top 2% at competitive T1 taking questions/giving advice Forum

[paz]

@grad09

My daily routine was up by 6:30. Eat breakfast. Commute to school. Get to school by 8. Read for class and outline. Go to class at 10. lunch at 12. More class until 2. Get home at 3:30. Nap, eat, go for run. Back to work by 5. Read/outline until 8. dinner 8 to 9. Read til 10. Hang out with SO until 11. Bed. Repeat.

Outline and read all day saturday taking breaks every 2 to 3 hours. Long dinner break. Run errands on sunday and do luandry. DO reading from 5 pm to 9 pm.

I keep busy.

If this is key to being top 2%, I might as well consider ditching this law school thing and becoming an electrician. Brutal..

[beaniew]

Paz: I work highly inefficiently. I do a lot of screwing off.

[beaniew]

@ howcani

I bought the E and E, but rarely used them.

Con law: chemerinski
Prop: gilberts law summaries, and understanding series
Tort: gilberts law summaries, and understanding series
crim law: delaney crim law, and understanding series
civ pro: gilberts multiple choice - read the FRCP - rather memorize the salient language and know how courts have applied it
Contracts: Prof was a nut - supplements didn't work

[beaniew]

@ rando. That is your opinion and I respect it. You should respect mine even if you disagree.

[Lawrence]

integrate supplements from day one. I don't recommend E and E - they are way too dumbed down. If you need something as basic as the E and E, you probably aren't competing for top 10 percent.

Sadly, this is likely true.

I did better than top 10% my first year at a T20. I'd have to say I disagree with this. Most of your work on an issue spotter where the goal is just to spot and talk about as many issues as possible in 3-4 hours will be "dumbed down." The example questions I found to be particularly useful as practice to not only test myself on what I knew well and didn't know well but to get practice with how the different issues may be presented, making it easier to catch them on an exam.

Disclaimer: I barely if ever read the chapters in the E&E's. I just read for class, took note in class, and outlined. Then I went to the E&E questions to practice and test myself. Also, some are better than others. I used the Civ Pro and Torts E&E's the most and I got an A and A+ in those two classes respectively.

[romothesavior]

all those where people start to worry about getting good jobs. Think T20-50.

So you mean 4-50?

[beaniew]

@lawrence. You may have done just as well without E and E. I said if you NEED something as BASIC as E and E, you are probably not competing for the top 10. I didn't say if you used E and E, you are not competitive. There is a difference. I, too, used E and E, but I often said it down after only a couple minutes because I found it a little to basic.

I worked practice problems too, but I chose to work practice problems from past exams. Especially exams with answers. This was much more helpful for ME. I am not saying it is objectively more useful.

Also, keep in mind that not are exams are issue spotters. Some professors expect you to do more than spot a shit ton of issues and "talk about" them. That stated, some professors just expect you to spot a bunch of issues in a short period of time.

[98234872348]

integrate supplements from day one. I don't recommend E and E - they are way too dumbed down. If you need something as basic as the E and E, you probably aren't competing for top 10 percent.

Sadly, this is likely true.

wtf are you talking about?

granted, not everyone needs an E&E but if you are giving advice for perpetuity, E&Es are extremely helpful and definitely assist you in understanding exactly what the law is and how to apply it.

This is honestly some of the worst advice I have ever heard. (read: I am not criticizing your method, obviously for yourself it worked but at the same time I think you might be quite a bit more intelligent than the average T1 student) You have to understand that people learn differently and that if you tell people to circumvent reading the E&Es they might actually do it, which would be devastating to students who are trying to succeed in torts/civ pro. Granted I didn't finished top 2% at my T1 but I wasn't THAT far off, and I mean, I read the E&E for EVERY class and found it extremely helpful. Except contracts, actually. That was the worst E&E by far and I would not recommend it to anyone. Also that class (and that E&E) was the reason I WASN'T top 2%. /bitter.

hth 0Ls

[Lawrence]

@lawrence. You may have done just as well without E and E. I said if you NEED something as BASIC as E and E, you are probably not competing for the top 10. I didn't say if you used E and E, you are not competitive. There is a difference. I, too, used E and E, but I often said it down after only a couple minutes because I found it a little to basic.

