Savannah Law school Forum

[Mack.Hambleton]

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[deloga]

Why would you go on a website called "top law schools" and defend TTTs? I don't get it

What can I say? I like the abuse.

[arklaw13]

Why would you go on a website called "top law schools" and defend TTTs? I don't get it

What can I say? I like the abuse.

Your mother was probably right when she said that you'll make a great lawyer since you love to argue so much.

[deloga]

Why would you go on a website called "top law schools" and defend TTTs? I don't get it

What can I say? I like the abuse.

Your mother was probably right when she said that you'll make a great lawyer since you love to argue so much.

Oh, honey...

No. Just, no.

[cron1834]

John Marshall and SLS will undoubtedly end up in the same tier. There's literally no reason to expect otherwise.

[deloga]

John Marshall and SLS will undoubtedly end up in the same tier. There's literally no reason to expect otherwise.

You would most likely be absolutely correct. I'll try to pick up the pieces of my shattered dreams as best I can.

[Nonconsecutive]

So many necros lately.

[Ramius]

1. He is actually a she
2. Yup--we're a brand new school. Clearly, that means none of us will pass the bar or actually find a job.
3. We may technically be owned by John Marshall, but the two have absolutely NOTHING to do with one another (thank God). Of course John Marshall has shitty numbers--it's a pretty shitty school in an area already flooded with lawyers and several other superior schools within an hour or so away.
4. The "elitism" comment was really me just being a smartass--nothing personal meant by it.

In all fairness, you threw out ad hominem attacks about the elitism on this site, with nothing to back it up. Most on this site don't advocate elitism as you imagine it. What people on TLS advocate is much more responsible at its core: make responsible financial decisions based on the cost of attendance combined with expected outcome. And with JMLS (and it's affiliates), the reality is that the majority of graduates aren't lawyers AT ALL. Take offense all you want, but the data is fact. I'm not going to law school to be a real estate agent or Starbucks barista, are you? Just something to keep in mind when you try to claim that SLS (savannah, not Stanford) is worth it for the average graduate.

[cron1834]

John Marshall and SLS will undoubtedly end up in the same tier. There's literally no reason to expect otherwise.

You would most likely be absolutely correct. I'll try to pick up the pieces of my shattered dreams as best I can.

Well, they're not shattered yet!

But there's no reason to expect a better outcome than the average JM outcome. You know, on average

[deloga]

1. He is actually a she
2. Yup--we're a brand new school. Clearly, that means none of us will pass the bar or actually find a job.
3. We may technically be owned by John Marshall, but the two have absolutely NOTHING to do with one another (thank God). Of course John Marshall has shitty numbers--it's a pretty shitty school in an area already flooded with lawyers and several other superior schools within an hour or so away.
4. The "elitism" comment was really me just being a smartass--nothing personal meant by it.

In all fairness, you threw out ad hominem attacks about the elitism on this site, with nothing to back it up. Most on this site don't advocate elitism as you imagine it. What people on TLS advocate is much more responsible at its core: make responsible financial decisions based on the cost of attendance combined with expected outcome. And with JMLS (and it's affiliates), the reality is that the majority of graduates aren't lawyers AT ALL. Take offense all you want, but the data is fact. I'm not going to law school to be a real estate agent or Starbucks barista, are you? Just something to keep in mind when you try to claim that SLS (savannah, not Stanford) is worth it for the average graduate.

Fair enough. Although, I wasn't talking about the "average graduate," (especially since my school doesn't even have any graduates yet, so time will tell on that one). My original post was about SLS (Savannah, not Stanford) being a good pick for someone from Savannah or someone who plans to practice there. I additionally stated that part of my reason for going there was affordability. Yes, the tuition is outrageous--unless you're given a full ride like I was. The broader point of my post was that everyone has their reasons for choosing the school they do, and to assume that everyone at a particular school will be a miserable failure simply because it's ranked poorly (or, not at all, as here) comes across as incredibly elitist, regardless of if that's how it's intended.

