Redacted Forum

[fugitivejammer]

Not a strong soft at all I would think.. My gf is a music major so I know a bunch of music types. The worst percussionist in her performance program (so bad, teachers have recommended she leave the program) has played in Carnegie Hall. Nice thing to maybe fit in your PS as a unique experience but I doubt its a super soft.

now if u had just played clarinet instead....

[Curry]

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[trudat15]

Hope you're joking.

I wasn't really - I see that they both hold off on decisions until December which is unfortunate for the OP. I was thinking along the lines of some other T14 schools that give a decision inside a timescale that would allow you to ED at more than one school.

Sorry. I actually thought you meant at the same time. RC fail.

[Curry]

Hope you're joking.

I wasn't really - I see that they both hold off on decisions until December which is unfortunate for the OP. I was thinking along the lines of some other T14 schools that give a decision inside a timescale that would allow you to ED at more than one school.

Sorry. I actually thought you meant at the same time. RC fail.

+1

[vanwinkle]

The problem is my GPA is low for Columbia. My LSAT is above NYU's 75th while at Columbia's median. Right now, my GPA is at NYU's 25th but below Columbia's 25th. Median + 25th percentile at Columbia, even with an ED, might not be enough. Or at least thats what LSN and my innate fear is.

25th and 75th percentiles don't mean nearly as much as medians do. Schools have to report medians to USNWR so they care about maintaining their medians. What tends to really matter overall is that you be at/above one median; that gets you in the door and looked at. Not too many people are above both medians, so you're going to be competing against all the other people who're at your LSAT level, and based on how many people with at least that LSAT score that they need.

Other people with higher GPAs will probably look better at first, but if they get past that first step of numbers and go, "Okay, this person has a high enough LSAT to look at, what next?" then you might win them over with your PS and your softs. Median-or-higher LSAT + strong softs + ED could be enough to push you over.

I think it really comes down to what your LSAT score really is. Columbia's median (172) and NYU's 75th (173) are not the same thing, and you say you're above NYU's 75th which would be a 174+. Looking at LSN for last year, the lowest 172 that Columbia took was a 3.6, but they took some high 3.5's with 173's, and a 3.49/174. Every single LSAT point makes a difference, because the higher your LSAT the greater your odds of acceptance.

If you have a 174/3.5 I think you could possibly get into Columbia ED. If you're 172/3.5 I think it's damn near impossible. That's just basing things on LSN.

[trudat15]

I suspect this would be a fairly strong soft for you, but the problem with softs are that they really only act as tiebreakers; they have to already like you based on your numbers enough that a "soft" would help them pick you over someone else. Not only that, but lots and lots of people with "strong softs" are applying to the top law schools. So while this might be strong I don't think it's stronger than a lot of the other applicants they're probably getting. Your PS might help it stand out more, though; a lot will just depend on how well-written your PS is.

The good news is you have a strong LSAT score, so that works in your favor. If I'm reading this right your LSAT should be just above median for Columbia, so I don't see an ED there being unreasonable. It's a longer shot than NYU, but I think you might get into NYU RD. If you're willing to gamble at all, I'd ED Columbia. If you really, really want to make sure you're attending one of these schools next fall and want the safe choice, I'd ED to NYU.

The problem is my GPA is low for Columbia. My LSAT is above NYU's 75th while at Columbia's median. Right now, my GPA is at NYU's 25th but below Columbia's 25th. Median + 25th percentile at Columbia, even with an ED, might not be enough. Or at least thats what LSN and my innate fear is.

Are you sure you're looking at the correct numbers?

NYU's 25th GPA is 3.6 and Columbia's is 3.61
NYU's LSAT 75th is 175 and Columbia's Median is 172.

Just say your numbers and it'll make things a lot easier.

[Curry]

.

[trudat15]

I already did. And they are in my profile.

Gpa is a 3.6, LSAT is a 173.

Sorry about that, I suck at reading.

Medians (class of 2013):
Columbia 3.72 / 172................(0, 0)
NYU 3.71 / 172......................(-.01, +1)

You're just above both medians in terms of LSAT, but the 75ths are 175 this year I believe, so you're no longer above NYU's 75th LSAT

Though this may change next year (NYU's jump this year was pretty drastic as far as the 75th is concerned)

But in any case, last year's Columbia's ED results around your numbers:

http://columbia.lawschoolnumbers.com/ap ... =3&type=jd

Seems like you have a pretty decent shot. No outright rejects, 2 WL and the rest accept.

[Curry]

I already did. And they are in my profile.

Gpa is a 3.6, LSAT is a 173.

Sorry about that, I suck at reading.

Medians (class of 2013):
Columbia 3.72 / 172................(0, 0)
NYU 3.71 / 172......................(-.01, +1)

You're just above both medians in terms of LSAT, but the 75ths are 175 this year I believe, so you're no longer above NYU's 75th LSAT

Though this may change next year (NYU's jump this year was pretty drastic as far as the 75th is concerned)

But in any case, last year's Columbia's ED results around your numbers:

http://columbia.lawschoolnumbers.com/ap ... =3&type=jd

Seems like you have a pretty decent shot. No outright rejects, 2 WL and the rest accept.

NYU had a 175 median last year?! where did you find that?

