Honesty/Transcripts question - UPDATED OP Forum

[TheStrand]

Eh I'm not a C&F attorney but there's a pretty extensive background check for bar admissions and even relatively simple ones are pretty good at digging up old school attendance, particularly if you got federal financial aid. Also, you would be surprised at what's available and easy to find as "public record."

[2014]

Withdrawing was probably the right decision. You are realistically going to be applying to a totally different range of schools next year anyway and when these schools found out you would have likely faced either a pulled admission offer or a decline.

[hopefulfls]

I put out transcript requests today. It looks like my GPA will probably be right at a 2.0 after everything is calculated.

So, my question is this. If I want to apply EA next cycle, what kind of LSAT am I going to need to make it into a decent school?

[cinephile]

Well, I guess it depends what kind of school you're going to apply to, but with a 2.0 you're going to need something amazing. The conventional wisdom on here is that with 2.x you need a 170+, but when you're at 2.0, maybe even higher.

[TheStrand]

http://search.lawschoolnumbers.com/applications

I would search LSN with your GPA range and look at what success applicants have had at various schools you want to go to and see what thier LSATs are. (Make sure you exclude URM applicants unless you are one)

[FiveSermon]

Don't go to law school.

[hopefulfls]

Don't go to law school.

Yoda says, "Helpful you are not".

[well-hello-there]

I put out transcript requests today. It looks like my GPA will probably be right at a 2.0 after everything is calculated.

So, my question is this. If I want to apply EA next cycle, what kind of LSAT am I going to need to make it into a decent school?

I would strongly consider a GPA retake.

you need a phenomenal LSAT score if you want a bigname school. otherwise, score decent and get into a regional school where you want to live.

[hopefulfls]

I put out transcript requests today. It looks like my GPA will probably be right at a 2.0 after everything is calculated.

So, my question is this. If I want to apply EA next cycle, what kind of LSAT am I going to need to make it into a decent school?

I would strongly consider a GPA retake.

you need a phenomenal LSAT score if you want a bigname school. otherwise, score decent and get into a regional school where you want to live.

GPA retake. If only that were possible.

I'm planning for a a phenomenal LSAT score (but doesn't everyone), but a regional school where I want to live will do just fine.

[cinephile]

How long have you been out of school? A bit of distance from this GPA will help a bit as well.

[hopefulfls]

How long have you been out of school? A bit of distance from this GPA will help a bit as well.

A long time, almost 10 years.

[ScaredWorkedBored]

Eh I'm not a C&F attorney but there's a pretty extensive background check for bar admissions and even relatively simple ones are pretty good at digging up old school attendance, particularly if you got federal financial aid. Also, you would be surprised at what's available and easy to find as "public record."

Schools attended is one of the easiest things to investigate/verify. It's also one of the things that they absolutely will look into because it's an answer to a specific disclosure question. No way OP was getting away with this and it would have screwed him for C&F purposes.

[TheStrand]

How long have you been out of school? A bit of distance from this GPA will help a bit as well.

A long time, almost 10 years.

Oh good god, I didn't know you were 10 years out. Withdrawing sounds better every minute. Write a long addendum about the follies of your youth and the experiences since then and that should help.

[hopefulfls]

How long have you been out of school? A bit of distance from this GPA will help a bit as well.

A long time, almost 10 years.

Oh good god, I didn't know you were 10 years out. Withdrawing sounds better every minute. Write a long addendum about the follies of your youth and the experiences since then and that should help.

Oh Good god? Way to make a guy feel old.

But seriously, I am hoping that an addendum will help.

[TheStrand]

Haha no no I didn't mean like "jesus you're old" I meant, that's kind of a huge factor and could have been mentioned earlier. I mean it's one thing if you're 22 saying you spent the last four years bouncing around schools and not really telling them you are withdrawing, and now you want to be a serious lawyer, but if you've done other things since then, that's something else. I think it can be presented in a pretty different light. Not to mention, waiting another cycle is probably not as big a deal for you as someone who's still in college with some kind of liberal arts degree and nowhere to go besides law school...

[hopefulfls]

Haha no no I didn't mean like "jesus you're old" I meant, that's kind of a huge factor and could have been mentioned earlier. I mean it's one thing if you're 22 saying you spent the last four years bouncing around schools and not really telling them you are withdrawing, and now you want to be a serious lawyer, but if you've done other things since then, that's something else. I think it can be presented in a pretty different light. Not to mention, waiting another cycle is probably not as big a deal for you as someone who's still in college with some kind of liberal arts degree and nowhere to go besides law school...

I was just joking.

Yeah, it doesn't hurt me too much to wait, I already have a good job. I hope that the time, the addendum, and everythign I have done inbetween will help. Plus, I am hoping for a good score on my retake.

