UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA? Forum

[justwondering123]

This is completely wrong, a student can apply to whatever programme they choose. Plus all the schools i have looked at have stated that if one wants a more long term career in the US e.g. wants to reside in the States and work then a JD is a more efficient route to take rather than the LLM which will limit you in the long run.

I'm happy to stand corrected. I guess US schools are happy to take the cash. Effectively you get to pay $250k for a chance at OCI.

It's still maintain that, if you can graduate with a 1st, working in London then transferring will be a safer and cheaper route to the same end.

[s]Yes but again your mistaken, according to reports ([/s]i've had various meetings about this with my personal tutorat my university) in terms of longevityand sufficiency the JD route is a much better path to take, asthen your not simply placing all you've got on that firm, say if that firm fires you? no other firm will take you (hardly likely) you will most likely have to start from scratch again. I think it needs to be remembered that those with a foreign law degree and an LLM will be competing against national students with a FULL law degree. why would a firm want a transfer from another country who has minor knowledge of one of the worlds leading legal systems, over a candidate who has trained for 3 years studying the law and passed the bar with work experience.

What I read.

wow if this is what you do in your spare time you really need to get out more.

[BrianGriffintheDog]

Doesn't law schools in US don't count GPA from foreign universities, except for Canada? And as a result, don't they just look at your LSAT & soft factors to assess your application?

[albanach]

Doesn't law schools in US don't count GPA from foreign universities, except for Canada? And as a result, don't they just look at your LSAT & soft factors to assess your application?

That is pretty much the case - they have a floor which I believe will usually be "Above Average" though schools like HYS might look for a Superior designation. Other than that, your undergraduate degree becomes pretty much irrelevant because there's no useful way to compare to US GPAs.

[Doritos]

I appreciate AreJay's humor

[justwondering123]

Doesn't law schools in US don't count GPA from foreign universities, except for Canada? And as a result, don't they just look at your LSAT & soft factors to assess your application?

Sorry what was the soft factors I'm all new to this?

[albanach]

Doesn't law schools in US don't count GPA from foreign universities, except for Canada? And as a result, don't they just look at your LSAT & soft factors to assess your application?

Sorry what was the soft factors I'm all new to this?

You can search this site and find plenty of discussion about softs. Basically they are the non academic factors that differentiate you from other candidates. For a candidate with no effective GPA, they could be more important.

[descartesb4thehorse]

Doesn't law schools in US don't count GPA from foreign universities, except for Canada? And as a result, don't they just look at your LSAT & soft factors to assess your application?

That is pretty much the case - they have a floor which I believe will usually be "Above Average" though schools like HYS might look for a Superior designation. Other than that, your undergraduate degree becomes pretty much irrelevant because there's no useful way to compare to US GPAs.

Doubt this is the case for T-14s, who probably know quite a bit about the British system. For HYS and to a lesser extent CC, you're probably going to want a first. You might be able to scrape by with a high LSAT (over 172, although to be repetitive, don't assume you can get this without a lot of work) and good softs: work experience, awards/designations, a good undergrad institution, a unique story, interesting major (although you obviously did law), etc. I'm not sure how URM factors into an international application. I would definitely write a diversity statement if it applies to you, but it may not be as big of a boost as it would be for a domestic applicant.

If you did get Columbia, would you (could you?) do the dual with UCL, King's, or the other offered schools to get your LLM? I doubt you'd know right now, but that would be an interesting thing to find out.

[justwondering123]

Doesn't law schools in US don't count GPA from foreign universities, except for Canada? And as a result, don't they just look at your LSAT & soft factors to assess your application?

That is pretty much the case - they have a floor which I believe will usually be "Above Average" though schools like HYS might look for a Superior designation. Other than that, your undergraduate degree becomes pretty much irrelevant because there's no useful way to compare to US GPAs.

Doubt this is the case for T-14s, who probably know quite a bit about the British system. For HYS and to a lesser extent CC, you're probably going to want a first. You might be able to scrape by with a high LSAT (over 172, although to be repetitive, don't assume you can get this without a lot of work) and good softs: work experience, awards/designations, a good undergrad institution, a unique story, interesting major (although you obviously did law), etc. I'm not sure how URM factors into an international application. I would definitely write a diversity statement if it applies to you, but it may not be as big of a boost as it would be for a domestic applicant.

If you did get Columbia, would you (could you?) do the dual with UCL, King's, or the other offered schools to get your LLM? I doubt you'd know right now, but that would be an interesting thing to find out.

I thought the reputation of your undergrad institution doesn't count- its more on the academic factors, so with a superior and a 175 along with good softs- is columbia a reality?