[deloga]

John Marshall and SLS will undoubtedly end up in the same tier. There's literally no reason to expect otherwise.

You would most likely be absolutely correct. I'll try to pick up the pieces of my shattered dreams as best I can.

Well, they're not shattered yet!

But there's no reason to expect a better outcome than the average JM outcome. You know, on average

Incorrect. The average JM student ends up living in the Atlanta area (at least while in school, if not after). I'm in beautiful Savannah. Clearly, I'm already winning.

[Ramius]

John Marshall and SLS will undoubtedly end up in the same tier. There's literally no reason to expect otherwise.

You would most likely be absolutely correct. I'll try to pick up the pieces of my shattered dreams as best I can.

Well, they're not shattered yet!

But there's no reason to expect a better outcome than the average JM outcome. You know, on average

Incorrect. The average JM student ends up living in the Atlanta area (at least while in school, if not after). I'm in beautiful Savannah. Clearly, I'm already winning.

Coming from someone who loves that area, I still think this is stupid. Living in abject poverty in the most desirable location in the world (based on personal definition) is still a horrible outcome.

Let me be clear that I won't say universally that SLS is a bad outcome, because it's possible to have a positive outcome from it, but I like playing the odds, and in this case, the odds are firmly stacked against you. Snub your nose at all of us and claim that you've made the right choice all you want, but the reality is that SLS and schools of that ilk are financial suicide for the majority of students and they should find better.

[Ramius]

1. He is actually a she
2. Yup--we're a brand new school. Clearly, that means none of us will pass the bar or actually find a job.
3. We may technically be owned by John Marshall, but the two have absolutely NOTHING to do with one another (thank God). Of course John Marshall has shitty numbers--it's a pretty shitty school in an area already flooded with lawyers and several other superior schools within an hour or so away.
4. The "elitism" comment was really me just being a smartass--nothing personal meant by it.

In all fairness, you threw out ad hominem attacks about the elitism on this site, with nothing to back it up. Most on this site don't advocate elitism as you imagine it. What people on TLS advocate is much more responsible at its core: make responsible financial decisions based on the cost of attendance combined with expected outcome. And with JMLS (and it's affiliates), the reality is that the majority of graduates aren't lawyers AT ALL. Take offense all you want, but the data is fact. I'm not going to law school to be a real estate agent or Starbucks barista, are you? Just something to keep in mind when you try to claim that SLS (savannah, not Stanford) is worth it for the average graduate.

Fair enough. Although, I wasn't talking about the "average graduate," (especially since my school doesn't even have any graduates yet, so time will tell on that one). My original post was about SLS (Savannah, not Stanford) being a good pick for someone from Savannah or someone who plans to practice there. I additionally stated that part of my reason for going there was affordability. Yes, the tuition is outrageous--unless you're given a full ride like I was. The broader point of my post was that everyone has their reasons for choosing the school they do, and to assume that everyone at a particular school will be a miserable failure simply because it's ranked poorly (or, not at all, as here) comes across as incredibly elitist, regardless of if that's how it's intended.

And taking into account affordability along with career goals is exactly what you should be doing. I'm not smashing anyone for attending any given institution if their cost and goals are perfectly aligned with what they should expect out of the institution, but too often people fail at this so badly that they end in financial ruin because they have $150k debt for a school that can reasonably get them a shot at a $40k public defender job or something like that. That's a horrible outcome, especially with PSLF/PAYE/IBR on the chopping block.

All I ask from my generation is that smart decisions are made. That's all.

[deloga]

Coming from someone who loves that area, I still think this is stupid. Living in abject poverty in the most desirable location in the world (based on personal definition) is still a horrible outcome.

Let me be clear that I won't say universally that SLS is a bad outcome, because it's possible to have a positive outcome from it, but I like playing the odds, and in this case, the odds are firmly stacked against you. Snub your nose at all of us and claim that you've made the right choice all you want, but the reality is that SLS and schools of that ilk are financial suicide for the majority of students and they should find better.