[BeeGirl33]

Like I said, not a troll.

And I probably won't go back and challenge anything, because this all happened over the course of about 5 years, and ended almost 10 years ago, so getting things changed probably won't happen.

I know I am going to have to fess up if I want a chance to be a lawyer.

The question is just do I withdraw the current apps and just be truthful next cycle, or do I leave the apps and be ready to explain when the inevitable questions come.

Just wanted to let you know of my situation. 1) I too dropped out mid-semester from School A and got two Fs as a result. 3 years later, wishing to return to complete my degree, I appealed to the Academic Standing council at School A and argued to have them changed to permanent "Incompletes." They agreed after two appeals. 2) Took four classes at School B just to keep my brain active after dropping out of School A. Due to sudden travel required by work, dropped a class prior to completion and got an Incomplete. Didn't realize that the Incomplete at this school wasn't permanent. Just ordered transcript last month and saw the F. Keep in mind it is now 13 years later. Wrote to the Chancellor, Dean and Professor. Explained my situation - that I was applying to law school and this late drop would negatively impact my score. They agreed to me submitting a paper (took me three days to write) and they changed the grade to A. 3) Took a course last Fall at College C - again for fun. Dropped after a month as I was assigned a HUGE project at work. Got a F. Wrote to the President and Department Head and appealed my case. The Dean changed it to a W. I guess what I am saying is - don't give up. If you are smart you will use your persuasion skills and persistency to plead your case. If the Fs were NOT academically deserved, just a result of poor timing, I am convinced most schools won't try to sabotage your law school admission.

[well-hello-there]

Just wanted to let you know of my situation. 1) I too dropped out mid-semester from School A and got two Fs as a result. 3 years later, wishing to return to complete my degree, I appealed to the Academic Standing council at School A and argued to have them changed to permanent "Incompletes." They agreed after two appeals. 2) Took four classes at School B just to keep my brain active after dropping out of School A. Due to sudden travel required by work, dropped a class prior to completion and got an Incomplete. Didn't realize that the Incomplete at this school wasn't permanent. Just ordered transcript last month and saw the F. Keep in mind it is now 13 years later. Wrote to the Chancellor, Dean and Professor. Explained my situation - that I was applying to law school and this late drop would negatively impact my score. They agreed to me submitting a paper (took me three days to write) and they changed the grade to A. 3) Took a course last Fall at College C - again for fun. Dropped after a month as I was assigned a HUGE project at work. Got a F. Wrote to the President and Department Head and appealed my case. The Dean changed it to a W. I guess what I am saying is - don't give up. If you are smart you will use your persuasion skills and persistency to plead your case. If the Fs were NOT academically deserved, just a result of poor timing, I am convinced most schools won't try to sabotage your law school admission.

good info

[hopefulfls]

Updated OP

[zonto]

Respect for honesty OP. --ImageRemoved--

"There is a vague popular belief that lawyers are necessarily dishonest. I say vague, because when we consider to what extent confidence and honors are reposed in and conferred upon lawyers by the people, it appears improbable that their impression of dishonesty is very distinct and vivid. Yet the impression is common, almost universal. Let no young man [or woman] choosing the law for a calling for a moment yield to the popular belief—resolve to be honest at all events; and if in your own judgment you cannot be an honest lawyer, resolve to be honest without being a lawyer." - Abraham Lincoln

[hopefulfls]

One of the schools I applied to, who apparently didn't withdraw my application as requested, sent me my congratulations email. Now I have to call them and tell them politely that I am not interested.

While the answer to this question won't change my decision to do that, I do wonder: Would they have received automatic updates from LSAC about my new transcripts as they came in, or would they have had to know to ask for them?

[cinephile]

One of the schools I applied to, who apparently didn't withdraw my application as requested, sent me my congratulations email. Now I have to call them and tell them politely that I am not interested.

While the answer to this question won't change my decision to do that, I do wonder: Would they have received automatic updates from LSAC about my new transcripts as they came in, or would they have had to know to ask for them?

Why don't you explain the situation to them and see if they will still take you?

[TheStrand]

One of the schools I applied to, who apparently didn't withdraw my application as requested, sent me my congratulations email. Now I have to call them and tell them politely that I am not interested.

While the answer to this question won't change my decision to do that, I do wonder: Would they have received automatic updates from LSAC about my new transcripts as they came in, or would they have had to know to ask for them?

Would have been sent automatically. Possibly they completed their review and added you to the rolls before receiving this data. If you are willing to go there, call and ask them if they received your second transcript, if they did and still wanted you, then great, go for it.

[aspire2more]

Failing to disclose this will almost surely be considered dishonest and a problem for bar admission.

There is no way any bar would ever find out unless you disclosed it to them!

That's not necessarily true, and I don't think I'd go through 3 years of law school just to find out.