HELP! UCI Irvine or big scholarship at Chapman? Forum

[amal84]

I don't think UCI is as clear cut as others may think. Given your scholarship, you'd be walking out of UCI with 100K+ in debt. That's steep given your public interest goals. I think Loyola at 50K is manageable. Granted, it would be harder to get back to OC from Loyola than UCI. But IMO, that OC boost UCI gives you isn't worth 50K.

Chapman for almost free may be tempting but given their numbers do your due diligence and go in with your eyes wide open.

By the way, any stipulations on the scholarships?

The stipulations for renewal for UCI is GPA of 2.0 , Loyolal 2.8, Chapman 2.9 and USD 2.0 but these numbers don't scare me as I have always been top of my class and will do everything I can to continue that in law school. I'm glad you mentioned the debt of UCI bc that's the main reason for my post...wondering if it's worth it? Many "spit on" lower ranked schools like Chapman, but UCI is in no way Harvard or Yale so I'm really questioning the loan debt. I also think, however, people underestimate private public interest law firms which is what I plan to practice in. I do believe I can be financially successful in this field

[6lehderjets]

I don't think UCI is as clear cut as others may think. Given your scholarship, you'd be walking out of UCI with 100K+ in debt. That's steep given your public interest goals. I think Loyola at 50K is manageable. Granted, it would be harder to get back to OC from Loyola than UCI. But IMO, that OC boost UCI gives you isn't worth 50K.

Chapman for almost free may be tempting but given their numbers do your due diligence and go in with your eyes wide open.

By the way, any stipulations on the scholarships?

The stipulations for renewal for UCI is GPA of 2.0 , Loyolal 2.8, Chapman 2.9 and USD 2.0 but these numbers don't scare me as I have always been top of my class and will do everything I can to continue that in law school. I'm glad you mentioned the debt of UCI bc that's the main reason for my post...wondering if it's worth it? Many "spit on" lower ranked schools like Chapman, but UCI is in no way Harvard or Yale so I'm really questioning the loan debt. I also think, however, people underestimate private public interest law firms which is what I plan to practice in. I do believe I can be financially successful in this field

Negotiate with USD. They should match or exceed Loyola.

[unodostres]

Lots of first person in your post and strong belief. First, you won't be able to say ill do well because I did well in undergrad. Everyone will have that mentality. Second, you shouldn't expect the best coming out of these schools.

Chapmans median is a 2.8, just so you know. Then again, if you are lower than that you might as well drop out.

Is the debt worth it @ UCI? I don't think it is. That's over $1,000/month on a 10yr and 25 yr is obviously lower on 25...couple that with the 8.75% and you're racking up close to 10k in interest a year.

To me, that is scary if you're in the private sector. Still scary even with PI. Just look at the vale of tears and see what it's like to cope with that amount of debt even with big law.

The legal market is bad here in Southern California. You should re--take as many times as possible to get into UCI/LA/SC for close to free.

[BentleyLittle]

Retake

[amal84]

Lots of first person in your post and strong belief. First, you won't be able to say ill do well because I did well in undergrad. Everyone will have that mentality. Second, you shouldn't expect the best coming out of these schools.

Chapmans median is a 2.8, just so you know. Then again, if you are lower than that you might as well drop out.

Is the debt worth it @ UCI? I don't think it is. That's over $1,000/month on a 10yr and 25 yr is obviously lower on 25...couple that with the 8.75% and you're racking up close to 10k in interest a year.

To me, that is scary if you're in the private sector. Still scary even with PI. Just look at the vale of tears and see what it's like to cope with that amount of debt even with big law.

The legal market is bad here in Southern California. You should re--take as many times as possible to get into UCI/LA/SC for close to free.

My GPA in undergrad was 3.8. I don't feel that I will do well in law school because I did well in undergrad, I feel I will do well because I know what hard work is and what it takes to put everything I have into what I want to succeed in. I am an older student (30yrs) with a nine year old child. Re-taking the LSAT and taking another year off is not an option for me. I am not a young student living off of my parents or even a non-parent student who can have a more flexible schedule. Unfortunately this is the hand that I am dealt and I'm just trying to figure out the best option for the choices that I have been afforded.

[amal84]

Good luck! Follow your dreams!

Thanks! Still deciding, Chapman is now offering a full ride

[cron1834]

Good luck! Follow your dreams!

