WVU vs. Maine Forum

Mack.Hambleton · Post by **Mack.Hambleton** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:51 am

Don't go

ms2dai · Post by **ms2dai** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:55 am

pancakes3 wrote:
ms2dai wrote: Even if I focused on the LSAT I may get the same score. Same thing happened with the SAT. In different programs for SAT excellence and bombed it. Could have saved that money. I test better under different circumstances. I know for many schools it's a risk to accept me but I'm not that type of student. Just makes me look bad. I don't know why I think I will fare better ... I guess I'm hopeful that something will come up in some state.
Law school classes do not give participation points and don't care how hard you work, or what type of student you are. You have 1 final that accounts for 100% of your grade. That's it. At a school like Maine or WVU, if you bomb even 1 test out of the 6-8 exams your first year, your entire legal career will be in jeopardy.

Everybody who's going to be in the top x% of the class that gets a job hustles as hard as you do (or more), and everyone has the same 24 hrs to work with.

On top of that, with a forced curve, there could be no significant difference between a B-exam and an A-exam.

This isn't meant to scare you. It's just reality.

In Med School, if you graduate, even at the bottom of your class, you still get to be a doctor and get paid as such. This is not the case for law school. If you graduate even at the bottom half of a school like Maine or WVU, you don't get to be a lawyer. Period. Full stop. And you have $180,000 in student loans to pay back.

So yeah, you should go ahead and "waste" that money on as many LSAT retakes as necessary. Also, hopefully you'll put in more fervor studying for the LSAT now than you did for the LSAT as a 16 year old, now that you're more mature. You should also be studying smarter. There are a lot of guides on this site that will really help you out. Just taking a Kaplan class or whatever really isn't going to cut it. You've got to put in work - and if you're not willing to put in the work for the LSAT, chances are you're not going to be willing to put in the work at Maine or WVU either and end up with crap grades and an ass-ton of debt to show for it.

This is great advice and very helpful. I appreciate what you are saying. With the LST reports showing similar numbers that aren't great I really need to look at this more in depth. I think I'll look at the attrition rates and the conditions on their scholarships as well. What's the difference if you bomb at Maine or WVU versus somewhere else. Isn't failing failing???

Thanks for the reality check. Makes sense.

ms2dai · Post by **ms2dai** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:59 am

unsweetened wrote:
ms2dai wrote:
unsweetened wrote:I'm originally from MD and went to WVU for undergrad. It's low cost of living and much easier to establish ties in WV. The problem that I ran into is that WV as a whole has little in the way of economic opportunity, so I left.
Hey unsweetened, were you able to find work elsewhere within a decent amount of time? Interesting though ... I've seen on some of its reporting that some have found employment in DC so maybe there is hope???
I got a job in California six months after graduating, but it's undergrad and many of those rules don't necessarily apply to law school. A lot of WVU students are from Maryland, DC, and Virginia, so they most likely have very strong ties to those areas. Getting into DC would be tough - you would be competing for jobs with grads from Georgetown, UVA, and Duke that also have ties to DC. I guess you could call a 4/129 chance of landing in DC hopeful, but take it as you will.
If you can re-take, do it. Get a tutor if you have to. Spending the money for a re-take, study materials, or even a tutor is pretty smart when it means better schools open up and you can get scholarship $$$.

If you have your mind set on one or the other, WVU looks like a better option.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/wvu/maine/
At a glance, it's cheaper and employment numbers are slightly better.
The undergrad women are generally very attractive and Morgantown is a great gameday environment as well (but these are terrible reasons to attend law school there).

Hmmm ... I hear ya. It does look like WVU is slightly better but they are really close even though one is ranked 94 and the other 110.

ms2dai · Post by **ms2dai** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:00 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:Don't go

To either?? I'm hoping to go somewhere in the next couple of weeks.

Traynor Brah · Post by **Traynor Brah** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:01 pm

ms2dai wrote:
Traynor Brah wrote:hey kid it's your funeral. can't say you weren't warned.
I rather go out trying to make something better out of my life. I just need an opinion on where to get that rolling. Sounds like either choice is not a choice from the TLS folks.

that's what we're saying. it is much more likely that either of these schools would make your life worse. these are seriously poor options and you are almost certainly going to regret attending either. but what do we know? surely not as much as some (not) random sampling of grads from the 90s who told you they liked their alma mater.

