List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians Forum

[im_blue]

Duke
2010:
3.68 / 3.80 / 3.90
168 / 170 / 171

2009:
3.60 / 3.76 / 3.84
167 / 169 / 171

Georgetown
2010:
3.42 / 3.67 / 3.82
168 / 170 / 172

2009:
3.42 / 3.68 / 3.81
168 / 170 / 172

[im_blue]

NYU 25th/75th
2010:
3.6 / 3.9
169 / 175

2009:
3.6 / 3.9
169 / 173

[im_blue]

UNC

c/o 2013: 3.5, 163

c/o 2012: 3.6, 162

Source? UNC's c/o 2012 numbers were 3.58 / 162, so that 3.5 GPA is probably rounded too.

[vsl89]

Are people reconsidering where to apply and what is a good target now in light of these new numbers?

[rundoxierun]

Are people reconsidering where to apply and what is a good target now in light of these new numbers?

Considering that all the changes so far are marginal, I would hope not.

[Unemployed]

Whoa NYU!

[vsl89]

Whoa NYU!

+1. This one is making me nervous.

[Hannibal]

Whoa NYU!

+1. This one is making me nervous.

+1 and +1. If I score really high on my LSAT I want it to be rare as possible.

[kazu]

Whoa NYU!

+1. This one is making me nervous.

+1 and +1. If I score really high on my LSAT I want it to be rare as possible.

Wtf... how did their 75% jump 2 points???

[Grizz]

I look forward to seeing this thread evolve, and to see how the t14 landscape has shifted in the last year.

If it does, the change will probably be inconsequential. Rankings have been fairly unchanged over a significant span of time.

[Marionberry]

Does anyone think this might lead to increased LSAT whoring on the part of schools that haven't been historically splitter friendly? Like, for example, T20s that are in danger of getting usurped by other T20s?

[St.Remy]

NYU 25th/75th
2010:
3.6 / 3.9
169 / 175

2009:
3.6 / 3.9
169 / 173

I'm not sure that this is even possible. Even with the upswing in LSAT takers over the past couple years the number of applicants who got a 175 or better is less than a thousand people (calculated based on the number of takers and a 175 being a top 99.4 percentile score). Even if we are assuming that every single person who got over a 175 decided on law school, a fact which I know firsthand is false, NYU would have to snatch up a huge proportion of the 175+ pie to get this statistic in place. Because of NYU's class size they would have to get over 10% of everyone who scored 175 or up, when Columbia, Harvard, and Yale has to take MORE than a third of the 175+ group to just maintain their averages. Is this possible? Yes. Is it possible to do that while also not sacrificing ANY average GPA? I don't think so unless some of the other schools see their 75th drop (A situation that I wouldn't cry over).

I look forward to seeing this thread evolve, and to see how the t14 landscape has shifted in the last year.

If it does, the change will probably be inconsequential. Rankings have been fairly unchanged over a significant span of time.

I didn't mean the landscape of the schools in terms rankings but rather which among them I'll be able to get into (though if this NYU 75th increase is true then well damn, I guess Chicago can kiss its top 5 spot goodbye again).

[lawschool2014]

Northwestern's GPA is exceptionally high. I am curious if candidates for the JD/MBA program included in the statistic (if so, then I would assume that the GPA median would be lower)

[ajmanyjah]

Bah I knew that, but my general point still stands. This could the the acceptance of literally ONE 2.5/172 war hero that wasn't in the mix pushing it up (of course it probably ISN'T because of the size of incoming classes) but are people seriously reading into 1 point median changes?

Mathematically yes, but practically no. Assuming a law school is maximizing its medians effectively every year, it would need to increase the LSAT of a significant portion of the middle of the class to raise its LSAT median.

Considering the yield of any non Yale school, I'm gonna go with random variation being the larger part.

[Kswizzie]

I'm not sure that this is even possible. Even with the upswing in LSAT takers over the past couple years the number of applicants who got a 175 or better is less than a thousand people (calculated based on the number of takers and a 175 being a top 99.4 percentile score). Even if we are assuming that every single person who got over a 175 decided on law school, a fact which I know firsthand is false, NYU would have to snatch up a huge proportion of the 175+ pie to get this statistic in place. Because of NYU's class size they would have to get over 10% of everyone who scored 175 or up, when Columbia, Harvard, and Yale has to take MORE than a third of the 175+ group to just maintain their averages. Is this possible? Yes. Is it possible to do that while also not sacrificing ANY average GPA? I don't think so unless some of the other schools see their 75th drop (A situation that I wouldn't cry over).