Thanks! Still deciding, Chapman is now offering a full ride

This exchange is going to look funny when it's no longer April 1.

[worldtraveler]

Lots of first person in your post and strong belief. First, you won't be able to say ill do well because I did well in undergrad. Everyone will have that mentality. Second, you shouldn't expect the best coming out of these schools.

Chapmans median is a 2.8, just so you know. Then again, if you are lower than that you might as well drop out.

Is the debt worth it @ UCI? I don't think it is. That's over $1,000/month on a 10yr and 25 yr is obviously lower on 25...couple that with the 8.75% and you're racking up close to 10k in interest a year.

To me, that is scary if you're in the private sector. Still scary even with PI. Just look at the vale of tears and see what it's like to cope with that amount of debt even with big law.

The legal market is bad here in Southern California. You should re--take as many times as possible to get into UCI/LA/SC for close to free.

My GPA in undergrad was 3.8. I don't feel that I will do well in law school because I did well in undergrad, I feel I will do well because I know what hard work is and what it takes to put everything I have into what I want to succeed in. I am an older student (30yrs) with a nine year old child. Re-taking the LSAT and taking another year off is not an option for me. I am not a young student living off of my parents or even a non-parent student who can have a more flexible schedule. Unfortunately this is the hand that I am dealt and I'm just trying to figure out the best option for the choices that I have been afforded.

Tons of other people in your class will also know what hard work is. You will never find a single law graduate who says you can predict your grades before you start, and there is a reason for that.

[unodostres]

Lots of first person in your post and strong belief. First, you won't be able to say ill do well because I did well in undergrad. Everyone will have that mentality. Second, you shouldn't expect the best coming out of these schools.

Chapmans median is a 2.8, just so you know. Then again, if you are lower than that you might as well drop out.

Is the debt worth it @ UCI? I don't think it is. That's over $1,000/month on a 10yr and 25 yr is obviously lower on 25...couple that with the 8.75% and you're racking up close to 10k in interest a year.

To me, that is scary if you're in the private sector. Still scary even with PI. Just look at the vale of tears and see what it's like to cope with that amount of debt even with big law.

The legal market is bad here in Southern California. You should re--take as many times as possible to get into UCI/LA/SC for close to free.

My GPA in undergrad was 3.8. I don't feel that I will do well in law school because I did well in undergrad, I feel I will do well because I know what hard work is and what it takes to put everything I have into what I want to succeed in. I am an older student (30yrs) with a nine year old child. Re-taking the LSAT and taking another year off is not an option for me. I am not a young student living off of my parents or even a non-parent student who can have a more flexible schedule. Unfortunately this is the hand that I am dealt and I'm just trying to figure out the best option for the choices that I have been afforded.

You're missing my point. Everyone will be saying the same thing as you. You should play your cards as if you will end up at median. You are not special.

Wait, you assume that your flexibility will be easier in law school than your lsat studies? It won't. But whatever, you can play your cards at these schools if you want. They are all bad options, IMO. You have a 3.8. With a 160+ you change your odds and the amount of money.

But again, if you feel comfortable going to these schools, id probably do UCI.

Good luck.

[BigZuck]

Christ, we really aren't advising that people attend UCI and pay 100K in tuition alone, let alone cost of living? Unless I misread, the OP said she had a 15K a year scholarship which means still on the hook for 30K a year tuition. Plus she said she would taking out student loan debt.

Look OP, you seem like a good person and I respect having goals/wanting to do good for other people. But please, whatever you do, don't go to law school. Especially because you have a child. She is an innocent in all this and doesn't deserve to be buried under debt. The grim reality is that if you attend either of these schools your chances of getting the job you want is remote and the chance of getting a job that can adequately pay off the debt is even more remote. If you attend any of these schools you actually have a higher likelihood of harming a child (your own) than helping children. You can do much more good for people but sticking with (and ideally advancing on) your current path.

If we're talking a large scholarship to UCLA/USC (or at the very least, a full ride to UCI) then this might start making sense.

[unodostres]

^all these schools are horrible decisions. Re-take is the only answer if she wants to. but apparently law school is going to be easier to manage than doing a few hours of the LSAT on a consistent basis.


Op you're throwing away lots of money by going to these schools at these prices. Think of your child and how it could impact their life.

[North]

Just because UCI looks great compared to Chapman doesn't mean UCI at near sticker is a good choice you possums.