Had I would do the JD programme as I would like to reside in the US long term, and want the majority if not all of my career to be spent there, hence I would pursue this route rather than an LLM and nope I wouldn't do the UCL/KIngs programme as I already have a domestic law degree

[descartesb4thehorse]

Doesn't law schools in US don't count GPA from foreign universities, except for Canada? And as a result, don't they just look at your LSAT & soft factors to assess your application?

That is pretty much the case - they have a floor which I believe will usually be "Above Average" though schools like HYS might look for a Superior designation. Other than that, your undergraduate degree becomes pretty much irrelevant because there's no useful way to compare to US GPAs.

Doubt this is the case for T-14s, who probably know quite a bit about the British system. For HYS and to a lesser extent CC, you're probably going to want a first. You might be able to scrape by with a high LSAT (over 172, although to be repetitive, don't assume you can get this without a lot of work) and good softs: work experience, awards/designations, a good undergrad institution, a unique story, interesting major (although you obviously did law), etc. I'm not sure how URM factors into an international application. I would definitely write a diversity statement if it applies to you, but it may not be as big of a boost as it would be for a domestic applicant.

If you did get Columbia, would you (could you?) do the dual with UCL, King's, or the other offered schools to get your LLM? I doubt you'd know right now, but that would be an interesting thing to find out.

I thought the reputation of your undergrad institution doesn't count- its more on the academic factors, so with a superior and a 175 along with good softs- is columbia a reality?


Had I would do the JD programme as I would like to reside in the US long term, and want the majority if not all of my career to be spent there, hence I would pursue this route rather than an LLM and nope I wouldn't do the UCL/KIngs programme as I already have a domestic law degree

Fair enough. The prestige of your university (program) really is an interesting soft. You'll never know when someone on the adcomm is or knows an alum and thinks highly of a specific program, etc. Domestically, it'll be more of an issue as it is a soft that should help balance a GPA - a 3.7 from Harvard would be considered differently than a 3.7 from Arizona State, for instance - I'm not sure how much it could affect your application unless you went to Oxbridge. But to assume the Columbia adcomm doesn't know anything about English programs - especially when they partner with English schools - is not a bet I'd be comfortable taking.

No one can say what your chances are really, as we're all having a hard enough time figuring out our own chances even with loads of data that can be mined from TLS or LSN, just because the cycles vary a lot from year to year and, although numbers are a lot, they aren't everything, and some people have more of a cohesive application than others. If you REALLY think American law schools are the best way to get to American biglaw from England (and this is a big if that you should definitely consider), I'd focus on getting a first, which I'd consider a must, getting a high LSAT, and making sure you have a cohesive application.

[3ThrowAway99]

This is completely wrong, a student can apply to whatever programme they choose. Plus all the schools i have looked at have stated that if one wants a more long term career in the US e.g. wants to reside in the States and work then a JD is a more efficient route to take rather than the LLM which will limit you in the long run.

I'm happy to stand corrected. I guess US schools are happy to take the cash. Effectively you get to pay $250k for a chance at OCI.

It's still maintain that, if you can graduate with a 1st, working in London then transferring will be a safer and cheaper route to the same end.

[s]Yes but again your mistaken, according to reports ([/s]i've had various meetings about this with my personal tutorat my university) in terms of longevityand sufficiency the JD route is a much better path to take, asthen your not simply placing all you've got on that firm, say if that firm fires you? no other firm will take you (hardly likely) you will most likely have to start from scratch again. I think it needs to be remembered that those with a foreign law degree and an LLM will be competing against national students with a FULL law degree. why would a firm want a transfer from another country who has minor knowledge of one of the worlds leading legal systems, over a candidate who has trained for 3 years studying the law and passed the bar with work experience.

What I read.

But good luck OP, assuming you're not trolling. And I think for good answers you may want to call Harvard/Yale/Columbia directly and ask to speak with an admission counselor who can briefly advise you. You will really need to 'kill' the LSAT to have a chance at any of those schools, however, so I would also focus on LSAT prep.

[LLB2JD]

To OP:

Your LSAT is primarily going to be what makes or breaks you. If you can hit above a 170, i believe you'd get into a T-14 regardless of whether you graduate with a First Class or Second Upper. There was a individual (LLB Grad) here on TLS this past year with a 2:2, and got into Columbia. She had a 172 and applied ED.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/piccolittle

All I'll tell you is that study for the LSAT very well, break a 170, and you could very well be on your way into a top school even with a 2:2. If you need any more specific info, shoot me a PM.