No debt at UW-Madison or lower T14 at sticker? Forum

[MarkfromWI]

What do you mean "good position with a firm"? If you're talking BIG CHEESEHEAD LAW I'm sure that's a very select group of people. You'd likely have to be top 10% at UW to even have a shot and even then there's no guarantees. Schmo-y top 20% bro will be dead in the water I have to imagine.

^Truth. The only thing top 20% will "secure" you are a few screeners at OCI. The instate tuition is nice, though, so IF you can get a decent scholarship you'd be doing alright if you don't mind not getting biglaw.

[dood]

yo dogg, as a preliminary matter, your post is so premature, but whatever. you're assuming you'll get in based on numbers? I would never hire you.

"To secure a good position with a firm in Madison/Milwaukee I will likely have to finish in the top-20% or so at WI." define that. ill tell you that was certainty not even close to true with respect to Foley, Quarles, or Michael Best, at least during the shit economy i graduated in 2012, according to family friends who are or were partners at the above mentioned firms.

i bring this point up, because you didnt say what you would like to do post law school in wisconsin.

if you are ok with working at a small practitioner or legal services or local gov job, go to wisc. your income will be low, but eventually become sustainable, and as im sure you are aware, wisc is not expensive place to live.

if you want a decent firm that pays you $$$, i would guess you need to finish in the top 10% at wisc (in my time, my family friends said top 10, and that is NOT top 10 percent). but in any event, to assume you can be top 10% or even 20 is retarded. i mean, based on my numbers and my personal belief, i figured i would be top 15% at GW. i was not. im sure very few law students go to law school thinking they'll finish at median.

that being said, wisconsin firms are not that keen on hiring outsiders either. your move boss (in theory), but i just needed to correct some of your assumptions so that you can make the right decision for yourself.

[yenom06]

The University of Wisconsin Law School is a terrible law school. You will be wise not to attend. You are making several assumptions about the school. First, you WILL need to finish in the Top 20% to get a job at the law firms you mentioned. However, that means you will need to be one of the top 50 students. Top 20% doesn't mean you will get the job. It'll mean you are likely to get an interview. However, this isn't NYU. So when Quarles goes to UW, they are interviewing 20 to 25 students. Will you make the cut? You have no work experience.

Additionally, you make a significant mistake. Your numbers will not get a SUBSTANTIAL scholarship at Wisconsin. The school is stingy with scholarships. In other words, it is hard to get scholarships. Especially scholarships that cover most of the tuition. Even if you paid in-state at $20,000 a year, Wisconsin is not a good choice. Cost of living is $12,000. So that's $36,000 a year times 3. $120,000 in debt at UW Law is not a good deal.

Only 60% of Wisconsin grads get jobs that require a LEGAL DEGREE. The number that get Big Law is even SMALLER. Madison isn't even cheap as the above poster stated. One bedrooms can start at $1,300. If you want a cheap apartment, you will be stuck living with trashy and loud undergrads. You would be a complete fool to attend the University of Wisconsin. You will be a fool not to retake the LSAT. Wisconsin is not a good school and it is only worth it for a small minority of students who land big law.

[Ron Don Volante]

There are some serious over statements in the post above me.

Is UW advisable if you're gunning for biglaw? Absolutely not. But it's an acceptable choice, for sure, in the right situation.

Also lol at COL for Madison at 12K. Wisconsin's cheap but that number is laughable.

[yenom06]

There are some serious over statements in the post above me.

Is UW advisable if you're gunning for biglaw? Absolutely not. But it's an acceptable choice, for sure, in the right situation.

Also lol at COL for Madison at 12K. Wisconsin's cheap but that number is laughable.

You are right. I meant to say cost of living is $24,000. Which makes the numbers for Wisconsin even more freighting. Wisconsin an acceptable choice? Would you say that to the 100 law students out of the 250 who don't have a job that requires a law degree? Also, at Wisconsin, if you don't get Big Law, your options are slim. Enjoy making $35-$65k a year. Wisconsin is so horrible even the career services staff doesn't stay at the school. The office is only 4 to 5 people and they have had new workers every single year since 2011. Pathetic.

