CUNY law school Forum

[Moneytrees]

To say that there is no better school than CUNY for pi is insane. You go to law school work as an attorney. CUNY only places 50% of its grads into jobs. Resident tuition is cheap and it hasn't raised tuition costs, which are positives. But let's steer clear from gross exaggerations that have no basis in reality.

[Carter1901]

. I have zero interest in anything else, and no other school in the country focuses on PI like CUNY. Period.

lol.

CUNY was a good LSAT testing center, i'll give you that.

[PattyCake]

inb4 another snarky non-response

That wasn't snarky. You were being rude and I ignored you.

[03152016]

inb4 another snarky non-response

That wasn't snarky. You were being rude and I ignored you.

yes, so rude to tell people to avoid going to a school where only half of the graduates can get jobs
where are my manners

[Ramius]

inb4 another snarky non-response

That wasn't snarky. You were being rude and I ignored you.

You're an objectively bad poster trying to justify your own decision. Don't wish that on others.

CUNY if you already live in the area and you're just trying to get your brother-in-law off on some traffic tickets? Probably defensible on a full ride.

Anytime else? Check your goals and process, because I doubt they are at all compatible.

[PattyCake]

inb4 another snarky non-response

That wasn't snarky. You were being rude and I ignored you.

You're an objectively bad poster trying to justify your own decision. Don't wish that on others.

CUNY if you already live in the area and you're just trying to get your brother-in-law off on some traffic tickets? Probably defensible on a full ride.

Anytime else? Check your goals and process, because I doubt they are at all compatible.

Not justifying anything, I'm very happy with my choice. CUNY's a great place and appeals to a certain kind of student. OP asked about the school and I offered to answer questions about it.

The legal job market is just a job market, and law school is like any other grad school. Didn't used to be, but it is now. Schools don't get people jobs, people get themselves jobs. And CUNY puts a higher percentage of its grads into PI practice than any other school - even fancy-schmancy TLS acknowledges that. Plan well, get realistically renewable scholarships, and then go wherever you'll be happy and enjoy law school. If you know what to expect you'll weather the uncertainty - in the long run that time is a drop in the bucket.

[Ramius]

inb4 another snarky non-response

That wasn't snarky. You were being rude and I ignored you.

You're an objectively bad poster trying to justify your own decision. Don't wish that on others.

CUNY if you already live in the area and you're just trying to get your brother-in-law off on some traffic tickets? Probably defensible on a full ride.

Anytime else? Check your goals and process, because I doubt they are at all compatible.

Not justifying anything, I'm very happy with my choice. CUNY's a great place and appeals to a certain kind of student. OP asked about the school and I offered to answer questions about it.

The legal job market is just a job market, and law school is like any other grad school. Didn't used to be, but it is now. Schools don't get people jobs, people get themselves jobs. And CUNY puts a higher percentage of its grads into PI practice than any other school - even fancy-schmancy TLS acknowledges that. Plan well, get realistically renewable scholarships, and then go wherever you'll be happy and enjoy law school. If you know what to expect you'll weather the uncertainty - in the long run that time is a drop in the bucket.

I actually agree with you that people make their own bed and live in it, but this forum is better than that. People that search CUNY as an option will get this thread in google, regardless of their level of research beyond what google tells them. With that, it is necessary for people to understand that CUNY is an unequivocally bad decision for the majority of people choosing to attend it. Being that you go there, I'm sure you agree that you have classmates that have completely unrealistic expectations from their CUNY PI degree.

I went to CUNY...bring on the ICC!

See how saying CUNY is "PI focused" is a problem?

PD is one thing, international human rights is quite another.

[03152016]

and let's not forget that a huge chunk of those jobs (approaching half i think?) aren't even jd-required
so saying "PI practice" is way misleading

and even if the measure was lawyer jobs + non-lawyer jobs (which i don't think is a useful number), they still wouldn't win

[Ramius]

and let's not forget that a huge chunk of those jobs (approaching half i think?) aren't even jd-required
so saying "PI practice" is way misleading

and even if the measure was lawyer jobs + non-lawyer jobs (which i don't think is a useful number), they still wouldn't win

I'm trying to be nice, but this HAS to make people realize how bad CUNY is for the purported goal of CUNY's education.

Uncle Tony still needs to get out of those parking tickets though!

