Chances of getting into school with prison time Forum

[czelede]

Prison aside I think a 2.7 puts you out of the running at the top 50 schools, unless paired with a 170+ on the LSAT. You really need to get a score the compensates for the sub-3.0 GPA.

You should make the prison time and subsequent struggles a central theme in your personal statement, there is no hiding something like that so you might as well own it. By any chance did you injure someone, explaining the heavy sentence? If so, I think it becomes a completely different thing and potentially impossible to overcome.

I'm not so sure about that... looking at LSP, he has a decent shot at a lot of top 50 schools with 165 and 2.7. Besides, LSP tends to underestimate high LSAT splitters. Though, the OP has a BIG negative soft going against him - jail time. I have no clue how that would affect him, but a 2.7/165 has a very good chance at some T1 schools.

Since when is a 2.7/165 a high LSAT splitter?

And I think LSP tends to overestimate High LSAT/Low GPA splitters, because they discount for GPA floors.

[094320]

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[TommyK]

Prison aside I think a 2.7 puts you out of the running at the top 50 schools, unless paired with a 170+ on the LSAT. You really need to get a score the compensates for the sub-3.0 GPA.

You should make the prison time and subsequent struggles a central theme in your personal statement, there is no hiding something like that so you might as well own it. By any chance did you injure someone, explaining the heavy sentence? If so, I think it becomes a completely different thing and potentially impossible to overcome.

I'm not so sure about that... looking at LSP, he has a decent shot at a lot of top 50 schools with 165 and 2.7. Besides, LSP tends to underestimate high LSAT splitters. Though, the OP has a BIG negative soft going against him - jail time. I have no clue how that would affect him, but a 2.7/165 has a very good chance at some T1 schools.

Since when is a 2.7/165 a high LSAT splitter?

And I think LSP tends to overestimate High LSAT/Low GPA splitters, because they discount for GPA floors.

Eh, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'll defer to the wisdom of the TLS crowds on this one. I would view 165/2.7 as a high LSAt splitter with 165 > 90th percentile, and 2.7 probably well below the median of applicants. I didn't realize there was a concrete definition. Would love to know what the objective definition if there is one. I thought it was an applicant with two numbers that would make the adcomms say, "uhh, what's up with that?"

[czelede]

Prison aside I think a 2.7 puts you out of the running at the top 50 schools, unless paired with a 170+ on the LSAT. You really need to get a score the compensates for the sub-3.0 GPA.

You should make the prison time and subsequent struggles a central theme in your personal statement, there is no hiding something like that so you might as well own it. By any chance did you injure someone, explaining the heavy sentence? If so, I think it becomes a completely different thing and potentially impossible to overcome.

I'm not so sure about that... looking at LSP, he has a decent shot at a lot of top 50 schools with 165 and 2.7. Besides, LSP tends to underestimate high LSAT splitters. Though, the OP has a BIG negative soft going against him - jail time. I have no clue how that would affect him, but a 2.7/165 has a very good chance at some T1 schools.

Since when is a 2.7/165 a high LSAT splitter?

And I think LSP tends to overestimate High LSAT/Low GPA splitters, because they discount for GPA floors.

Eh, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'll defer to the wisdom of the TLS crowds on this one. I would view 165/2.7 as a high LSAt splitter with 165 > 90th percentile, and 2.7 probably well below the median of applicants. I didn't realize there was a concrete definition. Would love to know what the objective definition if there is one. I thought it was an applicant with two numbers that would make the adcomms say, "uhh, what's up with that?"

In general I would say that you are considered a splitter at a particular school if your LSAT is greater than the 75th percentile and your GPA is less than the 25th percentile. By this definition, OP is not a splitter at any of the schools he mentioned - just a very long shot, as his LSAT is not close to the 75th percentile and his GPA is way below 25th percentile. In fact, a 165 only puts you (barely) above the 75th percentile at 11 of the Tier 1 schools, hardly >90th percentile.

I think the TLS perception of splitters is largely based on the T14. So for here: splitter = >170 LSAT, <3.4 GPA (although I've seen <3.5 argued on the basis that the 25% at most T14s start around there). Medium/hard splitter = >175/<3.3. Extreme splitters = >175/<3.0.