PoopNpants · Post by **PoopNpants** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:04 pm

ms2dai wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:Don't go
To either?? I'm hoping to go somewhere in the next couple of weeks.

Seriously don't go to either both these schools suck

Mack.Hambleton · Post by **Mack.Hambleton** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:06 pm

ms2dai wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:Don't go
To either?? I'm hoping to go somewhere in the next couple of weeks.

yes it would be a very bad decision

pancakes3 · Post by **pancakes3** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:09 pm

ms2dai wrote: What's the difference if you bomb at Maine or WVU versus somewhere else. Isn't failing failing???

Eyes on the prize. The ultimate goal is employment. From Maine/WVU, half the people gain employment so if you're in the bottom half, you've bombed. If your curve is set at a 3.3, any grade lower than a 3.3 (B+ on down) and you've effectively failed. For higher ranked schools, you can be below median and still be gainfully employed, so bombing to them is a much lower grade than for someone at Maine/WVU.

You absolutely should not go to law school with these two schools as your option. If you do, you aren't grasping just how shitty the consequences are.

TheSpanishMain · Post by **TheSpanishMain** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:52 pm

ms2dai wrote: What's the difference if you bomb at Maine or WVU versus somewhere else. Isn't failing failing???

Thanks for the reality check. Makes sense.

Sort of. It's just at better schools, a much lower percentage of the class "fails." If you have crappy grades from a good school, odds are you'll at least find something, even if it's not ideal. If you have crappy grades from Maine or WVU, you probably work at Chipotle.

shump92 · Post by **shump92** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:56 pm

ms2dai wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:Don't go
To either?? I'm hoping to go somewhere in the next couple of weeks.

At least give yourself a year to improve on the LSAT. You objectively do not have good options right now. You would be no worse off putting off attending a low T2 school in a year if that is the best you can do. Why not just go for that LSAT improvement now? If you are this committed to law, I think you should go within a year but don't just settle for these options. If this is the best you would have in a year, that is a different situation. But having one more cycle at the LSAT regardless of cost, is totally worth lessening the pressure that you will not get to be a lawyer.

foregetaboutdre · Post by **foregetaboutdre** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:05 am

It's going to pain me to say this because I think it should be a given/a rule if you are attending a regional to be FROM that regional or a state over to establish ties....so first where are you from and think about that law school.

If you ABSOLUTELY want to go to LS at a school like WVU and Maine look at New Mexico (http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/newmexico/2014/). It has a 78% score, which isn't bad. However, not sure about salaries (you will probably make 45k as a lawyer out of LS from extreme regionals like these).

I feel a little disingenuous giving you advice to attend a school I know nothing about/you may have no ties to. Please reconsider your options and do a lot of research into retaking the LSAT etc... before making a rash decision to attend LS.

basedvulpes · Post by **basedvulpes** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:10 am

Post removed.

wvumountaineer · Post by **wvumountaineer** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:35 am

I graduated from WVU Law this year. I think it's a diamond in the rough IF and probably ONLY IF you want to practice/don't mind practicing in West Virginia. I know there are attorneys in West Virginia that are swamped with work, want to hire students, and can't find anyone to hire because no one wants to start their career in a backward small town in West Virginia -- and many students can't afford it either. But, if you like the idea of graduating from law school and shaping yourself into a big fish in one of many small little towns that no one has ever heard of, WVU might be the school for you. There are a lot of employers here that are irrationally loyal to WVU too, especially with the smaller firms. There are an alarming amount of employers here that would hire a student that gets a 3.5 from WVU over someone that gets an equivalent GPA from even a top law school -- which, may sound unbelievable, but it's true. The people of West Virginia are very loyal to their own.

I think it's one of the best value schools in the country. A lot of students out of my class found jobs (then again, I'm biased, I was pretty high in my class). Median salary for graduates is only ~$60,000 or so, though, but the cost of living in West Virginia is very low too. Even some of the students that got associate positions with some of the larger firms in the state are only starting out between 68k and 80k or so from what I gather.

Morgantown's a good location too -- Pittsburgh is close (an hour away or so), and Morgantown is very up and coming. It's pretty much the opposite of what an outsider would expect of West Virginia -- it's fairly liberal and progressive and it's only getting better. The professors here are mostly high-quality, and the school just built a new state of the art library and completely remodeled the entire lobby. It's really nice. Oh, and the law school is a baseball's throw away from the football stadium, and is a great tailgating spot on game days.