[star fox]

If you want PI and have a NY state of mind, go to NYU. If you don't want or wont be able then go save the world without becoming a lawyer.

[PattyCake]

I actually agree with you that people make their own bed and live in it, but this forum is better than that. People that search CUNY as an option will get this thread in google, regardless of their level of research beyond what google tells them. With that, it is necessary for people to understand that CUNY is an unequivocally bad decision for the majority of people choosing to attend it. Being that you go there, I'm sure you agree that you have classmates that have completely unrealistic expectations from their CUNY PI degree.

I went to CUNY...bring on the ICC!

See how saying CUNY is "PI focused" is a problem?

PD is one thing, international human rights is quite another.[/quote]

I absolutely do agree with that, though you could probably say the same about plenty of other schools. We have a lot of people with stars in their eyes, for sure. Maybe even half, which would explain the job numbers!

Something else to consider, though, is that CUNY extends it's social justice perspective to the admissions process. They focus on giving opportunities to students who many schools wouldn't give a chance to. It's risky for attrition rates, but it's a purposeful choice. I doubt every one of those students succeeds wildly in school, though many certainly do. It's also possible that low tuition leads a few slack-prone students to justify not working as hard as they would if it was more expensive, which will obviously catch up to them when they look for jobs.

But the majority of students who I interact with have a certain kind of goal that maybe isn't what other schools limit their idea of PI to. I wouldn't call it a lack of ambition, just a different kind of ambition. Like I said, CUNY attracts a certain kind of person.

What you get out is what you put in. If your goals are realistic, CUNY has excellent relationships with public defender and DA offices in every borough, and we get a lot of those jobs. We also have a great placement record with housing, family, and juvenile law. Nonprofits love having us as interns (btw we have a great internship fair), and a lot of our grads get job offers from those internships.

So as far as your observation goes, yes. I'd say an unfortunate downside of CUNY is that they encourage some students to take an unrealistic view of practice areas with notoriously poor employment prospects. But for the rest of us, it's a school with the right kind of connections at a fraction of the cost of other schools, especially if you get a scholarship (btw every fee and all of your books are included, so the $14K or whatever it is covers everything).

[Ramius]

I actually agree with you that people make their own bed and live in it, but this forum is better than that. People that search CUNY as an option will get this thread in google, regardless of their level of research beyond what google tells them. With that, it is necessary for people to understand that CUNY is an unequivocally bad decision for the majority of people choosing to attend it. Being that you go there, I'm sure you agree that you have classmates that have completely unrealistic expectations from their CUNY PI degree.

I went to CUNY...bring on the ICC!

See how saying CUNY is "PI focused" is a problem?

PD is one thing, international human rights is quite another.

I absolutely do agree with that, though you could probably say the same about plenty of other schools. We have a lot of people with stars in their eyes, for sure. Maybe even half, which would explain the job numbers!

Something else to consider, though, is that CUNY extends it's social justice perspective to the admissions process. They focus on giving opportunities to students who many schools wouldn't give a chance to. It's risky for attrition rates, but it's a purposeful choice. I doubt every one of those students succeeds wildly in school, though many certainly do. It's also possible that low tuition leads a few slack-prone students to justify not working as hard as they would if it was more expensive, which will obviously catch up to them when they look for jobs.

But the majority of students who I interact with have a certain kind of goal that maybe isn't what other schools limit their idea of PI to. I wouldn't call it a lack of ambition, just a different kind of ambition. Like I said, CUNY attracts a certain kind of person.

What you get out is what you put in. If your goals are realistic, CUNY has excellent relationships with public defender and DA offices in every borough, and we get a lot of those jobs. We also have a great placement record with housing, family, and juvenile law. Nonprofits love having us as interns (btw we have a great internship fair), and a lot of our grads get job offers from those internships.

So as far as your observation goes, yes. I'd say an unfortunate downside of CUNY is that they encourage some students to take an unrealistic view of practice areas with notoriously poor employment prospects. But for the rest of us, it's a school with the right kind of connections at a fraction of the cost of other schools, especially if you get a scholarship (btw every fee and all of your books are included, so the $14K or whatever it is covers everything).[/quote]

ADCOMM or PAID FOR IT to seem REASONABLE.

