154, 3.28: Should I apply to.... Forum

[DeSilentio2728]

you should retake. I just applied to schools with a 3.25 and 154 and got rejected pretty much everywhere.

Definitely check out some of those schools in the t3, t4 section that have you at strong consider, or admit, as you should have some safeties if you want to go to law school next year (as should everybody).

[icydash]

Okay so they are looking for people to increase those numbers, but they still let 50% of applicants in that are below it.

Someone may have previously said what I'm about to in response to the above post, but it was important so I'm going to highlight it again:
Almost 0 applicants are below both medians. If an accepted applicant is below one median, it typically means he/she is above the other to counterbalance. If you are below both medians at any school, then all you'll do is hurt their stats/rankings. Unless you bring something really big to the table (big connection, URM status, etc) that will make it worth it for them to let there stats dip, you will be rejected.

If I where you, I'd go to lawschoolpredictor.com and put in your stats. Anything not above "weak consider" (consider/strong consider/admit) don't waste your money with; you will not be accepted.

[acoon624]

I wouldn't base your probabilities entirely off that website...I applied to a number of different schools with similar numbers (I am a double major though if that counts for anything) and some of the schools that the website had me as "weak consider" have accepted me with scholarship offers...it's a tool to gain a grasp but it shouldn't mean a lot to you as everyone is different

[icydash]

I wouldn't base your probabilities entirely off that website...I applied to a number of different schools with similar numbers (I am a double major though if that counts for anything) and some of the schools that the website had me as "weak consider" have accepted me with scholarship offers...it's a tool to gain a grasp but it shouldn't mean a lot to you as everyone is different

If this is the case, then you have some glaring obvious reason for it i'm sure the OP doesn't. Are you a URM? Have a political connection? A masters degree? A unique major? I'm sure there's more to this then meets the eye.

[jeeptiger09]

American--Out
UGA--Save your money
UNC--Save your money
Oregon--Out
SC--Out

GSU--Out
FSU--Out
FIU--??
Miami--WL/Out
Mercer--WL/Out
Arkansas--Out
Bowen--?

[icydash]

Forgot to mention this in my last post: another good resource is http://officialguide.lsac.org/UGPASearc ... SidString=
Put in your GPA / LSAT and you can get a feel where you lay in a schools range. If you're less then 40%, I wouldn't bother sending out an app.

[william wallace]

Okay, that is what I thought and needed to hear confirmed about the medians. That clears it up for me.

ALSO, I definitely should have mentioned this: I am a non-URM. Surprisingly, the predictor tool has a space for you to check if you are. So, the numbers take into account that I am a non-URM.

I don't understand some things on the predictor tool either. I have a friend who not only got into a school, but received a scholarship. However, when I put his numbers in the predictor, they came out as "weak consider." He's white and rich so the tool is what it is. I also have heard so many inconsistencies in people being accepted to one school and not another which was ranked lower. So, you never know.

[icydash]

Okay, that is what I thought and needed to hear confirmed about the medians. That clears it up for me.

ALSO, I definitely should have mentioned this: I am a non-URM. Surprisingly, the predictor tool has a space for you to check if you are. So, the numbers take into account that I am a non-URM.

I don't understand some things on the predictor tool either. I have a friend who not only got into a school, but received a scholarship. However, when I put his numbers in the predictor, they came out as "weak consider." He's white and rich so the tool is what it is. I also have heard so many inconsistencies in people being accepted to one school and not another which was ranked lower. So, you never know.

the rankings are inconsistent, the tool is typically not. A lot of times the tool will show you getting into a higher ranked school and not at a lower ranked school, but that usually is fairly consistent with what happens in real life, as the rankings are way more imperfect than the tool.... not to say either one is perfect.

I'd be curious to see your friends whole application...numbers aren't everything. Again, if there's some huge thing on his resume (some work experience somewhere major, political connection, admissions dean connection, legacy? etc) that would account for it. Or he could have just had an unusually solid PS...or his father could have made a lofty donation

Point being, if you have nothing -outstanding- in your PS or resume, and you're not a URM, you can expect the numbers/tools to reasonably reflect what will happen.

