as a policy advisor on capitol hill
negotiating with foreign countries in the state dept
public school teacher in the inner-city
working in silicon-valley startups
doing research in african countries
becoming a sommelier
being a professor of history

these are ppl i kno personally
and this is just a fraction, would be happy to list many more

[fats provolone]

can't believe no one has mentioned the #1 reason to spend time doing other things for a few years before law school: you might decide not to go to law school.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

But if you're sure you want to go law school and you're not going to use the intervening time to do something cool or personally gratifying, and instead you're just going to wind up in marketing or some bullshit desk job like the majority of them do, then I'm not sure there's really a point to it.

couldn't be more wrong
i can't even emphasize how wrong u r

the majority of my peers used their time off to do amazing things
very few had so-called "bullshit desk jobs"

here are some of the things my peers did before coming to law school:
serving our country in the military
pursuing a phd
working at a top investment bank
apprenticing on a farm
worked as a policy advisor on capitol hill
negotiating with foreign countries in the state dept
public school teacher in the inner-city
working in silicon-valley startups
doing research in african countries
becoming a sommelier
being a professor of history

these are ppl i kno personally
and this is just a fraction, would be happy to list many more

Yeah, most of that looks substantially similar to what everyone I know did, so I guess we just have a different definition of bullshit desk job. I guess if you actually like those jobs, there's not a real reason to leave them. Hey, maybe you never knew being the environmental legislative assistant to Congressman Who-Gives-A-Fuck was your calling until you did it, although I doubt all that many people find their job less shitty after a year or two than they had anticipated going in. I'm still gonna have to consider myself a cynic regarding the notion that these jobs were so wonderful given that people leave them by the thousands so they can pay $200k for the chance to work at Cadwalader for four years.

But like fats said, the biggest advantage might be having the time to reflect on the likely reality that 21-year-old you has only really considered the merits and drawbacks of law school for a grand total of 10 minutes.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Not that anyone at all is particularly excited to dive into Biglaw, but it's dumb to think K-JDs haven't "experienced life" in the context of something you could only learn/do by waiting a few years before going to law school.

Unless that K-JD was actually independent and supported themselves entirely by working full-time while/before going to school (in which case mostly they wouldn't be K-JDs), that's not true at all. Living on your own and supporting yourself through your job - and having had that experience already before going to law school - is a big life thing. It's not that you'll never do that if you don't go to law school; it's that when you do it before law school, you have way more information to make informed decisions about what you do while in law school.

What exactly is it that you'd expect someone in their early twenties to learn? Most jobs are kind of dreary even if you have the vague notion that Biglaw is going to be a lot worse? Bills are kind of a pain in the ass? Getting blitzed on Tuesday nights is not a good idea when you have to be in the office the next morning at 9? In the real world, people won't let you know how you're doing by assigning you a letter? It's worth investing 30 minutes now to learn how to tie a decent tie knot for the rest of your life?

I never endorse anyone going to law school if they're not sure based on a "fuck it" rationale, or because they just don't know what else they could do. But if you're sure you want to go law school and you're not going to use the intervening time to do something cool or personally gratifying, and instead you're just going to wind up in marketing or some bullshit desk job like the majority of them do, then I'm not sure there's really a point to it.

The fact that you're saying this suggests you're not getting what I mean. I'm not talking about literal job experience, I'm talking about the simple experience of being on your own and not being a student. It doesn't matter *what* job you do - you could be a barista, you could be a garbage collector, you could be a consultant, you could be a desk jockey, whatever. My point is that people should actually experience what it's like to work full time (at WHATEVER), how to be an employee and work with co-workers at something other than a student job, and how to live on your own before taking on a professional program that's going to slot you into a specific profession, in theory for the rest of your life. It's not about learning how to do a specific job - it's learning how you, personally, work best; what you have to offer an employer; what kinds of conditions matter to you. It's also just nice not to have to learn how to be a grownup and/or professional at the same time you're learning how to be a lawyer.

It's not impossible for K-JDs to learn some of this through work in college. But you're not going to have the full experience. It's not about checking boxes or putting stuff on your resume; it's about learning about yourself and growing (as woowoo as that sounds). Obviously if you don't do it before law school, you'll do it during law school/through working as a lawyer, but I was just super glad to have that kind of experience behind me, to be able to evaluate law school and what I wanted to do on my own terms, knowing more about myself - rather than getting sucked into a legal path based on what I thought I should do, or was easiest to do.

[Winter is Coming]

The truth is that it depends. I turned 22 in the middle of OCI and never felt like my age was a problem. If you'd be 21 by OCI that's gonna be a speed bump but it isn't a disqualifier in any way if you honestly do carry yourself well--grades, charisma and good bidding trump all.