[mann124]

first off - please dont quote

i was strongly considering attending CUNY Law this year b/c of my work experience in a narrow public interest field and b/c ny is my hometown and after being abroad for a bit,i thought living in astoria was going to be the 'shit' - also someone I know well, went there and 'loved it'

but then i realised that one of the reasons i was leaving my work behind was because 1 one 1 legal aid work, is frankly - in my experience - pretty awful. I used to interview 30+ clients a day, 3 days a week, go to court with detained refugees, and then did pro bono appeals. The lack of good lawyers and competent counsellors/case managers in the field went far up and down the totem pole. And in terms of mobility, the glass ceilings are real, especially if you don't attend a competitively ranked law school and/or lack a terminal degree - unless doing 1 on 1 work is your thing, then whatever

moreover my friend graduated having done pretty well there, law review, moot court, blah blah blah, and ended up spending a whole year and a half on a job search until mrs. girlfriends mom put in a few calls to old college flames -lol

i ended up living in astoria for a bit last year realised that its gentrified as fuck and as a result, any place that i would consider moving into would cost me an arm and a leg - great bars, restaurants and cafes though, but the school itself is in Long Island City, pretty close to Manhattan, but there's not way in hell you should live there while attending CUNY or even in manhattan, you'll essentially be burning your money away considering how much time you'll actually spend there. the only other option is to live deeper in queens, which is frankly, as a queens native, the worst decision someone could make if they're not from here, its got 3 million people but its just not that kind of city

oh, back to my buddy, he's making <60k this year, putting in 12 hour work days in a 4 person office in brooklyn doing nothing related to public interest law

also i recommend you watch the CUNY Law graduation video on youtube; they've telecasted and recorded all the law school graduations from the past few years, i did a visit to the school, and i think the video captures some of its ethos, which in the end, i decided wasn't for me, among other things

[PattyCake]

ADCOMM or PAID FOR IT to seem REASONABLE.[/quote]

No and no.

[03152016]

I absolutely do agree with that, though you could probably say the same about plenty of other schools. We have a lot of people with stars in their eyes, for sure. Maybe even half, which would explain the job numbers!

the job numbers are explained by cuny's inability to place graduates into jd-required jobs
the nyc market may be large, but it is highly targeted
students from harvard, yale, columbia, nyu, and other top schools target nyc pi
as well as many other schools both in and out-of-state
no one denies cuny's pi connection
but while you may have some heartening anecdotes to share, you can't deny the data
most people who attend cuny do NOT find gainful jd-required employment within a reasonable timeframe after graduation
cuny is NOT in the same universe as actual pi schools like nyu
cuny IS widely considered one of the worst law schools in the country, and its administration plays up pi not bc of actual institutional support, but bc the very limited placement power it does have is through its pi reputation
great lraps, pi fellowships, summer funding, pi job fairs, elite pi placement, and pi jd-required jobs are actual measurements of institutional support and connections
not "my profs talk a lot about pi in class"

Something else to consider, though, is that CUNY extends it's social justice perspective to the admissions process. They focus on giving opportunities to students who many schools wouldn't give a chance to. It's risky for attrition rates, but it's a purposeful choice. I doubt every one of those students succeeds wildly in school, though many certainly do. It's also possible that low tuition leads a few slack-prone students to justify not working as hard as they would if it was more expensive, which will obviously catch up to them when they look for jobs.

cuny likes to pretend they're giving opportunities to students who wouldn't get a chance in other schools
but there is nothing in cuny's admissions data that suggests their admissions process is different from any other school
if you have evidence to the contrary, post it
bad schools like to blame their students for being unemployed
this is a particularly lazy excuse and conveniently distances the school from the horrifying outcomes its students face
this school has limited placement power and would even if every incoming student had stellar numbers for a year

But the majority of students who I interact with have a certain kind of goal that maybe isn't what other schools limit their idea of PI to. I wouldn't call it a lack of ambition, just a different kind of ambition. Like I said, CUNY attracts a certain kind of person.

if you're suggesting that people go to cuny law to pursue jobs that don't require a law degree (i don't know what else you could be referring to)
then those students shouldn't go to law school in the first place
one of my friends who graduated from cuny is in one of these 'jd advantage' jobs
which is funny, because it's a job she had before law school and worked at all throughout law school
that's the true nature of the 'jd advantage' label

What you get out is what you put in. If your goals are realistic, CUNY has excellent relationships with public defender and DA offices in every borough, and we get a lot of those jobs. We also have a great placement record with housing, family, and juvenile law. Nonprofits love having us as interns (btw we have a great internship fair), and a lot of our grads get job offers from those internships.