[DeSilentio2728]

I am not a big fan of the predictor either, as I think it gives you a lower chance than in actuality (things are not always so red, orange, yellow, and green). The tools I used most were as follows:

1)
http://officialguide.lsac.org/UGPASearc ... SidString=

Apply to schools where you have atleast >20% chance

2) BEST And MOST ACCURATE!

http://officialguide.lsac.org/ONLG_Default.aspx

click on all law schools

go to your particular school

then click on law school description and scroll down to applicant profile and look at your box to determine what chances you have

[jeeptiger09]

1)
http://officialguide.lsac.org/UGPASearc ... SidString=

Apply to schools where you have atleast >20% chance

This is not good advice.

[icydash]

1)
http://officialguide.lsac.org/UGPASearc ... SidString=

Apply to schools where you have atleast >20% chance

This is not good advice.

+1

[DeSilentio2728]

1)
http://officialguide.lsac.org/UGPASearc ... SidString=

Apply to schools where you have atleast >20% chance

This is not good advice.

Are you kidding? I said at least. Did you not put some reaches into your application selection? I think that's why they call them reaches. As for this particular applicant it may not be, as he/she is applying very late in the cycle and does not seem to have any particular softs that make him/her stand out, but for the majority of applicants I would think that this advice would hold.

[jeeptiger09]

1)
http://officialguide.lsac.org/UGPASearc ... SidString=

Apply to schools where you have atleast >20% chance

This is not good advice.

Are you kidding? I said at least. Did you not put some reaches into your application selection? I think that's why they call them reaches. As for this particular applicant it may not be, as he/she is applying very late in the cycle and does not seem to have any particular softs that make him/her stand out, but for the majority of applicants I would think that this advice would hold.

Are you kidding? At least 20% chance? Ok, go to the website you recommended, type in 3.5 GPA and 160 LSAT (good stats). Now check out places where you would advise someone with these stats to apply... Emory? UIUC? UNC? ND? W&M? A 3.5/160 is likely to get rejected at all of those schools.

I'm not saying this isn't a bad place to start, but 20%? Try applying to schools with 40-50% chance minimum.

*unless you are URM/Rhodes Scholar/Americorps/TFA

[icydash]

1)
http://officialguide.lsac.org/UGPASearc ... SidString=

Apply to schools where you have atleast >20% chance

This is not good advice.

Are you kidding? I said at least. Did you not put some reaches into your application selection? I think that's why they call them reaches. As for this particular applicant it may not be, as he/she is applying very late in the cycle and does not seem to have any particular softs that make him/her stand out, but for the majority of applicants I would think that this advice would hold.

Are you kidding? At least 20% chance? Ok, go to the website you recommended, type in 3.5 GPA and 160 LSAT (good stats). Now check out places where you would advise someone with these stats to apply... Emory? UIUC? UNC? ND? W&M? A 3.5/160 is likely to get rejected at all of those schools.

I'm not saying this isn't a bad place to start, but 20%? Try applying to schools with 40-50% chance minimum.

*unless you are URM/Rhodes Scholar/Americorps/TFA

I agree totally with this. 20% is next to nothing. It means 80% failure rate. What that needs to say to you is: unless you have some outstanding thing on your resume, URM, etc...there's no way in hell. A good reach is something you have a chance at, but is unlikely (40% chance or higher you will be admitted for arguments sake).

[Grizz]

Or check out Stetson, and live in paradise (plus it is a decent school).

If you want to be in debt and perhaps marginally employed afterward, ITE.

[DeSilentio2728]

1)
http://officialguide.lsac.org/UGPASearc ... SidString=

Apply to schools where you have atleast >20% chance

This is not good advice.

Are you kidding? I said at least. Did you not put some reaches into your application selection? I think that's why they call them reaches. As for this particular applicant it may not be, as he/she is applying very late in the cycle and does not seem to have any particular softs that make him/her stand out, but for the majority of applicants I would think that this advice would hold.

Are you kidding? At least 20% chance? Ok, go to the website you recommended, type in 3.5 GPA and 160 LSAT (good stats). Now check out places where you would advise someone with these stats to apply... Emory? UIUC? UNC? ND? W&M? A 3.5/160 is likely to get rejected at all of those schools.

I'm not saying this isn't a bad place to start, but 20%? Try applying to schools with 40-50% chance minimum.

*unless you are URM/Rhodes Scholar/Americorps/TFA

50/50 is by definition competitive. I wouldn't apply only to competitive schools if I were an applicant, but rather to a good mix. You never know how somebody else will view your softs/personal statement/etc...