No nose snubbing here. I don't particularly like it when others turn their nose up at me like I'll be a sub-par attorney simply because of the school I attended. BUT, different is scary, and people don't like scary, so I get it. On the financial suicide comment, I have classmates who are already well over 100K in debt, and like my initial post acknowledged, most of us will likely end up in smaller firms, so you may be absolutely right when it comes to their situations.

[Ramius]

Coming from someone who loves that area, I still think this is stupid. Living in abject poverty in the most desirable location in the world (based on personal definition) is still a horrible outcome.

Let me be clear that I won't say universally that SLS is a bad outcome, because it's possible to have a positive outcome from it, but I like playing the odds, and in this case, the odds are firmly stacked against you. Snub your nose at all of us and claim that you've made the right choice all you want, but the reality is that SLS and schools of that ilk are financial suicide for the majority of students and they should find better.

No nose snubbing here. I don't particularly like it when others turn their nose up at me like I'll be a sub-par attorney simply because of the school I attended. BUT, different is scary, and people don't like scary, so I get it. On the financial suicide comment, I have classmates who are already well over 100K in debt, and like my initial post acknowledged, most of us will likely end up in smaller firms, so you may be absolutely right when it comes to their situations.

Keep in mind that those here are mostly not attacking the school itself (although starting a law school during the biggest economic recession in the past 75 years is pretty irresponsible), they are putting perspective for people who end up googling your school. If you end up with $25k debt and a decent job in Savannah after graduation, congratulations, you won. But the fact remains that places like SLS are ruining lives when people enroll and have unrealistic expectations and pay a premium for it, even though those expectations were ridiculous on its face.

[84651846190]

1. He is actually a she
2. Yup--we're a brand new school. Clearly, that means none of us will pass the bar or actually find a job.
3. We may technically be owned by John Marshall, but the two have absolutely NOTHING to do with one another (thank God). Of course John Marshall has shitty numbers--it's a pretty shitty school in an area already flooded with lawyers and several other superior schools within an hour or so away.
4. The "elitism" comment was really me just being a smartass--nothing personal meant by it.

In all fairness, you threw out ad hominem attacks about the elitism on this site, with nothing to back it up. Most on this site don't advocate elitism as you imagine it. What people on TLS advocate is much more responsible at its core: make responsible financial decisions based on the cost of attendance combined with expected outcome. And with JMLS (and it's affiliates), the reality is that the majority of graduates aren't lawyers AT ALL. Take offense all you want, but the data is fact. I'm not going to law school to be a real estate agent or Starbucks barista, are you? Just something to keep in mind when you try to claim that SLS (savannah, not Stanford) is worth it for the average graduate.

Fair enough. Although, I wasn't talking about the "average graduate," (especially since my school doesn't even have any graduates yet, so time will tell on that one). My original post was about SLS (Savannah, not Stanford) being a good pick for someone from Savannah or someone who plans to practice there. I additionally stated that part of my reason for going there was affordability. Yes, the tuition is outrageous--unless you're given a full ride like I was. The broader point of my post was that everyone has their reasons for choosing the school they do, and to assume that everyone at a particular school will be a miserable failure simply because it's ranked poorly (or, not at all, as here) comes across as incredibly elitist, regardless of if that's how it's intended.

Most people who graduate from Savannah "law school" will never practice law, so how could it possibly be "a good pick for someone from Savannah" who "plans to practice there"? You are defending fraudsters and scam artists by defending this school. Why are you doing that?

[deloga]

Most people who graduate from Savannah "law school" will never practice law, so how could it possibly be "a good pick for someone from Savannah" who "plans to practice there"? You are defending fraudsters and scam artists by defending this school. Why are you doing that?