you can tell a lot about cuny's pi placement by the fact that on its career services page it lists access to nyu's job fair as a selling point
there are some jobs, like pd and legal aid, where many cuny people end up
but we're still talking about a fraction of the class
the majority of cuny graduates do not get ft/lt/jd positions in a reasonable timeframe after graduation, period
you can spin that any way you want; oh but the people who do find work get jobs in legal aid!
but we're talking a fraction of the class, a couple dozen people maybe

So as far as your observation goes, yes. I'd say an unfortunate downside of CUNY is that they encourage some students to take an unrealistic view of practice areas with notoriously poor employment prospects. But for the rest of us, it's a school with the right kind of connections at a fraction of the cost of other schools, especially if you get a scholarship (btw every fee and all of your books are included, so the $14K or whatever it is covers everything).

it's the right school for almost nobody
the underemployment rate is one of the highest in the country
the employment rate is among the lowest
and the pi connection, while there, is way overhyped and largely marketing fluff

it's late and i'm jotting this out quickly
but i have much more to say about cuny, much more to share about this "law school"
look for my follow ups in the next few days

[Ramius]

I absolutely do agree with that, though you could probably say the same about plenty of other schools. We have a lot of people with stars in their eyes, for sure. Maybe even half, which would explain the job numbers!

the job numbers are explained by cuny's inability to place graduates into jd-required jobs
the nyc market may be large, but it is highly targeted
students from harvard, yale, columbia, nyu, and other top schools target nyc pi
as well as many other schools both in and out-of-state
no one denies cuny's pi connection
but while you may have some heartening anecdotes to share, you can't deny the data
most people who attend cuny do NOT find gainful jd-required employment within a reasonable timeframe after graduation
cuny is NOT in the same universe as actual pi schools like nyu
cuny IS widely considered one of the worst law schools in the country, and its administration plays up pi not bc of actual institutional support, but bc the very limited placement power it does have is through its pi reputation
great lraps, pi fellowships, summer funding, pi job fairs, elite pi placement, and pi jd-required jobs are actual measurements of institutional support and connections
not "my profs talk a lot about pi in class"

Something else to consider, though, is that CUNY extends it's social justice perspective to the admissions process. They focus on giving opportunities to students who many schools wouldn't give a chance to. It's risky for attrition rates, but it's a purposeful choice. I doubt every one of those students succeeds wildly in school, though many certainly do. It's also possible that low tuition leads a few slack-prone students to justify not working as hard as they would if it was more expensive, which will obviously catch up to them when they look for jobs.

cuny likes to pretend they're giving opportunities to students who wouldn't get a chance in other schools
but there is nothing in cuny's admissions data that suggests their admissions process is different from any other school
if you have evidence to the contrary, post it
bad schools like to blame their students for being unemployed
this is a particularly lazy excuse and conveniently distances the school from the horrifying outcomes its students face
this school has limited placement power and would even if every incoming student had stellar numbers for a year

But the majority of students who I interact with have a certain kind of goal that maybe isn't what other schools limit their idea of PI to. I wouldn't call it a lack of ambition, just a different kind of ambition. Like I said, CUNY attracts a certain kind of person.

if you're suggesting that people go to cuny law to pursue jobs that don't require a law degree (i don't know what else you could be referring to)
then those students shouldn't go to law school in the first place
one of my friends who graduated from cuny is in one of these 'jd advantage' jobs
which is funny, because it's a job she had before law school and worked at all throughout law school
that's the true nature of the 'jd advantage' label

What you get out is what you put in. If your goals are realistic, CUNY has excellent relationships with public defender and DA offices in every borough, and we get a lot of those jobs. We also have a great placement record with housing, family, and juvenile law. Nonprofits love having us as interns (btw we have a great internship fair), and a lot of our grads get job offers from those internships.

you can tell a lot about cuny's pi placement by the fact that on its career services page it lists access to nyu's job fair as a selling point
there are some jobs, like pd and legal aid, where many cuny people end up
but we're still talking about a fraction of the class
the majority of cuny graduates do not get ft/lt/jd positions in a reasonable timeframe after graduation, period
you can spin that any way you want; oh but the people who do find work get jobs in legal aid!
but we're talking a fraction of the class, a couple dozen people maybe

