Go All In or Fold? Forum

[Thomas Jefferson]

Well, it's been more than a hobby because I've been earning a living from it for two years. I log hours, and earnings and losses- but only for my own records. I've just never reported as income to the feds. On my taxes, I report it as "gambling winnings", but I only report tournament winnings because the casino keeps tabs and reports tournament wins of over 400$ (or something... not sure about the specific amount).

1. You should be reporting all losses/winnings to the feds. There are certain ways to do this that are better than others. I would hope if you've been playing poker semi-professionally that you are well aware of the various methods.
2. Casinos are only required to report tournament winnings over $5,000, and generally (every casino ever), this is all they report.

How have you played any sort of professional poker and not know this?

+1

I'm actually wondering if not reporting the income would cause you C&F issues

[NU_Jet55]

Well, it's been more than a hobby because I've been earning a living from it for two years. I log hours, and earnings and losses- but only for my own records. I've just never reported as income to the feds. On my taxes, I report it as "gambling winnings", but I only report tournament winnings because the casino keeps tabs and reports tournament wins of over 400$ (or something... not sure about the specific amount).

1. You should be reporting all losses/winnings to the feds. There are certain ways to do this that are better than others. I would hope if you've been playing poker semi-professionally that you are well aware of the various methods.
2. Casinos are only required to report tournament winnings over $5,000, and generally (every casino ever), this is all they report.

How have you played any sort of professional poker and not know this?

+1

I'm actually wondering if not reporting the income would cause you C&F issues

Very true. OP should definitely be careful, but he should be ok based on his likely earnings.

[lonelylenore]

Well, it's been more than a hobby because I've been earning a living from it for two years. I log hours, and earnings and losses- but only for my own records. I've just never reported as income to the feds. On my taxes, I report it as "gambling winnings", but I only report tournament winnings because the casino keeps tabs and reports tournament wins of over 400$ (or something... not sure about the specific amount).

1. You should be reporting all losses/winnings to the feds. There are certain ways to do this that are better than others. I would hope if you've been playing poker semi-professionally that you are well aware of the various methods.
2. Casinos are only required to report tournament winnings over $5,000, and generally (every casino ever), this is all they report.

How have you played any sort of professional poker and not know this?

+1

I'm actually wondering if not reporting the income would cause you C&F issues

Very true. OP should definitely be careful, but he should be ok based on his likely earnings.

I wasn't sure about the exact amount because I had heard different numbers from different people (including casino personnel and a CPA in NJ). and I don't file my own taxes, so the only paper work regarding winnings I’ve provided to my "accountant" (a close friend) has been my tourney winnings (because the casino provides me with a receipt).

I'm thinking I might encounter a problem with C&F, which is why I chose to create a thread on here to hopefully gain a better understanding on how to present this...

Thanks for the input & advice!

[thecilent]

Well, the way I see it, every hand in poker is like a summarized negotiation where people try to represent themselves in the most profitable manner. Further, the object is always to either present your "case" in the most convincing way or to find out the truth about the situation and then exploit it to your advantage... this to me seems quite similar to litigation...

This is sooo cheesy. I would not do your PS like this.

Also, how much are you + since '08? Since you keep logs and whatnot? And what do you play?

[dramaticpaws]

Well, the way I see it, every hand in poker is like a summarized negotiation where people try to represent themselves in the most profitable manner. Further, the object is always to either present your "case" in the most convincing way or to find out the truth about the situation and then exploit it to your advantage... this to me seems quite similar to litigation...

This is sooo cheesy. I would not do your PS like this.

+1 I also thought this was over-the-top and very cheesy.

[TommyK]

I would not list it at all on your resume. I'm in HR/Recruiting, and in my days, I've interviewed a couple of people who had it listed on their resume and it has NEVER been presented in a flattering way.

If you've been enrolled in a school, questions stop there. They see you're enrolled and there are absolutely no questions about gaps in employment.

There is almost no upside in including it.

As an aside, I played a lot while I was in grad school, kept books and was making about $40/hr when the money was easy. (Not great money, but it was enough for beer money and sure beat the hell out of grad school stipends) I learned from personal experience that while there may be a small pocket of people who think it's cool, the vast majority will view you as an immature boy who is looking for an easy buck without any hard work, or a degenerate gambler - neither of these are images you want to portray to the adcomms.

