The web search that is giving me serious pause... Forum

[JOThompson]

I'm terrified. The first several people weren't faring so well, despite LR/honors. About half the graduates were working well outside the midwest region though, which is somewhat reassuring.

[historyholly]

Sweetsauce. I did a search and I did it with and without years. Good things. I like it

[echoi]

linkedin is a highly self-selecting population...i wouldn't put much stock into this.

[Mr. Pablo]

I guess I'm still sort of dumbfounded that people could expect to obtain a job without actively seeking one out. The OCI thing is funny to me; an employer coming to me? That is a pretty novel concept to me. Does anyone think it's possible that the unemployment horror stories of some kids at highly ranked schools may stem from the fact that they don't go out and, you know, actually apply for jobs?

edit: not that I think this thread is about highly ranked schools, but I think the principle may still hold.

[phoenix323]

To OP: Thanks for this. It rocks.

I typed in my school and saw a few people who were "Post-Bar Law Clerks" for firms.

What does this mean?

[LateNight]

Just did my target T20 school. Most do not work in Law and are instead in another field entirely. Interesting...

[Matthies]

To OP: Thanks for this. It rocks.

I typed in my school and saw a few people who were "Post-Bar Law Clerks" for firms.

What does this mean?

Might mean they are working for a frim awaiting bar results before they can be lic.

[phoenix323]

To OP: Thanks for this. It rocks.

I typed in my school and saw a few people who were "Post-Bar Law Clerks" for firms.

What does this mean?

Might mean they are working for a frim awaiting bar results before they can be lic.

That makes sense.

Thanks!

[ScaredWorkedBored]

...someone explain to me what exactly is wrong with a hanging a shingle straight out of law school?

What the bar allows you to do and what the bar will not sanction you for trying to do are two entirely different things. All non-specialist lawyers being held to the same competency rules cuts both ways...

There are rare exceptions usually grounded in a ton of specialized practical classes & internships that would let a new lawyer perform as competently as the average bum, usually in criminal defense (because most representation here is horrendous). The potential to fuck up the organizational aspects of it would still be immense. Oh, and while you probably *won't* be bad enough to actually get your client reversed because of ineffective criminal counsel, the bar can and will still ring you up.

Business transactions and stuff like that - it's highly unlikely you have taken courses that specifically prepare you for the practical aspects here. Only a few schools have ones worth mentioning. It's true there's nothing to stop you from going with the MPRE Law in a Flash card where you get a $1 billion complex LBO as your first client, and you could theoretically even learn to be competent in doing that. In the real world, you don't know how to actually do a real estate closing, let alone draft the necessary documents.

[Matthies]

You know there are these mythical people, they are called "mentors" and sometimes they have lots of experience in the legal world and are willing to help new lawyers start their own firms right out of law school. Supposedly they send you work, advise you on how to do it, even some say, go to court with you. I've heard rumor of entire organizations dedicated to coupling mentors with new lawyers for this purpose. Of course you have to be a decent human being and not a douchbag to have theses ethereal mentors want to help you so most law students and new lawyers never actually meet one. I glimpsed one once, but not sure if it was a mirage or not.

[Mr. Matlock]

You know there are these mythical people, they are called "mentors" and sometimes they have lots of experience in the legal world and are willing to help new lawyers start their own firms right out of law school. Supposedly they send you work, advise you on how to do it, even some say, go to court with you. I've heard rumor of entire organizations dedicated to coupling mentors with new lawyers for this purpose. Of course you have to be a decent human being and not a douchbag to have theses ethereal mentors want to help you so most law students and new lawyers never actually meet one. I glimpsed one once, but not sure if it was a mirage or not.

[Grizz]

...someone explain to me what exactly is wrong with a hanging a shingle straight out of law school?

Affordable? Have fun paying for office space, ad space, copier, bizhub, legal assistant, Westlaw, etc. with no startup capital. Moar loans? Sounds great! Then, with no established clients, high overhead, and legalzoom.com making people realize they could do simple "bread and butter" legal stuff themselves, you have a good shot at financial ruin. If you somehow do make it into court, you have a good shot at a malpractice lawsuit. Solo practice right out of law school sounds like a good way to get screwed.

With a few years experience, maybe a partner or two, and some clients, then we'd be talking.