So as far as your observation goes, yes. I'd say an unfortunate downside of CUNY is that they encourage some students to take an unrealistic view of practice areas with notoriously poor employment prospects. But for the rest of us, it's a school with the right kind of connections at a fraction of the cost of other schools, especially if you get a scholarship (btw every fee and all of your books are included, so the $14K or whatever it is covers everything).

it's the right school for almost nobody
the underemployment rate is one of the highest in the country
the employment rate is among the lowest
and the pi connection, while there, is way overhyped and largely marketing fluff

it's late and i'm jotting this out quickly
but i have much more to say about cuny, much more to share about this "law school"
look for my follow ups in the next few days

[McAvoy]

I absolutely do agree with that, though you could probably say the same about plenty of other schools. We have a lot of people with stars in their eyes, for sure. Maybe even half, which would explain the job numbers!

the job numbers are explained by cuny's inability to place graduates into jd-required jobs
the nyc market may be large, but it is highly targeted
students from harvard, yale, columbia, nyu, and other top schools target nyc pi
as well as many other schools both in and out-of-state
no one denies cuny's pi connection
but while you may have some heartening anecdotes to share, you can't deny the data
most people who attend cuny do NOT find gainful jd-required employment within a reasonable timeframe after graduation
cuny is NOT in the same universe as actual pi schools like nyu
cuny IS widely considered one of the worst law schools in the country, and its administration plays up pi not bc of actual institutional support, but bc the very limited placement power it does have is through its pi reputation
great lraps, pi fellowships, summer funding, pi job fairs, elite pi placement, and pi jd-required jobs are actual measurements of institutional support and connections
not "my profs talk a lot about pi in class"

Something else to consider, though, is that CUNY extends it's social justice perspective to the admissions process. They focus on giving opportunities to students who many schools wouldn't give a chance to. It's risky for attrition rates, but it's a purposeful choice. I doubt every one of those students succeeds wildly in school, though many certainly do. It's also possible that low tuition leads a few slack-prone students to justify not working as hard as they would if it was more expensive, which will obviously catch up to them when they look for jobs.

cuny likes to pretend they're giving opportunities to students who wouldn't get a chance in other schools
but there is nothing in cuny's admissions data that suggests their admissions process is different from any other school
if you have evidence to the contrary, post it
bad schools like to blame their students for being unemployed
this is a particularly lazy excuse and conveniently distances the school from the horrifying outcomes its students face
this school has limited placement power and would even if every incoming student had stellar numbers for a year

But the majority of students who I interact with have a certain kind of goal that maybe isn't what other schools limit their idea of PI to. I wouldn't call it a lack of ambition, just a different kind of ambition. Like I said, CUNY attracts a certain kind of person.

if you're suggesting that people go to cuny law to pursue jobs that don't require a law degree (i don't know what else you could be referring to)
then those students shouldn't go to law school in the first place
one of my friends who graduated from cuny is in one of these 'jd advantage' jobs
which is funny, because it's a job she had before law school and worked at all throughout law school
that's the true nature of the 'jd advantage' label

What you get out is what you put in. If your goals are realistic, CUNY has excellent relationships with public defender and DA offices in every borough, and we get a lot of those jobs. We also have a great placement record with housing, family, and juvenile law. Nonprofits love having us as interns (btw we have a great internship fair), and a lot of our grads get job offers from those internships.

you can tell a lot about cuny's pi placement by the fact that on its career services page it lists access to nyu's job fair as a selling point
there are some jobs, like pd and legal aid, where many cuny people end up
but we're still talking about a fraction of the class
the majority of cuny graduates do not get ft/lt/jd positions in a reasonable timeframe after graduation, period
you can spin that any way you want; oh but the people who do find work get jobs in legal aid!
but we're talking a fraction of the class, a couple dozen people maybe

So as far as your observation goes, yes. I'd say an unfortunate downside of CUNY is that they encourage some students to take an unrealistic view of practice areas with notoriously poor employment prospects. But for the rest of us, it's a school with the right kind of connections at a fraction of the cost of other schools, especially if you get a scholarship (btw every fee and all of your books are included, so the $14K or whatever it is covers everything).

it's the right school for almost nobody
the underemployment rate is one of the highest in the country
the employment rate is among the lowest
and the pi connection, while there, is way overhyped and largely marketing fluff

it's late and i'm jotting this out quickly
but i have much more to say about cuny, much more to share about this "law school"
look for my follow ups in the next few days

can we get a tldr burt?