Just my $.02

[lonelylenore]

I would not list it at all on your resume. I'm in HR/Recruiting, and in my days, I've interviewed a couple of people who had it listed on their resume and it has NEVER been presented in a flattering way.

If you've been enrolled in a school, questions stop there. They see you're enrolled and there are absolutely no questions about gaps in employment.

There is almost no upside in including it.

As an aside, I played a lot while I was in grad school, kept books and was making about $40/hr when the money was easy. (Not great money, but it was enough for beer money and sure beat the hell out of grad school stipends) I learned from personal experience that while there may be a small pocket of people who think it's cool, the vast majority will view you as an immature boy who is looking for an easy buck without any hard work, or a degenerate gambler - neither of these are images you want to portray to the adcomms.

Just my $.02

This was actually very insightful & helpful. Thank you.

[lonelylenore]

Well, the way I see it, every hand in poker is like a summarized negotiation where people try to represent themselves in the most profitable manner. Further, the object is always to either present your "case" in the most convincing way or to find out the truth about the situation and then exploit it to your advantage... this to me seems quite similar to litigation...

This is sooo cheesy. I would not do your PS like this.

Also, how much are you + since '08? Since you keep logs and whatnot? And what do you play?

I play 10/20 p/l hold 'em & sometimes 5/10 n/l. Occasionally Omaha (same stakes).

Playing usually around 20-40 hours a week (+ or - depending on the season).

I don't have my records on hand, but since 11-08, I think I'm + around 30K.

And for the record, I wouldn't write my personal statement that way- I was just trying to add what I thought poker might be able to say about law or how it may relate...

[thecilent]

I don't have my records on hand, but since 11-08, I think I'm + around 30K.

That's pretty insane.

I play at the Borgata about 2-3 times a week

[TommyK]

I don't have my records on hand, but since 11-08, I think I'm + around 30K.

That's pretty insane.

I play at the Borgata about 2-3 times a week

Which translates to about $12/hr.

[thecilent]

I don't have my records on hand, but since 11-08, I think I'm + around 30K.

That's pretty insane.

I play at the Borgata about 2-3 times a week

Which translates to about $12/hr.

$12/hr is damn good for almost a two-year span

[NU_Jet55]

I don't have my records on hand, but since 11-08, I think I'm + around 30K.

That's pretty insane.

I play at the Borgata about 2-3 times a week

If you've averaged 30 hrs/wk since 11-08 that means you're making a little more than $11/hr. Playing at those stakes and only making $11/hr, you must be the grinder of grinders.

[thecilent]

I don't have my records on hand, but since 11-08, I think I'm + around 30K.

That's pretty insane.

I play at the Borgata about 2-3 times a week

If you've averaged 30 hrs/wk since 11-08 that means you're making a little more than $11/hr. Playing at those stakes and only making $11/hr, you must be the grinder of grinders.

I think you're underestimating how much of a grind professional poker really is. $11/hr for 1.5+ years is extremely good as a hobby

[NU_Jet55]

I think you're underestimating how much of a grind professional poker really is. $11/hr for 1.5+ years is extremely good as a hobby

Fail.

[thecilent]

I think you're underestimating how much of a grind professional poker really is. $11/hr for 1.5+ years is extremely good as a hobby

Fail.

Making words bigger =/= fail

What I said made sense.

[NU_Jet55]

What I said made sense.

Sure bud....

I realize how much of a grind professional poker is. I'm just saying, if it was me and I was playing 5/10 NL, I would expect a bigger hourly take than one big blind.

[bleaker]

Can't imagine this student left her poker playing out of the resume or essays:

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/05/yale-law ... oker-star/

Just get a good LSAT and GPA to match, and Yale is...still a crapshoot. But hey, there you go.

[NU_Jet55]

Can't imagine this student left her poker playing out of the resume or essays:

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/05/yale-law ... oker-star/

Just get a good LSAT and GPA to match, and Yale is...still a crapshoot. But hey, there you go.