I worked practice problems too, but I chose to work practice problems from past exams. Especially exams with answers. This was much more helpful for ME. I am not saying it is objectively more useful.

Also, keep in mind that not are exams are issue spotters. Some professors expect you to do more than spot a shit ton of issues and "talk about" them. That stated, some professors just expect you to spot a bunch of issues in a short period of time.

This might vary based on your professors. My entire first year I only had one professor who had a sample exam with a sample answer available. Many of my professors only had 1 or 2 exams available, and they were not anywhere close to comprehensive of the issues we covered in class. The only way I could get practice with everything was to use something like an E&E throughout the semester and save tests for the end. If you have professors who give you enough practice material of their own exams that you can do that all semester and practice what you neeed to practice, then yeah I would think that's the best way to go. Just wasn't my experience at all.

[beaniew]

@mister

You raise a good point. I concede. In my opinion everyone who wants to do well should look at all commercially available outlines, and then decide what works best for them. I own all of the E and Es. I even use them from time to time. Did they help me? I doubt it. Did they hurt me? Absolutely not. My philosophy was to use everything I possibly could. I didn't overlook any resource.

I would recommend E and E for torts. BUT I would rely more on Hazards Understanding series. The E and E hypos just really bore the crap out of me. I probably read most of them with the exception of their (mostly) rediculous hypos. Occasionaly I was surprised by a hypo here and there, but they are not the best supplement in my opinion.

Please - OLs from here on, don't regard what I say as advice. I will only tell you what worked for me and what didn't. YOU will need to find out what works for you.

[beaniew]

@law. Fortunately each professor save for 1 had 10 plus sample exams - all/most with answers.

If I didn't have this resource, I would have probably worked more EE hypos. Again everyone should buy, or borrow, the EEs. I, myself, think they failed to live up to the hype.

[savagedm]

I've already started law school a class early this summer... taking crim law over 6 weeks with a visiting prof. from Pepperdine. Regarding prepping for this exam, he has bluntly stated that he wants us to come to real conclusions on the exams he gives us (not take shit to the extreme, such as somehow stretching the death penalty to a battery charge). He also stated we would get a 'code book' of all the statutes he will be testing us on because "that's how real lawyers do it".

From day one I have been slowly working on my outline, though I admit I have been slacking since it's only one class. I find myself taking about 3 hours on the readings (not sure if this is a bit too long, given the work load for fall I'm still looking for a method to trim it down to about 2 hours of reading per day of class). I don't really brief the cases too heavily because he said he isnt looking for precedent on the exam, just substance. With that being said, is it normal that I'm finding myself with a crap ton of idle time in this class? We meet every day from 2:40-5pm and during the week I am for sure reading, but like I said, after 3 hours I am done and bored haha. Also, is there anything else I should be doing? My typical study regimen consists of:

-Wake up around 10, 1030
-Shower
-Play some xbox/listen to music/putz around on facebook
-Get to campus about an hour and a half early to review what I read the night before
-Go to class, pay attention to the teacher and trying to pick apart his mentality on things because he wont provide any practice exams till week 3
-Take a break to eat dinner, go work out
-Check assignment for issue we are covering, read supplement on said issue (Glannon's and Emanuel's)
-Do the assigned readings, while checking Westlaw BEFORE I read each case for the issue and rule.
-Continue with the readings, highlighting the parts of the case that helped decide the ruling
-Screw around the rest of the night once my readings are done and ponder why I have so much free time

*edit* oh yeah, I like to reserve Saturday to play with my outline and Sunday to do Monday's readings

[98234872348]

@mister

You raise a good point. I concede. In my opinion everyone who wants to do well should look at all commercially available outlines, and then decide what works best for them. I own all of the E and Es. I even use them from time to time. Did they help me? I doubt it. Did they hurt me? Absolutely not. My philosophy was to use everything I possibly could. I didn't overlook any resource.

