Is going to law school at age of 21 too young? Forum

[star fox]

Maybe at smaller firms but I haven't seen a real difference between people who need H1B Visas compared to US Citizens. It may even be a small advantage at certain firms that play up how international they are. I think having a weaker resume is a bigger detriment. But I guess if there's data to contrary out there I'll defer since this is all purely anecdotal.

[ihenry]

Maybe at smaller firms but I haven't seen a real difference between people who need H1B Visas compared to US Citizens. It may even be a small advantage at certain firms that play up how international they are. I think having a weaker resume is a bigger detriment. But I guess if there's data to contrary out there I'll defer since this is all purely anecdotal.

I don't think there will be data out there, due to small sample size and the fact that many internationals are self selected out (back to their home countries). I do think it would be harder for employment but the problem is how much harder.

[retaking23]

If you get good enough grades during 1L, your age won't matter. Grades aren't a function of age either. But, it's pretty fucking hard to predict grades even for classes you think you crushed. Beware the curve.

Grades aside, interviewing skills---READ: personality---and experience are the two biggest factors in getting a job. If you've got the personality of a soft shell taco, you'd better have something else to talk about to pull you through. For most, that's their work experience.

If you are an international student, this can cut both ways. If you are trying to sell your interest in working at a firm that does loads of international work, it would help but it might hurt in other areas.

[TheSpanishMain]

OP, you'll be fine. K-JD kids do just as well as people with WE.

This is all anecdotal, but from what I've seen the opposite is true. K-JDs seem to struggle significantly more in the job hunt than people with some decent WE.

Obviously, a K-D with great grades is going to do fine. I'm not saying that you must have WE to land a job, but I do think there is a non-negligible boost if you have 2-3 years professional experience.

[Companion Cube]

OP, you'll be fine. K-JD kids do just as well as people with WE.

This is all anecdotal, but from what I've seen the opposite is true. K-JDs seem to struggle significantly more in the job hunt than people with some decent WE.

Obviously, a K-D with great grades is going to do fine. I'm not saying that you must have WE to land a job, but I do think there is a non-negligible boost if you have 2-3 years professional experience.

I actually agree as far as OCI goes. If 2 people have the same grades at OCI, historically the person with more WE has a better outcome. But I do think as far as getting those grades, K-JDs are on the same playing field. At least that's how it turned out at my school.

[TheSpanishMain]

OP, you'll be fine. K-JD kids do just as well as people with WE.

This is all anecdotal, but from what I've seen the opposite is true. K-JDs seem to struggle significantly more in the job hunt than people with some decent WE.

Obviously, a K-D with great grades is going to do fine. I'm not saying that you must have WE to land a job, but I do think there is a non-negligible boost if you have 2-3 years professional experience.

I actually agree as far as OCI goes. If 2 people have the same grades at OCI, historically the person with more WE has a better outcome. But I do think as far as getting those grades, K-JDs are on the same playing field. At least that's how it turned out at my school.

Oh, yeah, that much I agree with. Maybe I just misunderstood.

I think WE gives you a boost in hiring/interviewing, but yeah, you're not going to magically outperform k-jds on exams just because you're older.

[Broscientist]

A kid in my class just turned 20 like last week(1L).

A 2L in my class still hasn't turned 21.

[j907]

Get a Masters in MIS at University of Texas at Dallas. All you need is a GRE score. I worked at an immigration law firm in Dallas and 90% of my work involved processing work visas for international students from UTD. I know it's anecdotal but I think there is sufficient data to establish that Dallas is one of the most employment friendly cities for people who don't have immigrant visas.

No matter what you decide, don't go to law school just so that you can stay in the country. It's a really bad idea since you could end up with significant debt and no job offers.

[still]

theres a 17 year old in my 1L section

100% dead serious

[Tiny123]

Get a Masters in MIS at University of Texas at Dallas. All you need is a GRE score. I worked at an immigration law firm in Dallas and 90% of my work involved processing work visas for international students from UTD. I know it's anecdotal but I think there is sufficient data to establish that Dallas is one of the most employment friendly cities for people who don't have immigrant visas.

No matter what you decide, don't go to law school just so that you can stay in the country. It's a really bad idea since you could end up with significant debt and no job offers.