I'm just curious how this all went down not too long ago a 168 with a solid gpa was good enough to land you a couple t14 acceptances when now it is below median at Vandy. Has the amount of applicants really risen enough to justify these rising medians? Or has everyone just given up to lsat whoring?

[2ofspades]

Hmm has anyone noticed that, if you click on "LSAC Resources Data" below Current Data and Statistics on the (newly upgraded) lsac.org site, the # of applicants was at its height during 2002~2005, and about 10,000 more per year than the last application cycle (about 100,000 ABA applicants in fall 2005 as opposed to 86,600 last year)? Was there a significant median bump then as well?

Has there been a cycle in recent memory that was less harsh across the board than the cycle that preceded it?

I'm just curious how this all went down not too long ago a 168 with a solid gpa was good enough to land you a couple t14 acceptances when now it is below median at Vandy. Has the amount of applicants really risen enough to justify these rising medians? Or has everyone just given up to lsat whoring?

I don't think the median jumps we are seeing now are solely due either to an increase in total applicants over the past 2 years or to numbers-gaming on the part of schools. IIRC it was just in the past few years that LSAC decided to calculate schools' LSAT medians using applicants' highest scores rather than their average scores, and that's when most schools chose not to average in evaluative review. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) I think much of the median increases taking place over the past few years simply reflect the resulting, increasing tendency of strong applicants to restest, creating a broader availability of top scores. In fact, the data posted by LSAC shows that in the late 2000s when the number of applicants was declining, the number of tests administered per applicant increased.

[rundoxierun]

Wow.. didnt realize NYU's class size is as big as it is. We def need someone to backup the NYU numbers.

[im_blue]

Michigan
2010:
3.73 / 169
6,400 apps (18.4% increase)

2009:
3.70 / 169
5,407 apps

Source: Page 18 of JD Viewbook

Michigan has been stuck at 169 since 2007, and they're virtually tied with Vandy now.

[0L Hoping for 1]

I didn't mean the landscape of the schools in terms rankings but rather which among them I'll be able to get into (though if this NYU 75th increase is true then well damn, I guess Chicago can kiss its top 5 spot goodbye again).

I might be bias, but I dont see that happening

[Kswizzie]

Michigan
2010:
3.73 / 169
6,400 apps (18.4% increase)

2009:
3.70 / 169
5,407 apps

Source: Page 18 of JD Viewbook

Michigan has been stuck at 169 since 2007, and they're virtually tied with Vandy now.

Just slipped below both medians at my top choice

[rayiner]

Michigan
2010:
3.73 / 169
6,400 apps (18.4% increase)

2009:
3.70 / 169
5,407 apps

Source: Page 18 of JD Viewbook

Michigan has been stuck at 169 since 2007, and they're virtually tied with Vandy now.

YHSCNCPVDN = new T10.

[St.Remy]

YHSCNCPVDN = new T10.

Berkeley's numbers have been poor compared to other similar ranking schools for a while now, so I'm betting they get their spot based on per-capita expenditure and not GPA/LSAT. Therefore I think they will stay top ten. Additionally I believe NU's huge GPA bump must be rounded or something, so I wouldn't expect it to actually break t10.

[rayiner]

YHSCNCPVDN = new T10.

Berkeley's numbers have been poor compared to other similar ranking schools for a while now, so I'm betting they get their spot based on per-capita expenditure and not GPA/LSAT. Therefore I think they will stay top ten. Additionally I believe NU's huge GPA bump must be rounded or something, so I wouldn't expect it to actually break t10.

The numbers won't impact the rankings because at this level it's mostly expenditure/capita and peer rep that decides the ranking. I'm just pointing out that numbers-wise Michigan and Berkeley are TTTs in decline.

As for rounding, why would you say that? Duke posted a 0.04 GPA bump and a 1 point LSAT bump after all. It seems weird to just single out NU for rounding...

[Dany]

NYU 25th/75th
2010:
3.6 / 3.9
169 / 175

2009:
3.6 / 3.9
169 / 173

Jesus Christ.

I didn't think I had to worry too much about CCN with a 173. Color me worried.

[4102011]

Jesus Christ.

I didn't think I had to worry too much about CCN with a 173. Color me worried.

Srsly me too. Because what we really need is more worrying during that fun waiting period. Eeep!