TL;DR - If you want to work/don't mind working in WV, I'd really look into it. It's really a steal in terms of value. If you don't, stay away because the WVU name carries basically no weight outside of WV.

PoopNpants · Post by **PoopNpants** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:39 am

[quote="wvumountaineer"]I graduated from WVU Law this year. I think it's a diamond in the rough IF and probably ONLY IF you want to practice/don't mind practicing in West Virginia. I know there are attorneys in West Virginia that are swamped with work, want to hire students, and can't find anyone to hire because no one wants to start their career in a backward small town in West Virginia -- and many students can't afford it either. But, if you like the idea of graduating from law school and shaping yourself into a big fish in one of many small little towns that no one has ever heard of, WVU might be the school for you. There are a lot of employers here that are irrationally loyal to WVU too, especially with the smaller firms. There are an alarming amount of employers here that would hire a student that gets a 3.5 from WVU over someone that gets an equivalent GPA from even a top law school -- which, may sound unbelievable, but it's true. The people of West Virginia are very loyal to their own.

I think it's one of the best value schools in the country. A lot of students out of my class found jobs (then again, I'm biased, I was pretty high in my class). Median salary for graduates is only ~$60,000 or so, though, but the cost of living in West Virginia is very low too. Even some of the students that got associate positions with some of the larger firms in the state are only starting out between 68k and 80k or so from what I gather.

Morgantown's a good location too -- Pittsburgh is close (an hour away or so), and Morgantown is very up and coming. It's pretty much the opposite of what an outsider would expect of West Virginia -- it's fairly liberal and progressive and it's only getting better. The professors here are mostly high-quality, and the school just built a new state of the art library and completely remodeled the entire lobby. It's really nice. Oh, and the law school is a baseball's throw away from the football stadium, and is a great tailgating spot on game days.

TL;DR - If you want to work/don't mind working in WV, I'd really look into it. It's really a steal in terms of value. If you don't, stay away.[/quote]

ms2dai · Post by **ms2dai** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:52 am

basedvulpes wrote:
foregetaboutdre wrote:It's going to pain me to say this because I think it should be a given/a rule if you are attending a regional to be FROM that regional or a state over to establish ties....so first where are you from and think about that law school.
+1, why not go to a comparable school in place you actually have ties? Still might be an uphill battle, but it will make things easier.

I have no ties anywhere. It will be something to overcome no matter where I go.

ms2dai · Post by **ms2dai** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:53 am

foregetaboutdre wrote:It's going to pain me to say this because I think it should be a given/a rule if you are attending a regional to be FROM that regional or a state over to establish ties....so first where are you from and think about that law school.

If you ABSOLUTELY want to go to LS at a school like WVU and Maine look at New Mexico (http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/newmexico/2014/). It has a 78% score, which isn't bad. However, not sure about salaries (you will probably make 45k as a lawyer out of LS from extreme regionals like these).

I feel a little disingenuous giving you advice to attend a school I know nothing about/you may have no ties to. Please reconsider your options and do a lot of research into retaking the LSAT etc... before making a rash decision to attend LS.

I've heard good things about UNM but it may be too late in the game especially with the grade/LSAT combo I have. I appreciate your advice though and was surprised to see UNM with such a high employment rate.

ms2dai · Post by **ms2dai** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:56 am

PoopNpants wrote:[quote="wvumountaineer"]I graduated from WVU Law this year. I think it's a diamond in the rough IF and probably ONLY IF you want to practice/don't mind practicing in West Virginia. I know there are attorneys in West Virginia that are swamped with work, want to hire students, and can't find anyone to hire because no one wants to start their career in a backward small town in West Virginia -- and many students can't afford it either. But, if you like the idea of graduating from law school and shaping yourself into a big fish in one of many small little towns that no one has ever heard of, WVU might be the school for you. There are a lot of employers here that are irrationally loyal to WVU too, especially with the smaller firms. There are an alarming amount of employers here that would hire a student that gets a 3.5 from WVU over someone that gets an equivalent GPA from even a top law school -- which, may sound unbelievable, but it's true. The people of West Virginia are very loyal to their own.