[Matthies]

You know there are these mythical people, they are called "mentors" and sometimes they have lots of experience in the legal world and are willing to help new lawyers start their own firms right out of law school. Supposedly they send you work, advise you on how to do it, even some say, go to court with you. I've heard rumor of entire organizations dedicated to coupling mentors with new lawyers for this purpose. Of course you have to be a decent human being and not a douchbag to have theses ethereal mentors want to help you so most law students and new lawyers never actually meet one. I glimpsed one once, but not sure if it was a mirage or not.

Pretty funny but yesterday at "new lawyer boot camp aka how not to get disbarred" they said the number one reason, 3x1 over any of single grievance complaint they get about new lawyers is 'bad personality/personal skills" then showed a us a demand letter written by, wait for it, a newly minted T14 lawyer who opened the letter to opposing counsel with "Dear Douchbag." He's on a 1 year suspension now.

[SwollenMonkey]

I'm grateful I found a few from a T3 and T4 school that have granted me acceptances. This is a great idea.

[Mr. Matlock]

Pretty funny but yesterday at "new lawyer boot camp aka how not to get disbarred" they said the number one reason, 3x1 over any of single grievance complaint they get about new lawyers is 'bad personality/personal skills" then showed a us a demand letter written by, wait for it, a newly minted T14 lawyer who opened the letter to opposing counsel with "Dear Douchbag." He's on a 1 year suspension now.

I'm laughing to keep from crying at the fact you actually need a class to be told not to do this!!!

[Matthies]

Pretty funny but yesterday at "new lawyer boot camp aka how not to get disbarred" they said the number one reason, 3x1 over any of single grievance complaint they get about new lawyers is 'bad personality/personal skills" then showed a us a demand letter written by, wait for it, a newly minted T14 lawyer who opened the letter to opposing counsel with "Dear Douchbag." He's on a 1 year suspension now.

I'm laughing to keep from crying at the fact you actually need a class to be told not to do this!!!

Dude PEOPLE WHERE TAKING NOTES

[uwb09]

Pretty funny but yesterday at "new lawyer boot camp aka how not to get disbarred" they said the number one reason, 3x1 over any of single grievance complaint they get about new lawyers is 'bad personality/personal skills" then showed a us a demand letter written by, wait for it, a newly minted T14 lawyer who opened the letter to opposing counsel with "Dear Douchbag." He's on a 1 year suspension now.

I'm laughing to keep from crying at the fact you actually need a class to be told not to do this!!!

Dude PEOPLE WHERE TAKING NOTES

it's kinda sad that "being part of an undergrad campus/other grad school community" had to be pretty high on my priority list, but man, almost every other student I knew in undergrad who wanted to go to law school was just a snobby stuck up douchebag, if i had to be in an entirely separate building/campus with 85% people like that, i'd want to shoot myself

there are obviously exceptions, there seem to be a lot of cool/chill/social/down to earth people on this site, but i'm not looking forward to the amount of snobby/self-entitled a-holes awaiting me next year

[dakatz]

Pretty funny but yesterday at "new lawyer boot camp aka how not to get disbarred" they said the number one reason, 3x1 over any of single grievance complaint they get about new lawyers is 'bad personality/personal skills" then showed a us a demand letter written by, wait for it, a newly minted T14 lawyer who opened the letter to opposing counsel with "Dear Douchbag." He's on a 1 year suspension now.

I'm laughing to keep from crying at the fact you actually need a class to be told not to do this!!!

Dude PEOPLE WHERE TAKING NOTES

it's kinda sad that "being part of an undergrad campus/other grad school community" had to be pretty high on my priority list, but man, almost every other student I knew in undergrad who wanted to go to law school was just a snobby stuck up douchebag, if i had to be in an entirely separate building/campus with 85% people like that, i'd want to shoot myself

there are obviously exceptions, there seem to be a lot of cool/chill/social/down to earth people on this site, but i'm not looking forward to the amount of snobby/self-entitled a-holes awaiting me next year

Amen. I stopped by Columbia Law yesterday since I know some people in the area, and the snobbery and pretension was just through the roof. I've always been a pretty humble and chill person, and could never imagine myself in such an environment. I really hope not all schools are like this, though I'm afraid they might be.

[Unemployed]

Amen. I stopped by Columbia Law yesterday since I know some people in the area, and the snobbery and pretension was just through the roof. I've always been a pretty humble and chill person, and could never imagine myself in such an environment. I really hope not all schools are like this, though I'm afraid they might be.

A humble and chill person usually doesn't say things like this with a straight face!