[IAFG]

No outright rejects, 2 WL

this doesn't mean anything since CLS hates rejecting people and WLs anyone with a pulse

[incompetentia]

To reiterate what others have said: Something like this is likely great essay fodder but by itself is middling at best in terms of boosting your chances.
Think of how many living people have performed at Carnegie Hall. There are much rarer things, although it is still afforded some amount of prestige. As a 3-instrument person (piano major + violin + attempts at clari) I understand where you're coming from, but I'd hazard that the performance by itself doesn't mean terribly much with respect to this process.

The kinds of softs that make up for low numbers are those which are both relevant and exceedingly rare; this is probably not close to the top in either. Your numbers are still good enough though to get into a decent school (and get some cash offers from some decent schools).

[vanwinkle]

But in any case, last year's Columbia's ED results around your numbers:

http://columbia.lawschoolnumbers.com/ap ... =3&type=jd

Seems like you have a pretty decent shot. No outright rejects, 2 WL and the rest accept.

This. 173/3.6 is very possible if you ED to Columbia.

[Curry]

But in any case, last year's Columbia's ED results around your numbers:

http://columbia.lawschoolnumbers.com/ap ... =3&type=jd

Seems like you have a pretty decent shot. No outright rejects, 2 WL and the rest accept.

This. 173/3.6 is very possible if you ED to Columbia.

This gives me more hope that I thought was possible. I just dont want to be shut out of CCN.

[2014]

I would ED to Columbia. You are very unlikely to get in RD and better than even chance to get in ED. NYU I'd say your odds are fine RD and you don't really need the ED to push you over the edge.

[trudat15]

NYU had a 175 median last year?! where did you find that?

Not Median. 175 for their 75th LSAT. On their website.

[Curry]

Where is this? I can't find it.

[trudat15]

No outright rejects, 2 WL

this doesn't mean anything since CLS hates rejecting people and WLs anyone with a pulse

Depending on what those two meant by WL deferral (if they got rolled over to RD or if they are going next year) - out of six applicants, 4 got in, and 2 got WL-differed - which is a pretty good indication that OP has a good shot ED, even if those WL-D means they're out.

[Curry]

I'm also scared that my age will be a factor. I will only be 20 when I apply and 21 when I first enter. That puts me at four years younger than the median age at either school.

[trudat15]

Where is this? I can't find it.

http://www.law.nyu.edu/admissions/jdadm ... /index.htm

Their median went up one point last class, and their 75th jumped 2 points I think.

[ahduth]

I'm also scared that my age will be a factor. I will only be 20 when I apply and 21 when I first enter. That puts me at four years younger than the median age at either school.

I wouldn't be quite as worried about admissions, as OCI.

[Curry]

I should be 22 when OCI rolls around. Will it really be that much of a problem?

[ahduth]

I should be 22 when OCI rolls around. Will it really be that much of a problem?

I haven't done OCI of course, so others would be able to speak to that more cogently than I. What I can say, is that in my experience, when I've interviewed fresh college graduates, they've sometimes have seemed excessively nervous, excessively cocky, or excessively disinterested. Certainly not always, but some people just... don't like interviewing, or at least it doesn't come naturally to them.

OCI seems to be 90% about fit, so as long as you're "comfortable in your own skin," so to speak, I think you'll be fine. The process seems mostly to be about finding people with whom they are comfortable working long hours, since everyone's credentials are very easily parameterized. I could be completely off base, but I feel like you've got class rank, clinics and such, journals, and the rest is fit, fit, fit.

I know that schools sometimes look for work experience. Northwestern in particular seems to have had success with post-graduation placement by building this thinking into their recruitment process. In the end however, if you love working with the law, I'd think that would come through in the interview, and that's the important part.

[Curry]

I should be 22 when OCI rolls around. Will it really be that much of a problem?

I haven't done OCI of course, so others would be able to speak to that more cogently than I. What I can say, is that in my experience, when I've interviewed fresh college graduates, they've sometimes have seemed excessively nervous, excessively cocky, or excessively disinterested. Certainly not always, but some people just... don't like interviewing, or at least it doesn't come naturally to them.

OCI seems to be 90% about fit, so as long as you're "comfortable in your own skin," so to speak, I think you'll be fine. The process seems mostly to be about finding people with whom they are comfortable working long hours, since everyone's credentials are very easily parameterized. I could be completely off base, but I feel like you've got class rank, clinics and such, journals, and the rest is fit, fit, fit.

I know that schools sometimes look for work experience. Northwestern in particular seems to have had success with post-graduation placement by building this thinking into their recruitment process. In the end however, if you love working with the law, I'd think that would come through in the interview, and that's the important part.

And like most people who would respond to this, I think I fit the bill. I don't know how far that goes all things considered. That being said, I think I'm pretty comfortable in my own skin. I'm not cocky, nor nervous, and I have good contacts with various biglaw firms in the area I want to work in. I hope my age doesn't count against me. Hopefully they look for brains over how long you've been around.

[IAFG]

I'm not cocky... Hopefully they look for brains over how long you've been around.

Uhh... Well, to a point they do, but since you are up against other CCN students, is that really what you want?

[Curry]

I'm not cocky... Hopefully they look for brains over how long you've been around.

Uhh... Well, to a point they do, but since you are up against other CCN students, is that really what you want?

What does this mean?