I been in U.S for 7 years, I think there is really no turning back because I got no friends and no close family left in China. I want to go to law school because I actually like Law, I know undergraduate law class is different than law school, but i did really good and I actually enjoyed it. IS there any good law school is Dallas area? I heard from my friends at UTD the city is nice.

[Troianii]

I started college when i was 17. Changed major many times due to family issue (Parents want me to be a math professor duh), took classes every summer and will be finishing up college in Dec 2015. The plan was to apply for LS for fall 2016, but after reading through all the post on TLS, it seems like everyone thinks going to LS at a young age is a very bad idea.

My problem is that I been in U.S for 7 years and I am still an international student, and I am majoring in Public policy and poli sci. All the jobs posting I seen for my major requires either a green card or citizenship. My mom, step dad and my little brother are in U.S with their green card and I dont know where my dad is, so if I go back to China I will have no friend, no family and possibly no job because I really dont know what could I do with a American poli sci major in China.

I am struggling with whether going to LS this year or go figure something else. Probably not going to be working anyways if I end up taking couple years off. (Travelling around the world?)

I know 19 is too young for LS, 25 is a great age, but how about 21?

I wouldn't put too much stock into the "too young" bit. You'll hear many talk about people being "too young" for this or that, but it really isn't a matter of age, its of maturity, as cliche as that is to say at this point. When I was in the service I knew guys with a wife and kids before they turned 21, and they were damned mature. Then I knew guys who were in their late 20s and still lived as much as they could as I did when I was 14 - just living to play mindless video games. And I can tell you right now, the guy who was 19 with a wife and kids was not "too young", the guy in his late 20s with a console and TV was "too young".

And it doesn't sound like you're "too young", though I could be wrong - taking two years off and just traveling sounds like an idea that someone "too young" would have. In some ways, I really envy you. If I understand you right that you could potentially be entering law school at 19, if so f-all, go ahead and do it. Hell I'd love to be a 22yo lawyer. I'm looking at the prospect of starting my legal career just shy of 30yo. Starting a career young isn't a bad thing, it gives you leg up "on life".

[Troianii]

theres a 17 year old in my 1L section

100% dead serious

Such cases are odd. I both envy and pity them greatly.

[BigZuck]

I started college when i was 17. Changed major many times due to family issue (Parents want me to be a math professor duh), took classes every summer and will be finishing up college in Dec 2015. The plan was to apply for LS for fall 2016, but after reading through all the post on TLS, it seems like everyone thinks going to LS at a young age is a very bad idea.

My problem is that I been in U.S for 7 years and I am still an international student, and I am majoring in Public policy and poli sci. All the jobs posting I seen for my major requires either a green card or citizenship. My mom, step dad and my little brother are in U.S with their green card and I dont know where my dad is, so if I go back to China I will have no friend, no family and possibly no job because I really dont know what could I do with a American poli sci major in China.

I am struggling with whether going to LS this year or go figure something else. Probably not going to be working anyways if I end up taking couple years off. (Travelling around the world?)

I know 19 is too young for LS, 25 is a great age, but how about 21?

I wouldn't put too much stock into the "too young" bit. You'll hear many talk about people being "too young" for this or that, but it really isn't a matter of age, its of maturity, as cliche as that is to say at this point. When I was in the service I knew guys with a wife and kids before they turned 21, and they were damned mature. Then I knew guys who were in their late 20s and still lived as much as they could as I did when I was 14 - just living to play mindless video games. And I can tell you right now, the guy who was 19 with a wife and kids was not "too young", the guy in his late 20s with a console and TV was "too young".

And it doesn't sound like you're "too young", though I could be wrong - taking two years off and just traveling sounds like an idea that someone "too young" would have. In some ways, I really envy you. If I understand you right that you could potentially be entering law school at 19, if so f-all, go ahead and do it. Hell I'd love to be a 22yo lawyer. I'm looking at the prospect of starting my legal career just shy of 30yo. Starting a career young isn't a bad thing, it gives you leg up "on life".