[yepyep]

Yes there was injury involved, though not in any way life threatening. Without getting into details, the reason I got the time was because of who it happened to. (not a child)

I think this does change things. You seem to be hinting you injured a police officer (?) or something of the sort. I think your only shot is to show how sincere contrition has affected your life (rehab, volunteer work, education, etc). Just as an outside prospective, you seem to feel like you were railroaded and mistreated by the justice system. While it is a stretch to buy from anyone who wants to go to law school, to hear it from someone who injured an innocent person is a little maddening. I am not saying that is in anyway how you feel, just that you run the risk of appearing to feel that way on paper. You're going to need the admissions officer to sympathize with you, and I think wholly embracing responsibility and focusing on how you have changed (not on prison guards or unfair jail time).

I don't mention anything being unfair to me in my personal statement and in no way am I trying to deflect blame or say that I was not guilty. There isn't one thing in my essay suggesting I am not completely sincere. I never focused on prison guards or unfair jail time, someone asked me about my incarceration on this post. I have over 500 hours of volunteer time since I got out and have not had a drink or drug in over 3 years and have passed a 120 day drug screening program. I'm not a bad dude, I just made a mistake over three years ago and I'm trying to turn my life around. That being said, I paid my dues to society that were given to me and never complained. I plead guilty and took my time like a man. That is basically what I'm trying to get across to the adcomms. I am also a different person now than when I got a 2.7 in college which was over 4 years ago as well. I think my statement reflects this transformation.

Also, in response to an earlier post, my credit is very good, and I'm not all that concerned about the cost. I just want to get into the best school possible. With or without jail time I would not get much money anyway, considering my parents income. Which sucks, because I'm paying for this myself. From what I understood, loans I can get, but grants I can't.

[TommyK]

In general I would say that you are considered a splitter at a particular school if your LSAT is greater than the 75th percentile and your GPA is less than the 25th percentile. By this definition, OP is not a splitter at any of the schools he mentioned - just a very long shot, as his LSAT is not close to the 75th percentile and his GPA is way below 25th percentile. In fact, a 165 only puts you (barely) above the 75th percentile at 11 of the Tier 1 schools, hardly >90th percentile.

I think the TLS perception of splitters is largely based on the T14. So for here: splitter = >170 LSAT, <3.4 GPA (although I've seen <3.5 argued on the basis that the 25% at most T14s start around there). Medium/hard splitter = >175/<3.3. Extreme splitters = >175/<3.0.

Good info. I meant 165 > 90th percentile of LSAT takers. Seeing as 2.7 is almost certainly in the the lower half, probably lower quarter of law school applicants (though, i really have no actual data to back this up... Just drawing inferences based on the fact that I haven't seen any schools regardless of low ranking with a 25th percentile gpa of 2.7) I never really thought of splitter as being relative to the particular school.

I still think a candidate with 165/2.7 would find plenty of acceptances is t50, as he's either at or above the 75th percentile at 20 schools, but I'll cede the point.

[GettingReady2010]

How do you get a felony for that?

[czelede]

In general I would say that you are considered a splitter at a particular school if your LSAT is greater than the 75th percentile and your GPA is less than the 25th percentile. By this definition, OP is not a splitter at any of the schools he mentioned - just a very long shot, as his LSAT is not close to the 75th percentile and his GPA is way below 25th percentile. In fact, a 165 only puts you (barely) above the 75th percentile at 11 of the Tier 1 schools, hardly >90th percentile.

I think the TLS perception of splitters is largely based on the T14. So for here: splitter = >170 LSAT, <3.4 GPA (although I've seen <3.5 argued on the basis that the 25% at most T14s start around there). Medium/hard splitter = >175/<3.3. Extreme splitters = >175/<3.0.

Good info. I meant 165 > 90th percentile of LSAT takers. Seeing as 2.7 is almost certainly in the the lower half, probably lower quarter of law school applicants (though, i really have no actual data to back this up... Just drawing inferences based on the fact that I haven't seen any schools regardless of low ranking with a 25th percentile gpa of 2.7) I never really thought of splitter as being relative to the particular school.

I still think a candidate with 165/2.7 would find plenty of acceptances is t50, as he's either at or above the 75th percentile at 20 schools, but I'll cede the point.

Yeah, you're on the right track with your GPA thought...it will always be in the bottom quarter no matter which school you go to, but unless its paired with an LSAT in the top quarter (top half at minimum) you're just a weaker applicant, not a splitter.

I'm not arguing with you about acceptances at t50 - I think it's definitely possible for him to find some acceptances there (though I don't know that I would say "plenty", as there isn't a single "Strong Consider" on LSP with his numbers in Tier 1); I just think the schools in particular that he mentioned (I mean come on, GW is T25 and BC is T30) are going to be near impossible for him to crack. Also, a lot of schools are just very wary about accepting sub 3.0s in general.