[dood]

Madison isn't even cheap as the above poster stated. One bedrooms can start at $1,300.

i agree with most of wat you said (even though you said it like a twat), except for this sentence. WTF are you talking about? you do realize a similar apt in DC or NYC would be at least double, right?

i paid $450K for a ONE BEDROOM CONDO in DC. im sure you're aware what $450K can buy you in madison. how about a nice 3 bedroom in shorewood hills (i grew up there and imagine it hasn't gone to shit and is still desirable to live for families):
https://www.redfin.com/WI/Madison/5445- ... e/57574826

or move a little further out: https://www.redfin.com/WI/Madison/8821- ... e/57798366

[yenom06]

Madison isn't even cheap as the above poster stated. One bedrooms can start at $1,300.

i agree with most of wat you said (even though you said it like a twat), except for this sentence. WTF are you talking about? you do realize a similar apt in DC or NYC would be at least double, right?

i paid $450K for a ONE BEDROOM CONDO in DC. im sure you're aware what $450K can buy you in madison. how about a nice 3 bedroom in shorewood hills (i grew up there and imagine it hasn't gone to shit and is still desirable to live for families):
https://www.redfin.com/WI/Madison/5445- ... e/57574826

or move a little further out: https://www.redfin.com/WI/Madison/8821- ... e/57798366

WTF are YOU talking about? Madison is a town of not even 250,000, but yet has apartment rentals that would be found in a city like Chicago. Not to mention parking is another $100-150 a month. Dry cleaning is $7.50. $1,300 a month is certainly higher than a city of similar size. $1,300 ? Might as well live in Minneapolis. Please don't even come at me like that as everyone from the mayor to the apartment developers know that there is a lack of affordable housing in Madison!

[Ron Don Volante]

There are some serious over statements in the post above me.

Is UW advisable if you're gunning for biglaw? Absolutely not. But it's an acceptable choice, for sure, in the right situation.

Also lol at COL for Madison at 12K. Wisconsin's cheap but that number is laughable.

You are right. I meant to say cost of living is $24,000. Which makes the numbers for Wisconsin even more freighting. Wisconsin an acceptable choice? Would you say that to the 100 law students out of the 250 who don't have a job that requires a law degree? Also, at Wisconsin, if you don't get Big Law, your options are slim. Enjoy making $35-$65k a year. Wisconsin is so horrible even the career services staff doesn't stay at the school. The office is only 4 to 5 people and they have had new workers every single year since 2011. Pathetic.

Well aren't you just an asshole?

The vast majority of matriculants at UW are making a huge mistake - nobody is denying that. I said in the right situation.

Money is not everything for a lot of people. Many would be happier making 50K or less in Madison that market in NYC or DC. UW is not that stingy with scholarships; if you can get into a T14 you will get close to a full ride. Taking 50-60K in debt is a reasonable investment if you have low expectations and staying in Madison or Wisconsin generally is what is most important to you. If you have even a moderate interest in biglaw, you should go elsewhere.

[Ron Don Volante]

Madison isn't even cheap as the above poster stated. One bedrooms can start at $1,300.

i agree with most of wat you said (even though you said it like a twat), except for this sentence. WTF are you talking about? you do realize a similar apt in DC or NYC would be at least double, right?

i paid $450K for a ONE BEDROOM CONDO in DC. im sure you're aware what $450K can buy you in madison. how about a nice 3 bedroom in shorewood hills (i grew up there and imagine it hasn't gone to shit and is still desirable to live for families):
https://www.redfin.com/WI/Madison/5445- ... e/57574826

or move a little further out: https://www.redfin.com/WI/Madison/8821- ... e/57798366

WTF are YOU talking about? Madison is a town of not even 250,000, but yet has apartment rentals that would be found in a city like Chicago. Not to mention parking is another $100-150 a month. Dry cleaning is $7.50. $1,300 a month is certainly higher than a city of similar size. $1,300 ? Might as well live in Minneapolis. Please don't even come at me like that as everyone from the mayor to the apartment developers know that there is a lack of affordable housing in Madison!

God you are a fuckwad.

And Madison metro is over 500K pop.

[yenom06]

There are some serious over statements in the post above me.

Is UW advisable if you're gunning for biglaw? Absolutely not. But it's an acceptable choice, for sure, in the right situation.

Also lol at COL for Madison at 12K. Wisconsin's cheap but that number is laughable.

You are right. I meant to say cost of living is $24,000. Which makes the numbers for Wisconsin even more freighting. Wisconsin an acceptable choice? Would you say that to the 100 law students out of the 250 who don't have a job that requires a law degree? Also, at Wisconsin, if you don't get Big Law, your options are slim. Enjoy making $35-$65k a year. Wisconsin is so horrible even the career services staff doesn't stay at the school. The office is only 4 to 5 people and they have had new workers every single year since 2011. Pathetic.

