Academic Dishonesty (any input appreciated) Forum

[Elston Gunn]

I don't know how seriously law schools view UG cheating and I couldn't find an answer from a quick forum search. A huge problem is that your story will always sound absurd, and I'm not sure if there's a good way to write this in an addendum. There's a huge difference between "I copied a sentence from my notes without knowing it was actually verbatim from the book" (aka pulling a Stephen Ambrose) and "The professor said we could use calculators and I thought that meant I could have notes in them." Like I said, they'll think you're either a moron or a scheming weasel.

For that reason, it's so important to put yourself in a position where you needn't disclose this. If you don't enter the conduct process, you are arguably safe from having to disclose.

It doesn't sound absurd to me. Lots of people don't read the instructions on exams.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I don't know how seriously law schools view UG cheating and I couldn't find an answer from a quick forum search. A huge problem is that your story will always sound absurd, and I'm not sure if there's a good way to write this in an addendum. There's a huge difference between "I copied a sentence from my notes without knowing it was actually verbatim from the book" (aka pulling a Stephen Ambrose) and "The professor said we could use calculators and I thought that meant I could have notes in them." Like I said, they'll think you're either a moron or a scheming weasel.

For that reason, it's so important to put yourself in a position where you needn't disclose this. If you don't enter the conduct process, you are arguably safe from having to disclose.

It doesn't sound absurd to me. Lots of people don't read the instructions on exams.

But because lots of people do it doesn't make it any less dumb.

[Elston Gunn]

I don't know how seriously law schools view UG cheating and I couldn't find an answer from a quick forum search. A huge problem is that your story will always sound absurd, and I'm not sure if there's a good way to write this in an addendum. There's a huge difference between "I copied a sentence from my notes without knowing it was actually verbatim from the book" (aka pulling a Stephen Ambrose) and "The professor said we could use calculators and I thought that meant I could have notes in them." Like I said, they'll think you're either a moron or a scheming weasel.

For that reason, it's so important to put yourself in a position where you needn't disclose this. If you don't enter the conduct process, you are arguably safe from having to disclose.

It doesn't sound absurd to me. Lots of people don't read the instructions on exams.

But because lots of people do it doesn't make it any less dumb.

Not commenting on whether or not it was dumb (clearly was). Several people said the story sounded unbelievable (i.e. it sounded like he was lying or at least any adcomm would). It sounds plenty believable to me.

[A. Nony Mouse]

It doesn't sound absurd to me. Lots of people don't read the instructions on exams.

But because lots of people do it doesn't make it any less dumb.

Not commenting on whether or not it was dumb (clearly was). Several people said the story sounded unbelievable (i.e. it sounded like he was lying or at least any adcomm would). It sounds plenty believable to me.

True. I guess I meant using that as an excuse sounds absurd/unbelievable, even if plenty of people do it.

[Matth0011]

As an engineer with an academic transgression on their record, just keep being honest. This is something that you are worried about and you will probably laugh about this five years later. I had a similar situation with my undergrad, i.e., had a warning placed in my file that disappears when you graduate in addition to failing the course. In my law school applications, I openly described the scenario and tried to get any paperwork from my undergraduate institution (fun fact-there is no paperwork even after checking with every office after graduation). The important thing is plan to give the school the same information that you will give your bar applications. There could be serious ramifications if the bar or school finds out via another source and you were not upfront about the situations.

For your situation, I would probably just work it out with the professor. The school probably has an appeal process that will let you go to a student honor board and so on. Other students don't quite get the concept of an engineering final. When you are worried about utilizing several formulas with crazy math to find the correct answer, the last thing you worry about is memorizing the formulas. Most of my engineering profs understood that and either (1) supplied the formulas or (2) allowed you to bring in one notes page with the formulas. Since the other students or faculty will not understand this, I would tell you to work it out with the professor. You also cannot rely on the excuse that all the other students were doing it.

From my experience, this did not impact my admissions process into law school. I do not have any experience with graduate school, but I assume they equally will not weight your scenario into the admission process. When you actually do research for the state bar's disciplinary proceedings, you will find that your story is too tame to even be considered a factor. At the end of the day, its a life lesson to read the rules and don't do it again.