I see what you did there. Clever! I'm sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities, but putting quotation marks around something doesn't make it any less real. If I thought your opinion mattered in the slightest, I'd make sure to keep you apprised of my employment situation. But, you seem plenty miserable as is, without me rubbing my future success in your face. Hey, serious question though--can I borrow your crystal ball for a minute? I have a fake exam in my fake Secured Transactions class soon, and I'd really like to know what fake questions to fake expect.

[Mack.Hambleton]

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[MKC]

[sublime]

..

[TheSpanishMain]

2. Yup--we're a brand new school. Clearly, that means none of us will pass the bar or actually find a job.

People use this argument when defending TTTTs all the time and it's like an LSAT question on flawed reasoning.

No one here is arguing that NONE of the SLS students will pass the bar or find a job. Of course some will. Just because that number is more than zero doesn't make it a good bet. A few people who drop out of high school will turn out to be tech savants and end up selling their start up for millions at age thirty. It doesn't follow that dropping out of high school leads to financial security and early retirement.

[deloga]

People use this argument when defending TTTTs all the time and it's like an LSAT question on flawed reasoning.

Reason? What's that? I decided to take a chance on a brand new school in the area I want to practice in with no bar passage or employment rates to analyze. Clearly, I have no idea what this "reasoning" you speak of is. Personally, I think a person's shot at success should depend on their talent, drive, and work ethic. I'd much rather accept a job offer that was based on the experience and skills I've busted ass to obtain while in law school than one that was given to me because of the name on my diploma. The job offers I've been given thus far have been because of the work I'm capable of and the reputation I've worked to develop, which is exactly how I want it to be.

[CoffeeIsLife]

People use this argument when defending TTTTs all the time and it's like an LSAT question on flawed reasoning.

Reason? What's that? I decided to take a chance on a brand new school in the area I want to practice in with no bar passage or employment rates to analyze. Clearly, I have no idea what this "reasoning" you speak of is. Personally, I think a person's shot at success should depend on their talent, drive, and work ethic. I'd much rather accept a job offer that was based on the experience and skills I've busted ass to obtain while in law school than one that was given to me because of the name on my diploma. The job offers I've been given thus far have been because of the work I'm capable of and the reputation I've worked to develop, which is exactly how I want it to be.

Basically you're saying you would rather hold onto whatever sense of pride you have and be unemployed because of your choice, rather than make an intelligent decision and attend a school which has a strong alumni base, and LST Score which will allow you to find a job.

Doesn't seem like you have a good idea about how this whole thing works

[deloga]

Basically you're saying you would rather hold onto whatever sense of pride you have and be unemployed because of your choice, rather than make an intelligent decision and attend a school which has a strong alumni base, and LST Score which will allow you to find a job.

Doesn't seem like you have a good idea about how this whole thing works

I'm sorry--have we met? Why would you assume I'm unemployed? How "intelligent" of you.

Let's work on our critical reading skills for a moment, shall we?

I'd much rather accept a job offer that was based on the experience and skills I've busted ass to obtain while in law school than one that was given to me because of the name on my diploma. The job offers I've been given thus far have been because of the work I'm capable of and the reputation I've worked to develop, which is exactly how I want it to be.

[SnakySalmon]

Basically you're saying you would rather hold onto whatever sense of pride you have and be unemployed because of your choice, rather than make an intelligent decision and attend a school which has a strong alumni base, and LST Score which will allow you to find a job.

Doesn't seem like you have a good idea about how this whole thing works

I'm sorry--have we met? Why would you assume I'm unemployed? How "intelligent" of you.

Let's work on our critical reading skills for a moment, shall we?

I'd much rather accept a job offer that was based on the experience and skills I've busted ass to obtain while in law school than one that was given to me because of the name on my diploma. The job offers I've been given thus far have been because of the work I'm capable of and the reputation I've worked to develop, which is exactly how I want it to be.

To be clear, are you being paid to do an actual legal job, or are you referring to either unpaid internships, or things that don't involve your future JD as job offers?