Please ignore "this post" OP

If you really can travel the world now, do it

[RaceJudicata]

Only 3 weeks in but at Duke its extremely clear who the young straight out of undergrad students are and even the students who just took 1 year off. Out of the people struggling the most, it is definitely the straight out of undergrads who are not dealing with the stress level and work already.

Based on what? Class participation? NEVER make these assumptions until grades come out. Plenty of the kids who you thought "got it" will do poorly, while many of those who are "clearly struggling" will be at the top of the class.

[Tiny123]

I started college when i was 17. Changed major many times due to family issue (Parents want me to be a math professor duh), took classes every summer and will be finishing up college in Dec 2015. The plan was to apply for LS for fall 2016, but after reading through all the post on TLS, it seems like everyone thinks going to LS at a young age is a very bad idea.

My problem is that I been in U.S for 7 years and I am still an international student, and I am majoring in Public policy and poli sci. All the jobs posting I seen for my major requires either a green card or citizenship. My mom, step dad and my little brother are in U.S with their green card and I dont know where my dad is, so if I go back to China I will have no friend, no family and possibly no job because I really dont know what could I do with a American poli sci major in China.

I am struggling with whether going to LS this year or go figure something else. Probably not going to be working anyways if I end up taking couple years off. (Travelling around the world?)

I know 19 is too young for LS, 25 is a great age, but how about 21?

I wouldn't put too much stock into the "too young" bit. You'll hear many talk about people being "too young" for this or that, but it really isn't a matter of age, its of maturity, as cliche as that is to say at this point. When I was in the service I knew guys with a wife and kids before they turned 21, and they were damned mature. Then I knew guys who were in their late 20s and still lived as much as they could as I did when I was 14 - just living to play mindless video games. And I can tell you right now, the guy who was 19 with a wife and kids was not "too young", the guy in his late 20s with a console and TV was "too young".

And it doesn't sound like you're "too young", though I could be wrong - taking two years off and just traveling sounds like an idea that someone "too young" would have. In some ways, I really envy you. If I understand you right that you could potentially be entering law school at 19, if so f-all, go ahead and do it. Hell I'd love to be a 22yo lawyer. I'm looking at the prospect of starting my legal career just shy of 30yo. Starting a career young isn't a bad thing, it gives you leg up "on life".

Please ignore "this post" OP

If you really can travel the world now, do it

Age itself is not my biggest concern, I been living on my own for the past 7 years, I can take care myself and my study well enough to go to law school, at least that is my opinion. The biggest concern I am having is the fact that once I am in law school, I have no chance of taking a year off just to try out things anymore. Every summer is lined up with internship of some sort, and after graduation there will be more to do. I am actually a little scare of it.

[rpupkin]

Age itself is not my biggest concern, I been living on my own for the past 7 years, I can take care myself and my study well enough to go to law school, at least that is my opinion. The biggest concern I am having is the fact that once I am in law school, I have no chance of taking a year off just to try out things anymore. Every summer is lined up with internship of some sort, and after graduation there will be more to do. I am actually a little scare of it.

You should be. Enjoy life for at least a couple of years before jumping on the treadmill.

[earthabides]

.

[rpupkin]

lol @ people always presenting this "take time off and experience the world go exploring!!" option. The majority of people can not afford to travel.

Don't be dumb. When I was 22, I couldn't afford to travel the world for two years. But I could get a relatively low-stress job and focus on hobbies and relationships in my free time. And then I could leave my job, maybe travel cheaply for a couple of months, and then find another job. Good luck simulating that kind of experience once you graduate law school.

[earthabides]

.

[BigZuck]

lol @ people always presenting this "take time off and experience the world go exploring!!" option. The majority of people can not afford to travel.

Considering the OP said multiple times that traveling around the world is an option, they were the one that presented it as an option. We responded to that.