[HRomanus]

I would ask for an academic integrity hearing. I bet your school uses the word knowingly before it says uses unauthorized notes for purposes of exams. The fact that you left the calc turned on when you used the bathroom (when the proctor took the pic) is pretty compelling evidence you didn't knowingly violate the code. In crim law you will learn that almost any crime that has severe consequences requires the act (using notes) plus a guilty mind. Since cheating is dealt with so seriously at college and they model their codes of conduct after state penal codes, I would hire the lawyer and argue that it wasn't knowingly. The Emory question is an aberration. Many top law schools only ask if you were found guilty not merely accused correctly or wrongly.

Please don't listen to this. When you enter the college conduct process, you are not entering the legal system. College conduct processes are designed to not be similar to legal systems. If you're at a private school, you're largely at the mercy of the college. Moreover, your case will be decided based on the preponderance of the evidence (ie more likely than not), making your story a very precarious defense. In short, you will not prevail if you enter the conduct process.

Working with the professor is 100% the best choice. Even if you disclose, you can state that you fully cooperated with the professor. It shows more penitence than taking it to the conduct process and lends credence to your *mistaken* guilt.

[banjo]

I would ask for an academic integrity hearing. I bet your school uses the word knowingly before it says uses unauthorized notes for purposes of exams. The fact that you left the calc turned on when you used the bathroom (when the proctor took the pic) is pretty compelling evidence you didn't knowingly violate the code. In crim law you will learn that almost any crime that has severe consequences requires the act (using notes) plus a guilty mind. Since cheating is dealt with so seriously at college and they model their codes of conduct after state penal codes, I would hire the lawyer and argue that it wasn't knowingly. The Emory question is an aberration. Many top law schools only ask if you were found guilty not merely accused correctly or wrongly.

Please don't listen to this. When you enter the college conduct process, you are not entering the legal system. College conduct processes are designed to not be similar to legal systems. If you're at a private school, you're largely at the mercy of the college. Moreover, your case will be decided based on the preponderance of the evidence (ie more likely than not), making your story a very precarious defense. In short, you will not prevail if you enter the conduct process.

Working with the professor is 100% the best choice. Even if you disclose, you can state that you fully cooperated with the professor. It shows more penitence than taking it to the conduct process and lends credence to your *mistaken* guilt.

+1.

[WhiteyCakes]

I would ask for an academic integrity hearing. I bet your school uses the word knowingly before it says uses unauthorized notes for purposes of exams. The fact that you left the calc turned on when you used the bathroom (when the proctor took the pic) is pretty compelling evidence you didn't knowingly violate the code. In crim law you will learn that almost any crime that has severe consequences requires the act (using notes) plus a guilty mind. Since cheating is dealt with so seriously at college and they model their codes of conduct after state penal codes, I would hire the lawyer and argue that it wasn't knowingly. The Emory question is an aberration. Many top law schools only ask if you were found guilty not merely accused correctly or wrongly.

Please don't listen to this. When you enter the college conduct process, you are not entering the legal system. College conduct processes are designed to not be similar to legal systems. If you're at a private school, you're largely at the mercy of the college. Moreover, your case will be decided based on the preponderance of the evidence (ie more likely than not), making your story a very precarious defense. In short, you will not prevail if you enter the conduct process.

Working with the professor is 100% the best choice. Even if you disclose, you can state that you fully cooperated with the professor. It shows more penitence than taking it to the conduct process and lends credence to your *mistaken* guilt.

This is correct. I used to run the Judicial Affairs office on a college campus, and I can tell you that you'll do yourself no good going in there. The low threshold for finding responsibility doesn't help you, and you'll be going into a situation where nobody likely knows who you are and doesn't care about you personally, whereas presumably you have been upfront with the professor, established some sort of relationship (for better or worse) and are more than just a name to him/her.

[HRomanus]

This is correct. I used to run the Judicial Affairs office on a college campus, and I can tell you that you'll do yourself no good going in there. The low threshold for finding responsibility doesn't help you, and you'll be going into a situation where nobody likely knows who you are and doesn't care about you personally, whereas presumably you have been upfront with the professor, established some sort of relationship (for better or worse) and are more than just a name to him/her.

In addition, the professor is more likely to actively pursue your discipline if you take it to the conduct process and waste his time.