[03152016]

cuny = stoopid

[McAvoy]

I absolutely do agree with that, though you could probably say the same about plenty of other schools. We have a lot of people with stars in their eyes, for sure. Maybe even half, which would explain the job numbers!

the job numbers are explained by cuny's inability to place graduates into jd-required jobs
the nyc market may be large, but it is highly targeted
students from harvard, yale, columbia, nyu, and other top schools target nyc pi
as well as many other schools both in and out-of-state
no one denies cuny's pi connection
but while you may have some heartening anecdotes to share, you can't deny the data
most people who attend cuny do NOT find gainful jd-required employment within a reasonable timeframe after graduation
cuny is NOT in the same universe as actual pi schools like nyu
cuny IS widely considered one of the worst law schools in the country, and its administration plays up pi not bc of actual institutional support, but bc the very limited placement power it does have is through its pi reputation
great lraps, pi fellowships, summer funding, pi job fairs, elite pi placement, and pi jd-required jobs are actual measurements of institutional support and connections
not "my profs talk a lot about pi in class"

Something else to consider, though, is that CUNY extends it's social justice perspective to the admissions process. They focus on giving opportunities to students who many schools wouldn't give a chance to. It's risky for attrition rates, but it's a purposeful choice. I doubt every one of those students succeeds wildly in school, though many certainly do. It's also possible that low tuition leads a few slack-prone students to justify not working as hard as they would if it was more expensive, which will obviously catch up to them when they look for jobs.

cuny likes to pretend they're giving opportunities to students who wouldn't get a chance in other schools
but there is nothing in cuny's admissions data that suggests their admissions process is different from any other school
if you have evidence to the contrary, post it
bad schools like to blame their students for being unemployed
this is a particularly lazy excuse and conveniently distances the school from the horrifying outcomes its students face
this school has limited placement power and would even if every incoming student had stellar numbers for a year

But the majority of students who I interact with have a certain kind of goal that maybe isn't what other schools limit their idea of PI to. I wouldn't call it a lack of ambition, just a different kind of ambition. Like I said, CUNY attracts a certain kind of person.

if you're suggesting that people go to cuny law to pursue jobs that don't require a law degree (i don't know what else you could be referring to)
then those students shouldn't go to law school in the first place
one of my friends who graduated from cuny is in one of these 'jd advantage' jobs
which is funny, because it's a job she had before law school and worked at all throughout law school
that's the true nature of the 'jd advantage' label

What you get out is what you put in. If your goals are realistic, CUNY has excellent relationships with public defender and DA offices in every borough, and we get a lot of those jobs. We also have a great placement record with housing, family, and juvenile law. Nonprofits love having us as interns (btw we have a great internship fair), and a lot of our grads get job offers from those internships.

you can tell a lot about cuny's pi placement by the fact that on its career services page it lists access to nyu's job fair as a selling point
there are some jobs, like pd and legal aid, where many cuny people end up
but we're still talking about a fraction of the class
the majority of cuny graduates do not get ft/lt/jd positions in a reasonable timeframe after graduation, period
you can spin that any way you want; oh but the people who do find work get jobs in legal aid!
but we're talking a fraction of the class, a couple dozen people maybe

So as far as your observation goes, yes. I'd say an unfortunate downside of CUNY is that they encourage some students to take an unrealistic view of practice areas with notoriously poor employment prospects. But for the rest of us, it's a school with the right kind of connections at a fraction of the cost of other schools, especially if you get a scholarship (btw every fee and all of your books are included, so the $14K or whatever it is covers everything).

it's the right school for almost nobody
the underemployment rate is one of the highest in the country
the employment rate is among the lowest
and the pi connection, while there, is way overhyped and largely marketing fluff

it's late and i'm jotting this out quickly
but i have much more to say about cuny, much more to share about this "law school"
look for my follow ups in the next few days

guyonpodiumthing.gif

Updated gif to better reflect the post's coolness

[Jaydee]

I'm considering CUNY, even though my grades/LSAT can get me in a higher ranked school.
I'm choosing CUNY because of their criminal law clinic. I'm 41, I retire from the NYPD next year, my home is paid, I live in Queens, and I intend to go solo right out of law school.
Aside from criminal law I might also do divorces. These are the only 2 areas of law that I want to practice.