Y u mad tho

[AdamDeMamp]

It worked out for Adolf Berle

[Troianii]

Age itself is not my biggest concern, I been living on my own for the past 7 years, I can take care myself and my study well enough to go to law school, at least that is my opinion. The biggest concern I am having is the fact that once I am in law school, I have no chance of taking a year off just to try out things anymore. Every summer is lined up with internship of some sort, and after graduation there will be more to do. I am actually a little scare of it.

you just need to sit and think about your values. I've traveled - traveling for such extended periods of time is over-rated. You're right that you won't have much free time in law school, while school is in session and during the summer - you will (or at least should be) studying your butt off and then taking internships in the summers. But you'll have plenty enough time, imo, for vacation while in law school. Here's an example, with BU. They're schedule runs Aug27-Dec21, and Jan4-May15. So that's two weeks off for Christmas and New Years, and generally speaking you should still have some time off between May and your internship - not much, but some time, so you should be looking at 20-30 days off a year while in law school. Starting out in law, assuming you're going biglaw, typical is 15-20days/year vacation time (based on a quick google search) for the first few years, and that goes up over time. That's plenty of time for me.

Now maybe you prefer to travel the world for two years, but from my experience 20 vacation days a year is plenty enough, and I've worked the long weeks. I know what it's like to put in the long hours, far more than the median lawyer does, and imo working 60hrs/wk with 20days vacation/yr is fine. I'd rather get on moving with my life and career.

I think what you really need to ask yourself is, if you're so dreading the long hours and the little vacation time (which I'd actually dispute that you won't get much vacation time, but that's relative), then you may want to think a bit more about what you want to do. If you can't be happy working 60hrs/wk with 20 vacation days a year, then there are other options for you, and they aren't all "don't practice law". Vacation days are just a part of a compensation package - if you want to you can offer to take less pay in exchange for more vacation days.

[BigZuck]

Age itself is not my biggest concern, I been living on my own for the past 7 years, I can take care myself and my study well enough to go to law school, at least that is my opinion. The biggest concern I am having is the fact that once I am in law school, I have no chance of taking a year off just to try out things anymore. Every summer is lined up with internship of some sort, and after graduation there will be more to do. I am actually a little scare of it.

you just need to sit and think about your values. I've traveled - traveling for such extended periods of time is over-rated. You're right that you won't have much free time in law school, while school is in session and during the summer - you will (or at least should be) studying your butt off and then taking internships in the summers. But you'll have plenty enough time, imo, for vacation while in law school. Here's an example, with BU. They're schedule runs Aug27-Dec21, and Jan4-May15. So that's two weeks off for Christmas and New Years, and generally speaking you should still have some time off between May and your internship - not much, but some time, so you should be looking at 20-30 days off a year while in law school. Starting out in law, assuming you're going biglaw, typical is 15-20days/year vacation time (based on a quick google search) for the first few years, and that goes up over time. That's plenty of time for me.

Now maybe you prefer to travel the world for two years, but from my experience 20 vacation days a year is plenty enough, and I've worked the long weeks. I know what it's like to put in the long hours, far more than the median lawyer does, and imo working 60hrs/wk with 20days vacation/yr is fine. I'd rather get on moving with my life and career.

I think what you really need to ask yourself is, if you're so dreading the long hours and the little vacation time (which I'd actually dispute that you won't get much vacation time, but that's relative), then you may want to think a bit more about what you want to do. If you can't be happy working 60hrs/wk with 20 vacation days a year, then there are other options for you, and they aren't all "don't practice law". Vacation days are just a part of a compensation package - if you want to you can offer to take less pay in exchange for more vacation days.

I'm not sure you understand how vacation in big law usually works

Oftentimes you have unlimited vacation which means you take less vacation then someone working in another industry, especially when you're a junior lawyer

And you almost certainly can't negotiate less salary for more vacation days

I'm guessing most smaller firms are similar (although maybe not the unlimited vacation thing)

Anyway you slice it, ignore this post OP. Anyone who tells you to attend law school at 21 rather than travel the world doesn't have your best interests in mind.

[linda0012]

A kid in my class just turned 20 like last week(1L).

A 2L in my class still hasn't turned 21.

Why is that? I think there is some problem with that.

[Phil Brooks]

I'm sure you will get a job at OCI despite being K-JD. That's not the issue. The issue is will you have had the life and work experience to make an informed job decision that you will not regret two months after passing the bar.

K-JDs in my observation tend to be the most offending of prestige whores. They have never worked full-time before, so they do not know the type of values, culture, structure, financial model that they seek in a workplace. They are just used to climbing onto the next rung, so come OCI they reach for that shiny Vault ranking without giving it a second thought. Oh, wait, "exit options."