I think it's one of the best value schools in the country. A lot of students out of my class found jobs (then again, I'm biased, I was pretty high in my class). Median salary for graduates is only ~$60,000 or so, though, but the cost of living in West Virginia is very low too. Even some of the students that got associate positions with some of the larger firms in the state are only starting out between 68k and 80k or so from what I gather.

Morgantown's a good location too -- Pittsburgh is close (an hour away or so), and Morgantown is very up and coming. It's pretty much the opposite of what an outsider would expect of West Virginia -- it's fairly liberal and progressive and it's only getting better. The professors here are mostly high-quality, and the school just built a new state of the art library and completely remodeled the entire lobby. It's really nice. Oh, and the law school is a baseball's throw away from the football stadium, and is a great tailgating spot on game days.

TL;DR - If you want to work/don't mind working in WV, I'd really look into it. It's really a steal in terms of value. If you don't, stay away.

[/quote]

You are wrong for that PoopNpants.

Everyone needs an option and those are the two I am dealing with...

A. Nony Mouse · Post by **A. Nony Mouse** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:57 am

PoopNpants wrote:[quote="wvumountaineer"]I graduated from WVU Law this year. I think it's a diamond in the rough IF and probably ONLY IF you want to practice/don't mind practicing in West Virginia. I know there are attorneys in West Virginia that are swamped with work, want to hire students, and can't find anyone to hire because no one wants to start their career in a backward small town in West Virginia -- and many students can't afford it either. But, if you like the idea of graduating from law school and shaping yourself into a big fish in one of many small little towns that no one has ever heard of, WVU might be the school for you. There are a lot of employers here that are irrationally loyal to WVU too, especially with the smaller firms. There are an alarming amount of employers here that would hire a student that gets a 3.5 from WVU over someone that gets an equivalent GPA from even a top law school -- which, may sound unbelievable, but it's true. The people of West Virginia are very loyal to their own.

I think it's one of the best value schools in the country. A lot of students out of my class found jobs (then again, I'm biased, I was pretty high in my class). Median salary for graduates is only ~$60,000 or so, though, but the cost of living in West Virginia is very low too. Even some of the students that got associate positions with some of the larger firms in the state are only starting out between 68k and 80k or so from what I gather.

Morgantown's a good location too -- Pittsburgh is close (an hour away or so), and Morgantown is very up and coming. It's pretty much the opposite of what an outsider would expect of West Virginia -- it's fairly liberal and progressive and it's only getting better. The professors here are mostly high-quality, and the school just built a new state of the art library and completely remodeled the entire lobby. It's really nice. Oh, and the law school is a baseball's throw away from the football stadium, and is a great tailgating spot on game days.

TL;DR - If you want to work/don't mind working in WV, I'd really look into it. It's really a steal in terms of value. If you don't, stay away.

[/quote]
I think that's a little harsh, dude.

ms2dai · Post by **ms2dai** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:00 pm

wvumountaineer wrote:I graduated from WVU Law this year. I think it's a diamond in the rough IF and probably ONLY IF you want to practice/don't mind practicing in West Virginia. I know there are attorneys in West Virginia that are swamped with work, want to hire students, and can't find anyone to hire because no one wants to start their career in a backward small town in West Virginia -- and many students can't afford it either. But, if you like the idea of graduating from law school and shaping yourself into a big fish in one of many small little towns that no one has ever heard of, WVU might be the school for you. There are a lot of employers here that are irrationally loyal to WVU too, especially with the smaller firms. There are an alarming amount of employers here that would hire a student that gets a 3.5 from WVU over someone that gets an equivalent GPA from even a top law school -- which, may sound unbelievable, but it's true. The people of West Virginia are very loyal to their own.

I think it's one of the best value schools in the country. A lot of students out of my class found jobs (then again, I'm biased, I was pretty high in my class). Median salary for graduates is only ~$60,000 or so, though, but the cost of living in West Virginia is very low too. Even some of the students that got associate positions with some of the larger firms in the state are only starting out between 68k and 80k or so from what I gather.

Morgantown's a good location too -- Pittsburgh is close (an hour away or so), and Morgantown is very up and coming. It's pretty much the opposite of what an outsider would expect of West Virginia -- it's fairly liberal and progressive and it's only getting better. The professors here are mostly high-quality, and the school just built a new state of the art library and completely remodeled the entire lobby. It's really nice. Oh, and the law school is a baseball's throw away from the football stadium, and is a great tailgating spot on game days.