Credited, but OP =/= Vanessa fucking Selbst. She was world class player with a bracelet on her wrist before she even took the LSAT.

[pandorasfox]

OP,
Depending on the school (religious or not), gambling might pose an ethical issue.. like brigham young probably wouldn't appreciate it... but it might make for a unique application. Just avoid sounding too much like you watch the movie Rounders everyday. Also, playing in a casino is definately more reputable than being an underground hustler. avoid mentioning any elicit activity.

and find a better way to describe it than "semi-pro". Sounds a little cheesy.

anyway, try to make it into a unique PS (or a cool 250 for yale) if you can do it without sounding like a gambler

but i wouldn't put it on a resume unless you had tax info on it. It just seems kind of seedy or something.

good luck

Ah, and here we see the prime example of "know-it-all syndrome": some arrogant jackhole who thinks his opinion is better than everyone's for no good reason...



I stand by my earlier comment, OP. Good luck.

[lonelylenore]

What I said made sense.

Sure bud....

I realize how much of a grind professional poker is. I'm just saying, if it was me and I was playing 5/10 NL, I would expect a bigger hourly take than one big blind.

Breaking down less than 2 years work into an hourly rate is moronic. There were weeks where I didn't play at all, and weeks where I lost a couple of big pots which put a decent dent into my earnings. For a novice, I'm quite proud of the fact that after two years, I've been able to live on my earnings, even though I live quite simply (no highroller lifestyle for me).

And if it were you, and you could do so well, why are you lurking around on TLS forums being negative when you could be making a good living grinding it out? If you ever wanna put your money where your [mouth] is, I've got a table for you.

[lonelylenore]

I don't have my records on hand, but since 11-08, I think I'm + around 30K.

That's pretty insane.

I play at the Borgata about 2-3 times a week

I play the borgata on fri & sat mostly. If you sit at the right table on a weekend, you’re almost guaranteed a big, drunk calling station with a wad of hundreds waiting to rebuy.

On week days, I used to play the trop, but it's a wasteland now- so I'm at the Taj, SB, or Harrahs depending on where the action is.

PM me if you wanna talk more about it! It's always nice to know another AC grinder. We are too few these days.

[jrobby6]

Harrahs has plenty of donks dumping their chips away. However, I usually play cash games at local places.

Nonetheless, I advise that you shy away from poker as your focal point in your ps. Maybe tailor it in somehow but don't make it your central point on why you want to go to law school.

[NU_Jet55]

Breaking down less than 2 years work into an hourly rate is moronic. There were weeks where I didn't play at all, and weeks where I lost a couple of big pots which put a decent dent into my earnings. For a novice, I'm quite proud of the fact that after two years, I've been able to live on my earnings, even though I live quite simply (no highroller lifestyle for me).

And if it were you, and you could do so well, why are you lurking around on TLS forums being negative when you could be making a good living grinding it out? If you ever wanna put your money where your [mouth] is, I've got a table for you.

I'm not hating man; That's awesome that poker helped you pay your way through school-I did the same thing during undergrad. I wasn't a "grinder" though. I (along with all the rest of the smart money) stayed away from you people. I generally played on weekend nights/early mornings at the bigger casinos in Oklahoma. There were 7 or 8 tables of 2-5 going every night and I would sit down and transfer to the table with the biggest/craziest (read: drunkest) stacks. It was easy, easy money, but it wasn't satisfying in the least (hence law school). I've cashed in a few tournaments that I had to report the $5,000+ on my taxes, but I can definitely admit that I'm not even the best in my group of friends. And I definitely wouldn't want to sit at any table with the likes of an AC 5/10 grinder.

I trust wherever you go to law school it will be quite easy to find fellow poker players to share good times with. Good luck.

[traehekat]

Professional poker player does not belong on a resume when applying to law school.

[jas5076]

Just an idea about how you could write this into a PS that may actually be interesting and not too cheesy? Perhaps you could talk about your experiences and how you have developed a passion for the poker. You could stem from this to the US Government and the legal battle over online poker and maybe how you want to get involved in that bullshit or something like that. Just a real general idea. I think it would make you unique, plus it would show why a law degree would actually be useful to you.