I know that most voices seem to go the other way on this, but count me as someone very relieved to have gone to law school early. When I think about the financial benchmarks that you need to hit in order to live a UMC life in the NYC area, having another year to build on that/compound investments is a huge relief for me, and more personally satisfying than having taken a year or two to go fuck around somewhere temporarily. Between college, the spring/summer I spent abroad after college, and 2L/3L, I feel like I've had plenty of time to fuck around. I feel bad for the kids that are going to start Biglaw at like 30--it seems like they've just wasted time to wind up in the same place as the 25-year-olds. Also, I couldn't imagine the stress of starting a family (like most people want to do by their early/mid-thirties) with the debt monster still hanging over your head.

In a lot of ways this is one of the saddest things I've ever read on TLS.

[fats provolone]

also lol at 2 yrs of "compound interest"

[deepseapartners]

I worked this past summer with a current 3L who, because he was getting a joint JD/LLB, was still 20. It was a bit socially awkward when he explained to partners at dinner why he wasn't drinking with us, but he seemed pretty happy with his life choices and was clearly excelling given his age.

Assuming that you have already made sure that you actually want to be a lawyer for the rest of your life (however you go about that process), I would still take some time off if you are able to afford to do so. But if you're not in a situation where your family can subsidize your NYC/LA/SF apartment while you enjoy your youth for a few years, and you don't have another path you could reasonably pursue that would give you financial stability as well as the free time to enjoy being young, then I think it makes sense to just go straight through.

[Traynor Brah]

I would advise you not matriculate until you are 21, at the absolute earliest.

[03152016]

But if you're not in a situation where your family can subsidize your NYC/LA/SF apartment while you enjoy your youth for a few years, and you don't have another path you could reasonably pursue that would give you financial stability as well as the free time to enjoy being young, then I think it makes sense to just go straight through.

lots of ppl get by in ny w/o parental support or a lot of money
u don't need to live in a trendy neighborhood or have a posh apartment
just live somewhere cheap and within walking distance to a subway

and it's not about having "financial stability as well as the free time to enjoy being young"
very few ppl have that
focusing on my art was challenging, meticulous, and frustrating work that didn't pay well
but it was worthwhile in the sense of it being extremely fulfilling to pursue my passion
idk if i rly characterize that as "enjoying being young" maybe maybe not
similarly, starting a business, i didn't have time to "enjoy being young" (at least once things took off), i worked more hours than just about anyone i knew
but it was a tremendous learning experience that taught me things about myself and changed how i see the world, and gave me an incredible sense of accomplishment
so in that sense it was "enjoyable," but it def wasn't about "free time to enjoy being young"
the benefits of my years off vastly, vastly outweigh the costs, but they're different benefits and costs than what some itt are talking about
the benefit is emphatically not abt taking a few years off to have a nice vacation and get subsidized by mommy and daddy
and the costs are not purely financial
some itt are misunderstanding b/c they're doing this cba purely in terms of comparing dollars to dollars and retirement accounts and compounding interest and don't see the value in gaining perspective, understanding, experience, and self-fulfillment, pursuing passions, taking risks, seeing the world outside of the walls of the classroom or firm
that's just a warped view of life imo
like i said earlier, i wouldn't trade the experiences of my gap years for any amount of money
they make my life rich in a way that a couple years of compounding interest could not

and it's hard to see that if u haven't done it

also let's not kid ourselves here
most law students aren't going to cadwalader
going straight through instead of retaking or reassessing law school altogether will usually result in disaster
op, for example, is applying with a sub 3 gpa and a 15x to some not-so-great schools, so let's not pretend we're doing him any favors telling him not to wait it out

[deepseapartners]

and it's hard to see that if u haven't done it

Fair enough, but I suspect that because OP is <21 and already applying to law school, or at least looking at it, their interests/passions are probably more in the "rigorous academic" camp than the artistic or entrepreneurial camp. I could be totally off base, but that's what I assume about super young college grads at least.

[03152016]

could b
otoh, given op's numbers, not so sure abt the "rigorous academic" thing
(no offense intended op)

[Winter is Coming]

Also, OP considering TTT schools also completely changes the game. Thanks Brut.

I thought we were talking about someone who was going to HYS (which makes the whole "why wait two extra years for Biglaw thing going on ITT make even less sense - 2 extra years of "compound interest" doesn't do anything if you don't have a job).

OP doing almost anything in the world would be better than going to law school right now.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Oh yeah sort of a separate point but at a 2.8/157 OP shouldn't be considering law school, young age notwithstanding.

OP, go be a normal 19 year old for the time being.