If you look at UNC's lsac description they admitted 31% of applicants in the 160-163, 3.5 range. I would say that a 1/3 or even a 1/5 chance is well worth the application fee if it is your ideal school.

[DeSilentio2728]

Or check out Stetson, and live in paradise (plus it is a decent school).

If you want to be in debt and perhaps marginally employed afterward, ITE.

Some guys just want to go to law school. There aren't that many good choices for him/her at this late a stage in the game.

[icydash]

If you look at UNC's lsac description they admitted 31% of applicants in the 160-163, 3.5 range. I would say that a 1/3 or even a 1/5 chance is well worth the application fee if it is your dream school.

if it's your dream school being the key phrase here. As in, NOT every school on the list above 20%. Only if it would be heaven on earth to get into a particular school is the money well spent.

[jeeptiger09]

50/50 is by definition competitive. I wouldn't apply only to competitive schools if I were an applicant, but rather to a good mix. You never know how somebody else will view your softs/personal statement/etc...

If you look at UNC's lsac description they admitted 31% of applicants in the 160-163, 3.5 range. I would say that a 1/3 or even a 1/5 chance is well worth the application fee if it is your dream school.

UNC is a poor example because the state constitution of North Carolina mandates the enrollment of each incoming class to be somewhere between 75 and 80 percent in-state, so their numbers are skewed.

But honestly if someone had a 160, 3.5 you would recommend they apply to Emory, William and Mary, and Notre Dame? I hope not, that's clearly false hope.

[JustDude]

Or check out Stetson, and live in paradise (plus it is a decent school).

If you want to be in debt and perhaps marginally employed afterward, ITE.

Some guys just want to go to law school. There aren't that many good choices for him/her at this late a stage in the game.

Law School is not a movie theater.



Torts are not Avatar. Or are they??????????

[Grizz]

Or check out Stetson, and live in paradise (plus it is a decent school).

If you want to be in debt and perhaps marginally employed afterward, ITE.

Some guys just want to go to law school. There aren't that many good choices for him/her at this late a stage in the game.

Just wanting to go to any 'ol law school is not a good attitude to have.

[DeSilentio2728]

50/50 is by definition competitive. I wouldn't apply only to competitive schools if I were an applicant, but rather to a good mix. You never know how somebody else will view your softs/personal statement/etc...

If you look at UNC's lsac description they admitted 31% of applicants in the 160-163, 3.5 range. I would say that a 1/3 or even a 1/5 chance is well worth the application fee if it is your dream school.

UNC is a poor example because the state constitution of North Carolina mandates the enrollment of each incoming class to be somewhere between 75 and 80 percent in-state, so their numbers are skewed.

But honestly if someone had a 160, 3.5 you would recommend they apply to Emory, William and Mary, and Notre Dame? I hope not, that's clearly false hope.

Good Point about UNC.

One has to be realistic and understand that there exists a 2/3 or 4/5 chance that one would not be admitted, and thus I wouldn't consider that to be false hope at all, but a realistic understanding that it probably isn't going to happen.

Would I still advise to apply, absolutely! Emory even flat out tells applicants in that range that they have a GOOD POSSIBILITY of admittance. See:
http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchRes ... AC5187.pdf

[DeSilentio2728]

Or check out Stetson, and live in paradise (plus it is a decent school).

If you want to be in debt and perhaps marginally employed afterward, ITE.

Some guys just want to go to law school. There aren't that many good choices for him/her at this late a stage in the game.

Just wanting to go to any 'ol law school is not a good attitude to have.

I'm not saying that going to "any 'ol law school" is the person's attitude, but rather I am saying that simply because one scores low on their exams does not mean that they are incapable of becoming good assets to the legal profession. If the person truly wants to become a lawyer and is incapable of improving their scores, then it is perfectly alright to not attend a law school that fits the bill for most of the egomaniacs around here.

[william wallace]

So are you guys saying that you wouldn't apply to Yale if that tool said you had a 20% chance of making it into Yale, not even considering your possibly soft factors. Okay sorry, that is an extreme example. A 20% chance of going to Yale is different than a 20% chance of going to USC.

Okay, maybe I should reveal my soft factors/expand on myself. I am going to include my PS. That will show some of my softs. I also went to school on a full ride. I majored in Finance. 2 minors: marketing, psychology. I was Recruitment Chairman for my fraternity (NOT a good influence on GPA).

