Berkeley's Fall 2010 Medians Drop Forum

[Hannibal]

The one time I visited the Stanford campus, it rained in May. I've been to the Cal campus about 10 times, the weather has varied as you might expect it.

Forgive me for assuming that Palo Alto weather was like the rest of the coast's weather.

[jay115]

The one time I visited the Stanford campus, it rained in May. I've been to the Cal campus about 10 times, the weather has varied as you might expect it.

Forgive me for assuming that Palo Alto weather was like the rest of the coast's weather.

My point is that there is no such thing as a uniform "coast weather." Seattle is on the same coast as L.A., yet I don't think anyone who has visited both cities would say that they have uniform, or even similar, weather/climate.

[Hannibal]

Well, Seattle and LA are pretty damn far apart. I live in Santa Cruz, and the weather here is pretty foggy. SF is foggy. The idea that Palo Alto isn't foggy in the middle of the two is pretty strange.

[oscarthegrouch]

Pretty sure this is the first time a t-14's medians have dropped in at least 10 years, but damn, wonder why.

As for the post above, Palo Alto isn't foggy at all compared to SF and Berkeley.

[jay115]

Well, Seattle and LA are pretty damn far apart. I live in Santa Cruz, and the weather here is pretty foggy. SF is foggy. The idea that Palo Alto isn't foggy in the middle of the two is pretty strange.

Visit Palo Alto sometime. When you actually visit the Bay Area, you'll encounter the fog bank - which keeps SF (and close surrounding areas, including Berk) foggy. The fog bank emanates from the SF bay - but ends somewhere in Daly City (about 10 minutes south of SF). Palo Alto is about 30 minutes south of San Francisco. I don't know what what causes Santa Cruz to be foggy (I've never been), but I assume it's not the SF bay because of the SF fog bank limits. Thus, if the fogginess of both areas emanate from different sources, then no, it wouldn't be strange for areas in between to not be foggy.

Reexamine your logic. A parallel argument is that Seattle is rainy, and Portland, Maine is rainy - therefore, all cities in between Seattle and Portland must be rainy.

[jay115]

Berkeley has a law school? I thought amy made that up

You're username was unbanned!

[im_blue]

Pretty sure this is the first time a t-14's medians have dropped in at least 10 years, but damn, wonder why.

They better watch out for UCLA, which had 2009 medians of 3.75/168 compared to Berkeley's 3.83/168.

[Total Litigator]

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[Total Litigator]

They better watch out for UCLA, which had 2009 medians of 3.75/168 compared to Berkeley's 3.83/168.

T15?

[rundoxierun]

Pretty sure this is the first time a t-14's medians have dropped in at least 10 years, but damn, wonder why.

As for the post above, Palo Alto isn't foggy at all compared to SF and Berkeley.

Using myself as an example, UCB was originally my top choice law school going into this upcoming cycle. Unfortunately, Tuition Increases(pretty much nullifying the benefit of easy in-state residency)+Reputation for being stingy with merit aid+shaky Cali legal market has forced me to move UCB far down my list. Only way I could even dream of actually attending UCB would be if UMich/UVA gave me a full scholly and UCB approved a match.

[worldtraveler]

Law school is expensive pretty much everywhere. I find it really funny that people taking on $180k plus in loans suddenly say "OMG! Berkeley would cost me 10k more than a peer school! Cannot do it!"

[Hannibal]

Well, Seattle and LA are pretty damn far apart. I live in Santa Cruz, and the weather here is pretty foggy. SF is foggy. The idea that Palo Alto isn't foggy in the middle of the two is pretty strange.

Visit Palo Alto sometime. When you actually visit the Bay Area, you'll encounter the fog bank - which keeps SF (and close surrounding areas, including Berk) foggy. The fog bank emanates from the SF bay - but ends somewhere in Daly City (about 10 minutes south of SF). Palo Alto is about 30 minutes south of San Francisco. I don't know what what causes Santa Cruz to be foggy (I've never been), but I assume it's not the SF bay because of the SF fog bank limits. Thus, if the fogginess of both areas emanate from different sources, then no, it wouldn't be strange for areas in between to not be foggy.

Reexamine your logic. A parallel argument is that Seattle is rainy, and Portland, Maine is rainy - therefore, all cities in between Seattle and Portland must be rainy.

Haha, wow. I guess your "I don't want to bicker" thing was a reflection of you holding back your desire? Look back what I said first: it was a question. Must have struck a nerve. Sorry for thinking something about Palo Alto.

And don't be ridiculous, you know the difference between SF and Santa Cruz and that extreme.