TL;DR - If you want to work/don't mind working in WV, I'd really look into it. It's really a steal in terms of value. If you don't, stay away because the WVU name carries basically no weight outside of WV.

Hey, thanks. Glad to hear from someone that attended WVU. Did you stay in WV or go elsewhere? Did you have ample opportunity outside of class to "think like a lawyer?" Was it cutthroat? Insanely competitive?

PoopNpants · Post by **PoopNpants** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:16 pm

My bad, I'm just a little suspicious. A username called "WVUmountaineer" just happens to join TLS at this exact moment and makes his first post on a WVU-related forum, a school which is rarely discussed on this website, and makes a very persuasive spiel about attending WVU. seems like too much a coincidence tbh

pancakes3 · Post by **pancakes3** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:28 pm

PoopNpants wrote:My bad, I'm just a little suspicious. A username called "WVUmountaineer" just happens to join TLS at this exact moment and makes his first post on a WVU-related forum, a school which is rarely discussed on this website, and makes a very persuasive spiel about attending WVU. seems like too much a coincidence tbh

I think it's just a lurker. However, I do think it's a bad post with worse timing bc it gives the OP the sliver of confirmation bias that cements her decision to go to WVU despite upwards of a dozen posters telling her not to.

stego · Post by **stego** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:33 pm

On the one hand . . . it's probably true that there are some rural Appalachian communities that need lawyers.

On the other hand . . . about half of WVU law grads still aren't getting jobs as lawyers. So the idea that WVU law = a job in West Virginia is flame.

Besides, who wants to live in rural Appalachia if you're not from there anyway?

basedvulpes · Post by **basedvulpes** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:35 pm

Post removed.

wvumountaineer · Post by **wvumountaineer** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:42 pm

pancakes3 wrote:
PoopNpants wrote:My bad, I'm just a little suspicious. A username called "WVUmountaineer" just happens to join TLS at this exact moment and makes his first post on a WVU-related forum, a school which is rarely discussed on this website, and makes a very persuasive spiel about attending WVU. seems like too much a coincidence tbh
I think it's just a lurker. However, I do think it's a bad post with worse timing bc it gives the OP the sliver of confirmation bias that cements her decision to go to WVU despite upwards of a dozen posters telling her not to.

Yeah, I read a lot of the stuff on these forums. I'm taking the bar exam on Tuesday so I read a lot of the stuff over there -- advice threads, etc. I just never had a real reason to post.

My impression is that WVU is competitive, but it probably isn't as "cut throat" as a lot of law schools. Everyone got along in my class super well at least through the first semester -- then, people started breaking off into different social groups/cliques and there was a little bit of tension after the first round of grades came out. I don't think there was any real drama that happened in my class, but there were certainly some tense moments -- but that probably happens everywhere.

I'm also not sure what the exact employment rate for my class is, but I'd bet dollars to donuts it's higher than 50%. Last year, career services claimed it was closer to 90%, but I think those figures were an exaggeration. I think it's probably somewhere in between those two -- if I had to guess, I'd bet 2/3 of my class has a job opportunity lined up. Not all of the students here are great about filling out the employment surveys and sending them back in, which is where those figures come from a lot of the time.

Like I said, if you want to stay in West Virginia, it's a good school. The dozens of posters telling you not to are just people disillusioned by law school in general and have no knowledge of the West Virginia legal market -- they're just pulling statistics off the Internet. I'm telling you what I know based off of three years of experience living in Morgantown and from growing up around lawyers in West Virginia.

It all boils down to this -- if you want to stay in WV, and you're willing to work hard, you will be fine. The WV Legal Market is not as bad as many places. If you want to leave after three years here, you probably should not waste your time because no one cares about WVU outside of WV.

ms2dai · Post by **ms2dai** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:56 pm

PoopNpants wrote:My bad, I'm just a little suspicious. A username called "WVUmountaineer" just happens to join TLS at this exact moment and makes his first post on a WVU-related forum, a school which is rarely discussed on this website, and makes a very persuasive spiel about attending WVU. seems like too much a coincidence tbh

Good call ... missed the joined date.