OP if you have a 3.8 UG GPA, that doesn't tell me you'll be at the top of your class at any law school (you won't, and it certainly didn't mean anything in my case), it tells me you're wasting an opportunity to go to Berkeley, UCLA, or USC because you didn't try hard enough on the LSAT.

[amal84]

Lots of first person in your post and strong belief. First, you won't be able to say ill do well because I did well in undergrad. Everyone will have that mentality. Second, you shouldn't expect the best coming out of these schools.

Chapmans median is a 2.8, just so you know. Then again, if you are lower than that you might as well drop out.

Is the debt worth it @ UCI? I don't think it is. That's over $1,000/month on a 10yr and 25 yr is obviously lower on 25...couple that with the 8.75% and you're racking up close to 10k in interest a year.

To me, that is scary if you're in the private sector. Still scary even with PI. Just look at the vale of tears and see what it's like to cope with that amount of debt even with big law.

The legal market is bad here in Southern California. You should re--take as many times as possible to get into UCI/LA/SC for close to free.

My GPA in undergrad was 3.8. I don't feel that I will do well in law school because I did well in undergrad, I feel I will do well because I know what hard work is and what it takes to put everything I have into what I want to succeed in. I am an older student (30yrs) with a nine year old child. Re-taking the LSAT and taking another year off is not an option for me. I am not a young student living off of my parents or even a non-parent student who can have a more flexible schedule. Unfortunately this is the hand that I am dealt and I'm just trying to figure out the best option for the choices that I have been afforded.

Tons of other people in your class will also know what hard work is. You will never find a single law graduate who says you can predict your grades before you start, and there is a reason for that.

I would assume you wont find a single student anywhere period who can predict their grades! Stupid to think that's what I was assuming

[amal84]

Christ, we really aren't advising that people attend UCI and pay 100K in tuition alone, let alone cost of living? Unless I misread, the OP said she had a 15K a year scholarship which means still on the hook for 30K a year tuition. Plus she said she would taking out student loan debt.

Look OP, you seem like a good person and I respect having goals/wanting to do good for other people. But please, whatever you do, don't go to law school. Especially because you have a child. She is an innocent in all this and doesn't deserve to be buried under debt. The grim reality is that if you attend either of these schools your chances of getting the job you want is remote and the chance of getting a job that can adequately pay off the debt is even more remote. If you attend any of these schools you actually have a higher likelihood of harming a child (your own) than helping children. You can do much more good for people but sticking with (and ideally advancing on) your current path.

If we're talking a large scholarship to UCLA/USC (or at the very least, a full ride to UCI) then this might start making sense.

I think you mentioning my child in your post is insulting and absurd. You obviously are not a parent. For you to say I shouldn't go to law school simply bc of my school options combined with the fact that I'm a mother is insulting to all mothers. Staying in a career that I began to do part time when my child was infant isn't an option because it's not what I want to do, nor has it ever been. It began as a job to support my family and get me to law school. Yes, it took years because I am a single parent, but to say, throw away years of teaching my child you can achieve what you want regardless of what cards you are dealt is the worst advice I've ever seen on these forums. I think it's ridiculous people come here and act like successful attorneys can only come out of these tops schools. Reality for Chapman is not that I would be buried in debt, with an offer of a full ride and housing expense, there would be no grim debt. The purpose of this post was to ask whether UCI is worth the debt. Not for people to insult my position in these schools or my decisions to go to school as a single parent

[amal84]

Lots of first person in your post and strong belief. First, you won't be able to say ill do well because I did well in undergrad. Everyone will have that mentality. Second, you shouldn't expect the best coming out of these schools.

Chapmans median is a 2.8, just so you know. Then again, if you are lower than that you might as well drop out.

Is the debt worth it @ UCI? I don't think it is. That's over $1,000/month on a 10yr and 25 yr is obviously lower on 25...couple that with the 8.75% and you're racking up close to 10k in interest a year.

To me, that is scary if you're in the private sector. Still scary even with PI. Just look at the vale of tears and see what it's like to cope with that amount of debt even with big law.

The legal market is bad here in Southern California. You should re--take as many times as possible to get into UCI/LA/SC for close to free.