[AReasonableMan]

The fact that more CUNY grads do public service doesn't make it more successful in this area. You have to consider that most jobs that pay enough to live in Manhattan are cut off to CUNY students. This sub-fifty percent figure fails to account for the free jobs many students take after passing the bar. These jobs are also highly competitive.

CUNY is much cheaper and 42k for law school is really a fair price when you consider how much the expenses are. You can get full rides to much better schools, but CUNY is less zero sum as 50k/yr schools essentially have kids with lower stats pay for the kids with higher stats that they are competing against.

I think there is a need for a school like CUNY, but for most it's a bad choice. You should not view it as a means to employment and a career. That's most likely not going to happen. You may luck out and get a 300/week job or volunteer work. However, you should really view CUNY as a means to pursue a hobby, like a more prestigious version of knitting class. If your background affords you the chance to invest 100k and 3 earning years in a hobby then it's a good choice. But if you're tired of waiting tables and hoping for a change, you should view it as a retirement home and plan accordingly.

I don't blame students with poor job prospects out of college for going to piss poor law schools. When you're young and romantic you pride your individualism like your teachers all trained you to. Stats don't define individuals, because every person is unique, and we're all capable of changing the world if we give our best efforts. The individualistic propaganda our society preached to our parents during the Cold War is why impressionable dim-witted students shoot themselves in the foot, as well as titles being a big part of social status. The ease of getting a graduate loan only amplifies it. Even pre-2008, it was not so easy to get a small business loan. You needed some evidence you would make money, a business plan, etc. I don't understand why it's so hard to get 20k to improve your convenience store with a deli counter, but so easy to get 200k for a 5 percent chance of repayment.

[BigZuck]

I'm considering CUNY, even though my grades/LSAT can get me in a higher ranked school.
I'm choosing CUNY because of their criminal law clinic. I'm 41, I retire from the NYPD next year, my home is paid, I live in Queens, and I intend to go solo right out of law school.
Aside from criminal law I might also do divorces. These are the only 2 areas of law that I want to practice.

I actually don't mind this school that much, at least not as much as most other people ITT. New York is such a huge city, seems like the kind of place (maybe the only city in this country) that could use a school like this. It seems like an ok place for someone like Jaydee here. Although, I admit that is probably a small minority of people who attend, most (perhaps including these types) aren't that realistic about their goals, and I might have just been sold by marketing tactics. I dunno.

Patty- I am curious why you keep talking about grades. Why would those matter for someone with modest PI goals?

[AReasonableMan]

I'm considering CUNY, even though my grades/LSAT can get me in a higher ranked school.
I'm choosing CUNY because of their criminal law clinic. I'm 41, I retire from the NYPD next year, my home is paid, I live in Queens, and I intend to go solo right out of law school.
Aside from criminal law I might also do divorces. These are the only 2 areas of law that I want to practice.

I actually don't mind this school that much, at least not as much as most other people ITT. New York is such a huge city, seems like the kind of place (maybe the only city in this country) that could use a school like this. It seems like an ok place for someone like Jaydee here. Although, I admit that is probably a small minority of people who attend, most (perhaps including these types) aren't that realistic about their goals, and I might have just been sold by marketing tactics. I dunno.

Patty- I am curious why you keep talking about grades. Why would those matter for someone with modest PI goals?

The issue is the cost of living. If it's only 42k. If it's just earning the degree and you could work to support yourself then I agree. Many people could only show up for finals, and pull respectable grades. If you're using this as a career launching point then it's bad.

[Jaydee]

I am one of a small number of people who would be a good fit for CUNY law--I think. Even the OP should give this more thought. You think you want to do PI forever; what if your plans change? What if you start a family and need more $? With a higher-ranked JD you can still to PI and transition out of it later if your goals change (you hate the people, you need more $, you want to work for the feds...)
Me? I won't be practicing until I'm 46-47; this is my change of plans. If things don't work out I can parlay my prior career into a director of security gig at some fancy hotel (they pay $80-100K, and I've been offered these type of jobs in the past couple of months).
Always have a back-up.

[Rigo]

If things don't work out I can parlay my prior career into a director of security gig at some fancy hotel (they pay $80-100K, and I've been offered these type of jobs in the past couple of months).
Always have a back-up.

Your backup > CUNY Law