I have something in common with both our current president and a previous commander in chief. I was born in Hawai'i and I was raised in Arkansas. Hawai'i’s mixture of many different races and ethnicities, each with its own distinct culture, has made the state somewhat of a melting pot. These include Indigenous Hawaiians, Japanese and Filipinos, among others. The close proximity and frequent interactions among people from these different groups have resulted in a true demonstration of multicultural diversity. Observing this diversity while living in Hawaii stimulated my interest and motivation to travel and discover even more cultures.

While I wasn’t able to travel much during high school in Arkansas, I still observed diversity due to the large Hispanic population of the state. In my high school summer landscaping job, I was the only English-speaking employee under our supervisor. Yet, due to studying Spanish since the eighth grade, I had the responsibility of communicating work orders to the Hispanic crew. In return, I was able to learn about their interesting Hispanic culture. This early contact with Spanish speakers and the longing to communicate with them on deeper levels led me to select Spanish as the language I wanted to continue learning. I also learned that the Hispanic population in the United States was projected to increase exponentially, which gave me hope that I would actually be able to use this skill later on in my life.

For the past year and a half, I have been living in Buenos Aires, Argentina. This has given me the opportunity to live on my own and immerse myself in a completely new culture. I’m employed to teach English as a second language for a language institute as well as for my private students. My clients are typically multinational corporations whose employees need to learn English. Part of my work draws on my ability of being sensitive to the local culture, now knowing the importance behind kissing my students on the cheek before and after each and every class. I also must assess each student’s strengths and weaknesses and tailor classes to their needs. I spend my Saturday afternoons in a local neighborhood, Recoleta, walking around and speaking only English with one of my students, Marcelo. These weekly three hours allow him to improve his speaking ability, while I get to discover another part of this exciting country.

My desire to move to Buenos Aires was to expand my understanding of Latin American culture and become fluent in Spanish. Achieving Spanish fluency has allowed me to completely assimilate into the culture of Buenos Aires, just as assimilating into the city’s culture has allowed me to attain Spanish fluency. I make an effort to interact with people who solely speak Spanish, ranging from my Spanish professors to all four of the landlords I have had in Buenos Aires. The very first important word I learned was boludo, which carries the English equivalent of our colloquial “dude” or “man.” In a feeble attempt to sound more like the locals, I began using this word, without knowing its full meaning. One morning, I stepped onto the 152 bus, and recognized my bus driver from before. He had smiled until I asked him how much it cost to go a certain distance, using the word boludo in my sentence. Instantly, he gave me a disgusted look and sternly advised me not to use that word. I later found out that it can have a very offensive meaning, and should only be used between friends.

My Argentina experience has been eye opening, but it does not stand alone in influence. Perhaps the ultimate influence on my life was my father’s seven-year battle with prostate cancer, and eventual death from the disease during my senior year of high school. During this time I became more mature and developed an increased understanding of perseverance and determination. He spent his final few months in the local Hospice Center. These were very hard times for me and forced me to look more seriously at my life. I was determined to make my father proud, but more importantly; I was determined to be successful and dedicated to my studies and my future. Through the whole ordeal, I overcame hardship and did not let this situation halt my personal growth.

I was visiting my father at the Hospice Center during what we knew would be one of his final days. I asked him “Dad, do you have any advice for me?” He told me he wanted me to work hard for whatever I desired. In addition to my initial interest in exploring new cultures, my father’s hopes for me to follow my aspirations propelled my passion and lack of hesitation in moving to Argentina. Now they drive me to pursue what I desire next, a career in either international law or immigration law.

When I commit to furthering my education, whether in a language or a new course of study, I see it through to the end. I plan to use my language skills in a career in international law or immigration law. I am motivated to learn more about the dynamic processes of international law. Although my travel and immersion experiences have already broadened my scope, I know that what I have seen and done represents only a tiny portion of what our world has to offer. I am enthusiastic to participate in more of it.

[william wallace]

Also, no, I don't want to just go to law school. By no means do I want to graduate with 100k in debt. This is a huge decision. That being said, Stetson would be great, but I can't be 130k in debt. I'm looking mostly at public schools. Mercer is probably out I shouldn't have put that on the list. It's just that I want to get in somewhere in Georgia/Florida/SC/Hawai'i. So, Mercer was on there because of Georgia but I probably won't go there. Same with Stetson. (Great schools, too expensive).