I would recommend E and E for torts. BUT I would rely more on Hazards Understanding series. The E and E hypos just really bore the crap out of me. I probably read most of them with the exception of their (mostly) rediculous hypos. Occasionaly I was surprised by a hypo here and there, but they are not the best supplement in my opinion.

Please - OLs from here on, don't regard what I say as advice. I will only tell you what worked for me and what didn't. YOU will need to find out what works for you.

thanks for clarifying bro.

TBH I am not saying that the E&E was the end all be all of law school, because it certainly wasn't and I would be misrepresenting if I said it was. BUT I did find them helpful (granted, in conjunction with what I was studying, and BTW crim law E&E is a waste of FUCKING MONEY) but it's not like the ONLY supp I used was the E&E I used many (although, I only used the understanding series for property (BARELY) and crim law (which is truly amazing, probably one of the best supps on the market)). I am not an E&E troll like Arrow, but, they are definitely helpful 0Ls.

Also, I would like to admit the reason I am so sensitive about the subject is because I relied heavily on TLS advice threads when i was a 0L to learn about the process (granted I developed my own style once I got in a groove) but I don't want any potential 1Ls to be like "well, bean was top 2% and didn't use the E&Es and then finish median. Not to say that you can't overstudy and burn out; YOU CAN. unless you are inhuman. Be careful. But yeah, I would like to help people rather than hurt them.

[monkey85]

To OP: study group or fly solo? or did you do modified study groups (as suggested by other TLS poster, Arrow) where you read with people and then do questions every few hours?

[beaniew]

@monkey. I prefer to go at it alone. I worked with a study group the first semester, but did not for the 2nd. Second semester, I sought the other high performers, those I could identify at least, and asked to exchange outlines every other week. It really depends on how you learn and the quality of the people in your study group. The biggest problem I had with the study group is that we all work differently, and that the people I worked with didn't really know what they were doing.

[beaniew]

issue spotting in a study group is good if you can find people who are willing to do it. Read old exams together, write down the issues on paper by yourself, and then discuss with the group. This is the best way if you don't have an exam key to work with.

[thatsnotmyname]

What's a competitive T1?

gmu

I don't mean to derail the thread, but does GMU have a reputation of being a particularly competitive law school? Just wondering...

[beaniew]

@savage. If you are only taking one class, some idle time doesn't sound unusual. I am reluctant to advise you in light of the specific information your prof has given you. Maybe you could work one of the exams he gives you after week 3 and then try to meet with him to go over it.

[savagedm]

@savage. If you are only taking one class, some idle time doesn't sound unusual. I am reluctant to advise you in light of the specific information your prof has given you. Maybe you could work one of the exams he gives you after week 3 and then try to meet with him to go over it.

Yeah that's my plan. A lot of students seem afraid to approach him but the ten mins I spent last week in his office just chatting him up about the class we had that day + the McChrystal thing gave me the impression he is a super nice guy who is just very direct and stern (he was in the military for a few years). Really nice guy though.

[megaTTTron]

all those where people start to worry about getting good jobs. Think T20-50.

So you mean 4-50?

Blatant anti-Chicago trolling.

[solotee]

OP, do you consider yourself a good writer?

[Tautology]

all those where people start to worry about getting good jobs. Think T20-50.

So you mean 4-50?

Blatant anti-Chicago trolling.

Blatant anti-NYU trolling.

[yinz]

OP, do you consider yourself a good writer?

Can you write good and read good?

[megaTTTron]

all those where people start to worry about getting good jobs. Think T20-50.

So you mean 4-50?

Blatant anti-Chicago trolling.

Blatant anti-NYU trolling.

hahah touche my friend.

[savagedm]

OP, do you consider yourself a good writer?

Can you write good and read good?

Probably 'real good'