[5ky]

Law school is expensive pretty much everywhere. I find it really funny that people taking on $180k plus in loans suddenly say "OMG! Berkeley would cost me 10k more than a peer school! Cannot do it!"

It's 7-10k more expensive PER YEAR over peer schools, and as previously said, is far more stingy with merit aid. So 20-30k more in raw terms, and that's before taking into consideration MVP's higher proclivity to give merit aid than Berkeley.

I mean, argue all you want that Berkeley is a better school, in a better location, etc, but don't try to argue the cost difference is negligible.

[Veyron]

Berkeley = TTT in decline. Sorry about YTP lack of government funding bros.

[vsl89]

Quick question -- when do most T14s release their Fall 2010 numbers? Those numbers should be what guide prospective applications in determining the viability of their candidacy, correct? (As in, current medians, while helpful, are not as accurate for weighing yourself against as will be the medians of the class just admitted.)

[jtemp320]

Normally I'd think you'd be in good shape w/ an LSAT on the median and GPA at the 75th percentile from a T20 undergrad and good softs but for Berkeley I have a feeling that is not necessarily the case - especially non-URM.

Anyone else share my suspicion on this? That median LSAT just looks too good to be true.

[jtemp320]

PS the bay area gets foggy and damp - but hey I think most people would take that over winter in Ithaca or Chicago anyday.

Yes its a shame that California's budget is such a mess and UC tuition has gone up so much but I still love you Boalt!

[bk1]

Pretty sure this is the first time a t-14's medians have dropped in at least 10 years, but damn, wonder why.

I would assume it is because their high ranked applicants that they decided to attend other schools. My thoughts would be any combination of:

1. Attending HYSCCN at sticker over Cal with a scholly due to increased job prospects.
2. Increasing tuition cost at Cal thus choosing something like MVP instead.
3. SF/CA legal market doing poorly in comparison to others.
4. CA's budget woes.

[094320]

..

[bilbobaggins]

The differences are not necessarily statistically significant.

[270910]

The differences are not necessarily statistically significant.

Statistical significance is a measure used to determine whether or not an observed measurement based on a sample is likely to be representative of the group. Berkeley released its median data in 2009, and it did so in 2010. The figures are not based on a random sample, but rather the entire population of enrolled Boalt students. Thus the term 'statistical significance' has no application to this situation.

[bilbobaggins]

The differences are not necessarily statistically significant.

Statistical significance is a measure used to determine whether or not an observed measurement based on a sample is likely to be representative of the group. Berkeley released its median data in 2009, and it did so in 2010. The figures are not based on a random sample, but rather the entire population of enrolled Boalt students. Thus the term 'statistical significance' has no application to this situation.

Or rather, the movement might be fairly random. You'd have to look at numbers over the next 5 years and the last 5 to determine any sort of trend or causal factors. The difference in these numbers is so small, it would be impossible to tell if they moved by chance (a few people who accepted last year didn't accept this year, numbers-wise, or a few lower numbers were admitted this year, etc.).

Also - Boalt received very little funding from the state before the economic downturn and the rise in tuition, while a little steeper than originally planned, was planned before the downturn.

[The Brainalist]

The differences are not necessarily statistically significant.

Statistical significance is a measure used to determine whether or not an observed measurement based on a sample is likely to be representative of the group. Berkeley released its median data in 2009, and it did so in 2010. The figures are not based on a random sample, but rather the entire population of enrolled Boalt students. Thus the term 'statistical significance' has no application to this situation.

Or rather, the movement might be fairly random. You'd have to look at numbers over the next 5 years and the last 5 to determine any sort of trend or causal factors. The difference in these numbers is so small, it would be impossible to tell if they moved by chance (a few people who accepted last year didn't accept this year, numbers-wise, or a few lower numbers were admitted this year, etc.).

Also - Boalt received very little funding from the state before the economic downturn and the rise in tuition, while a little steeper than originally planned, was planned before the downturn.

I think you are misusing the idea of statistics here. It isn't as if each student is a flip of a coin and any deviation from 50% is just due to the number of times you flipped the coin (again, sample size). We are looking at an entire population, and it simply is what it is.

[emilybeth]

ITT: A bunch of kids who got rejected or will get rejected from Berkeley attempt to gloat about something few people beyond the 0L life stage give a shit about.

[suplex]

Well, Seattle and LA are pretty damn far apart. I live in Santa Cruz, and the weather here is pretty foggy. SF is foggy. The idea that Palo Alto isn't foggy in the middle of the two is pretty strange.

Palo Alto is not as foggy because it sits on the rainshadow side of the Santa Cruz Mountains.