Well aren't you just an asshole?

The vast majority of matriculants at UW are making a huge mistake - nobody is denying that. I said in the right situation.

Money is not everything for a lot of people. Many would be happier making 50K or less in Madison that market in NYC or DC. UW is not that stingy with scholarships; if you can get into a T14 you will get close to a full ride. Taking 50-60K in debt is a reasonable investment if you have low expectations and staying in Madison or Wisconsin generally is what is most important to you. If you have even a moderate interest in biglaw, you should go elsewhere.

Do you even go to UW? UW is stingy with full-rides. Even for top performing minority students they give schoalrships that cover only 80% of tuition. You will have $50-60k debt if you work during the school year and have roommates. Otherwise, the debt load will be higher. If you have a moderate interest in landing a LEGAL JOB, you should go elsewhere.

[Ron Don Volante]

sounds like you didn't do very well on the LSAT, in re scholarships

No, having a legit chance at biglaw was of some importance to me.

[Tiago Splitter]

What if hypothetically Wisconsin admitted just 158 students instead of the 250 they let in for class of 2013? Would that change anyone's tune?

[yenom06]

sounds like you didn't do very well on the LSAT, in re scholarships

No, having a legit chance at biglaw was of some importance to me.

You didn't even go there, but you are trying to tell me about the school. Oh. Also, I'm saying not going despite the fact that I had a scholarship. Perhaps that should tell the OP something.

[yenom06]

What if hypothetically Wisconsin admitted just 158 students instead of the 250 they let in for class of 2013? Would that change anyone's tune?

NO.

[Ron Don Volante]

What if hypothetically Wisconsin admitted just 158 students instead of the 250 they let in for class of 2013? Would that change anyone's tune?

Right, the numbers are going to get better if they hold their class size here going forward.

In summary: For people with modest career expectations who want to be in Wisconsin long-term and who get a nice scholarship, did not go KJD, and have some money saved up to cover COL, UW is an acceptable choice.

[sparty99]

What if hypothetically Wisconsin admitted just 158 students instead of the 250 they let in for class of 2013? Would that change anyone's tune?

Right, the numbers are going to get better if they hold their class size here going forward.

In summary: For people with modest career expectations who want to be in Wisconsin long-term and who get a nice scholarship, did not go KJD, and have some money saved up to cover COL, UW is an acceptable choice.

You have a lot of qualifiers on attending this school. Is it worth it for OP?

[Octavius]

I never said I would get a full ride. All I said was I will graduate with no debt, which is true regardless of scholarship amount. I am not gunning for big law. I can graduate with no debt in the state I want to work. Additionally, I won't have to take the WI bar. I understand that top 10% would be required for big law. If that happens, wonderful. If not, I'm fine with other options. I really appreciate those of you who offered constructive feedback/advice.

[Octavius]

Also, in regard to housing - I will be renting a house with friends, we each pay $450/month for our house. Yes, Madison is that cheap.

[prezidentv8]

COP DAT BAR PRIVILEGE BREH

[Octavius]

Not sure if that was sarcasm, but I appreciate the enthusiasm.

[Ramius]

Also, in regard to housing - I will be renting a house with friends, we each pay $450/month for our house. Yes, Madison is that cheap.

This is no disrespect, but law school is not the time to continue college adventures. You need to focus on a few, finite things: top grades, decide on a career, pursue said career, repeat.

I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but this statement strongly suggests that. Focus on setting up your future.

Cheap is great, but continuation of college can be poison for KJD types.

[prezidentv8]

Not sure if that was sarcasm, but I appreciate the enthusiasm.

twas actually my opinion. yeeeeeeee

[Ron Don Volante]

I have to agree, unfortunately. By law school, you've lived with your bros on Mifflin long enough. It's time to grow up, get a bike, and move to Willy.

[Octavius]

I understand where you're coming from, but my "bros" will be working full-time/in med school. West side of Madison too, I've never lived downtown. And I love my bike

[Ron Don Volante]

Never lived downtown? That's depressing (and it explains why your rent is so low). Well, fuck, still time to rectify that huge mistake for LS. Take out some loans and get in that new fucker with the heated rooftop pool on Henry and Langdon.