My GPA in undergrad was 3.8. I don't feel that I will do well in law school because I did well in undergrad, I feel I will do well because I know what hard work is and what it takes to put everything I have into what I want to succeed in. I am an older student (30yrs) with a nine year old child. Re-taking the LSAT and taking another year off is not an option for me. I am not a young student living off of my parents or even a non-parent student who can have a more flexible schedule. Unfortunately this is the hand that I am dealt and I'm just trying to figure out the best option for the choices that I have been afforded.

You're missing my point. Everyone will be saying the same thing as you. You should play your cards as if you will end up at median. You are not special.

Wait, you assume that your flexibility will be easier in law school than your lsat studies? It won't. But whatever, you can play your cards at these schools if you want. They are all bad options, IMO. You have a 3.8. With a 160+ you change your odds and the amount of money.

But again, if you feel comfortable going to these schools, id probably do UCI.

Good luck.

I don't think a schedule with LSAT is less flexible than law school, what I was saying is taking off work for attending law school is an obviously an option...taking off for a re-take for the LSAT is not. That simple.

[BigZuck]

Christ, we really aren't advising that people attend UCI and pay 100K in tuition alone, let alone cost of living? Unless I misread, the OP said she had a 15K a year scholarship which means still on the hook for 30K a year tuition. Plus she said she would taking out student loan debt.

Look OP, you seem like a good person and I respect having goals/wanting to do good for other people. But please, whatever you do, don't go to law school. Especially because you have a child. She is an innocent in all this and doesn't deserve to be buried under debt. The grim reality is that if you attend either of these schools your chances of getting the job you want is remote and the chance of getting a job that can adequately pay off the debt is even more remote. If you attend any of these schools you actually have a higher likelihood of harming a child (your own) than helping children. You can do much more good for people but sticking with (and ideally advancing on) your current path.

If we're talking a large scholarship to UCLA/USC (or at the very least, a full ride to UCI) then this might start making sense.

I think you mentioning my child in your post is insulting and absurd. You obviously are not a parent. For you to say I shouldn't go to law school simply bc of my school options combined with the fact that I'm a mother is insulting to all mothers. Staying in a career that I began to do part time when my child was infant isn't an option because it's not what I want to do, nor has it ever been. It began as a job to support my family and get me to law school. Yes, it took years because I am a single parent, but to say, throw away years of teaching my child you can achieve what you want regardless of what cards you are dealt is the worst advice I've ever seen on these forums. I think it's ridiculous people come here and act like successful attorneys can only come out of these tops schools. Reality for Chapman is not that I would be buried in debt, with an offer of a full ride and housing expense, there would be no grim debt. The purpose of this post was to ask whether UCI is worth the debt. Not for people to insult my position in these schools or my decisions to go to school as a single parent

You never said you had a cost of living stipend at Chapman, how was I supposed to know that? Read your mind? You said 90% scholarship, then full ride, and also that you would take out loans for cost of living. To me, that says about 70K debt (especially with another mouth to feed) for a school that has a 33% employment rate. It's one of the very worst law schools in the country. Honestly, even with a cost of living stipend it shouldn't be a consideration. It's a dumpster fire and most likely won't get you the job you want, especially because you said "civil rights" (a tough to get field of PI) and that you had no legal connections to the field.

Then, 100K+ for UCI is also a nonstarter. The school just isn't worth that much debt, especially for someone who wants PI.

I don't get how what I said is insulting to every mother on the planet, can you elaborate? I was saying you as an individual should not go into 70-100K+ debt for these schools because they probably won't get you where you want to go and in 3 years time more likely than not you'll be way in the hole, you won't have the job you went to school for or you will but you won't be able to pay off the debt (especially if PSLF goes away) and then you have someone relying on you who could potentially suffer for all that.

Look, I think it's great to have goals and aspirations and values and all that but I don't think people should have smoke blown up their butt about the reality of the situation they're facing/life. If you want someone to tell you "Good luck, follow your dreams!" go talk to your aunt or something, don't ask for advice about crappy and/or overly expensive law schools from people who know something about law school/the legal job market.

[kingpin101]

Christ, we really aren't advising that people attend UCI and pay 100K in tuition alone, let alone cost of living? Unless I misread, the OP said she had a 15K a year scholarship which means still on the hook for 30K a year tuition. Plus she said she would taking out student loan debt.