[dakatz]

Amen. I stopped by Columbia Law yesterday since I know some people in the area, and the snobbery and pretension was just through the roof. I've always been a pretty humble and chill person, and could never imagine myself in such an environment. I really hope not all schools are like this, though I'm afraid they might be.

A humble and chill person usually doesn't say things like this with a straight face!

I'm chill in that I would always seem to be in place no matter who I'm with, and would never put anyone down. But that doesn't mean that, on the inside, I wouldn't feel like a total outsider.

[Unemployed]

Amen. I stopped by Columbia Law yesterday since I know some people in the area, and the snobbery and pretension was just through the roof. I've always been a pretty humble and chill person, and could never imagine myself in such an environment. I really hope not all schools are like this, though I'm afraid they might be.

A humble and chill person usually doesn't say things like this with a straight face!

I'm chill in that I would always seem to be in place no matter who I'm with, and would never put anyone down. But that doesn't mean that, on the inside, I wouldn't feel like a total outsider.

Fixed for clarity

I am joking around.

[dakatz]

Amen. I stopped by Columbia Law yesterday since I know some people in the area, and the snobbery and pretension was just through the roof. I've always been a pretty humble and chill person, and could never imagine myself in such an environment. I really hope not all schools are like this, though I'm afraid they might be.

A humble and chill person usually doesn't say things like this with a straight face!

I'm chill in that I would always seem to be in place no matter who I'm with, and would never put anyone down. But that doesn't mean that, on the inside, I wouldn't feel like a total outsider.

Fixed for clarity

I am joking around.

Lol, as am I. There are snobby people no matter where you go, and I'm sure Columbia is no worse than the others. Not like I wouldn't still love to go there for school.

[Matthies]

Pretty funny but yesterday at "new lawyer boot camp aka how not to get disbarred" they said the number one reason, 3x1 over any of single grievance complaint they get about new lawyers is 'bad personality/personal skills" then showed a us a demand letter written by, wait for it, a newly minted T14 lawyer who opened the letter to opposing counsel with "Dear Douchbag." He's on a 1 year suspension now.

I'm laughing to keep from crying at the fact you actually need a class to be told not to do this!!!

Dude PEOPLE WHERE TAKING NOTES

it's kinda sad that "being part of an undergrad campus/other grad school community" had to be pretty high on my priority list, but man, almost every other student I knew in undergrad who wanted to go to law school was just a snobby stuck up douchebag, if i had to be in an entirely separate building/campus with 85% people like that, i'd want to shoot myself

there are obviously exceptions, there seem to be a lot of cool/chill/social/down to earth people on this site, but i'm not looking forward to the amount of snobby/self-entitled a-holes awaiting me next year

Your reputation is a HUGE thing in the legal field and it starts the day you start law school. They talked allot about if Friday, saying how in my state there are 35k lawyers but everyone knows everyone else. I have seen this first hand.

Twice in the past year I have gotten calls about from a lawyer or judge who knew me personally to ask about an applicants reputation in law school. Both time the persons there were calling about had a bad rap. Luckily for me (because I feel really icky about throwing ANYONE under the bus) I did not really have that much personal interaction with either of these people, so I was able to pass the buck. I told them I did not really know them personally BUT I did know classmates who did and had been burned by the person and then gave them their contact info so they could get the info first hand. Both time these people later called me to thank me from keeping them from hiring a "bad apple" one whose rep is so bad that two years after graduation everyone knows this person's name because they have burned lawyers they have worked with already.

It works on the other end too. Wednesday I get a call from a very prominate and high powered local attorney i have done work for in the past that needed a motion by Monday. I could not do it, I was over booked and just could not take on another project with that short of a deadline, but I told him I could recommend a classmate who might be able to. Called the classmate, he said he was open, set up the contact. Friday when I got out of class I had voice mails from both of them, lawyer loved this guys work, and the classmate got asked by the lawyer to be second chair on a big fed case he has coming up (mind this classmate has been without a job for a year, in large part because he job search has consitisted solely of responding to want adds/school job posting which is about useless). In the span of 2 days with a little help from me the guy is now doing work for the lawyer who three years ago introduced me to a state supreme court justice who has since become a close friend. this is how the legal world really works folks.

[goodolgil]

My first result ... a model for 5 years and an MTV VJ??

http://www.linkedin.com/in/angeltang

[trialjunky]

My first result ... a model for 5 years and an MTV VJ??

http://www.linkedin.com/in/angeltang

They have those at UMich?