Look OP, you seem like a good person and I respect having goals/wanting to do good for other people. But please, whatever you do, don't go to law school. Especially because you have a child. She is an innocent in all this and doesn't deserve to be buried under debt. The grim reality is that if you attend either of these schools your chances of getting the job you want is remote and the chance of getting a job that can adequately pay off the debt is even more remote. If you attend any of these schools you actually have a higher likelihood of harming a child (your own) than helping children. You can do much more good for people but sticking with (and ideally advancing on) your current path.

If we're talking a large scholarship to UCLA/USC (or at the very least, a full ride to UCI) then this might start making sense.

I think you mentioning my child in your post is insulting and absurd. You obviously are not a parent. For you to say I shouldn't go to law school simply bc of my school options combined with the fact that I'm a mother is insulting to all mothers. Staying in a career that I began to do part time when my child was infant isn't an option because it's not what I want to do, nor has it ever been. It began as a job to support my family and get me to law school. Yes, it took years because I am a single parent, but to say, throw away years of teaching my child you can achieve what you want regardless of what cards you are dealt is the worst advice I've ever seen on these forums. I think it's ridiculous people come here and act like successful attorneys can only come out of these tops schools. Reality for Chapman is not that I would be buried in debt, with an offer of a full ride and housing expense, there would be no grim debt. The purpose of this post was to ask whether UCI is worth the debt. Not for people to insult my position in these schools or my decisions to go to school as a single parent

My god, if you truly go on choosing between the two options, then I really do feel bad for your child.

[North]

You never said you had a cost of living stipend at Chapman, how was I supposed to know that? Read your mind? You said 90% scholarship, then full ride, and also that you would take out loans for cost of living. To me, that says about 70K debt (especially with another mouth to feed) for a school that has a 33% employment rate. It's one of the very worst law schools in the country. Honestly, even with a cost of living stipend it shouldn't be a consideration. It's a dumpster fire and most likely won't get you the job you want, especially because you said "civil rights" (a tough to get field of PI) and that you had no legal connections to the field.

Then, 100K+ for UCI is also a nonstarter. The school just isn't worth that much debt, especially for someone who wants PI.

I don't get how what I said is insulting to every mother on the planet, can you elaborate? I was saying you as an individual should not go into 70-100K+ debt for these schools because they probably won't get you where you want to go and in 3 years time more likely than not you'll be way in the hole, you won't have the job you went to school for or you will but you won't be able to pay off the debt (especially if PSLF goes away) and then you have someone relying on you who could potentially suffer for all that.

Look, I think it's great to have goals and aspirations and values and all that but I don't think people should have smoke blown up their butt about the reality of the situation they're facing/life. If you want someone to tell you "Good luck, follow your dreams!" go talk to your aunt or something, don't ask for advice about crappy and/or overly expensive law schools from people who know something about law school/the legal job market.

North, J., concurring.

[worldtraveler]

Lots of first person in your post and strong belief. First, you won't be able to say ill do well because I did well in undergrad. Everyone will have that mentality. Second, you shouldn't expect the best coming out of these schools.

Chapmans median is a 2.8, just so you know. Then again, if you are lower than that you might as well drop out.

Is the debt worth it @ UCI? I don't think it is. That's over $1,000/month on a 10yr and 25 yr is obviously lower on 25...couple that with the 8.75% and you're racking up close to 10k in interest a year.

To me, that is scary if you're in the private sector. Still scary even with PI. Just look at the vale of tears and see what it's like to cope with that amount of debt even with big law.

The legal market is bad here in Southern California. You should re--take as many times as possible to get into UCI/LA/SC for close to free.

My GPA in undergrad was 3.8. I don't feel that I will do well in law school because I did well in undergrad, I feel I will do well because I know what hard work is and what it takes to put everything I have into what I want to succeed in. I am an older student (30yrs) with a nine year old child. Re-taking the LSAT and taking another year off is not an option for me. I am not a young student living off of my parents or even a non-parent student who can have a more flexible schedule. Unfortunately this is the hand that I am dealt and I'm just trying to figure out the best option for the choices that I have been afforded.

Tons of other people in your class will also know what hard work is. You will never find a single law graduate who says you can predict your grades before you start, and there is a reason for that.

I would assume you wont find a single student anywhere period who can predict their grades! Stupid to think that's what I was assuming

So then what does "I feel I will do well" mean if it doesn't mean good grades?

[secondshot]

We put together a forum for 0L-3L los angeles law students here, if interested: http://lalawschool.freeforums.net/