Columbia University vs. University of Chicago Forum

[underdawg]

if economics give you a boner, chicago

if ivy league prestige (clearly you are a man concerned with prestige) turns you on, columbia

if you are obsessed with being "cooler" than the two others (though you probably aren't), nyu

[PLATONiC]

if economics give you a boner, chicago

if ivy league prestige (clearly you are a man concerned with prestige) turns you on, columbia

if you are obsessed with being "cooler" than the two others (though you probably aren't), nyu

Money saved from going to Chicago: $10,000

The value of ivy league prestige from Columbia: $50,000

Being obsessed with being cooler than the two others: $100,000

Having better things to do than posting 20,000 posts on TLS in two years: Priceless

[JollyGreenGiant]

Some people around these parts prefer Columbia over NYU/Chicago/Berk/etc. because they have a higher rank on USNEWS or they feel slighted that someone with "lower" numbers than them can get into NYU/Chi/Berk so they'd rather go to Columbia. I'm not saying that is the reasoning behind EVERYONE, but it is for some people. That being said, Columbia is a great school. I'd personally choose Chicago (I want nothing to do with biglaw, I'm uninterested in NYC, and I love small class sizes) but I'd have to think for a very long time.

[kurama20]

Some people around these parts prefer Columbia over NYU/Chicago/Berk/etc. because they have a higher rank on USNEWS or they feel slighted that someone with "lower" numbers than them can get into NYU/Chi/Berk so they'd rather go to Columbia. I'm not saying that is the reasoning behind EVERYONE, but it is for some people. That being said, Columbia is a great school. I'd personally choose Chicago (I want nothing to do with biglaw, I'm uninterested in NYC, and I love small class sizes) but I'd have to think for a very long time.

That's a new one. I've never heard that as a reason to prefer Columbia over other schools.

[Damon]

If you ever want to work outside of the legal profession, on a scale of 10, the lay prestige of columbia is about a '9', chicago is about a '4'. I might even be a little too generous with that.

[02082010]

Just poking my head in.

Continue.

[Dignan]

If you ever want to work outside of the legal profession, on a scale of 10, the lay prestige of columbia is about a '9', chicago is about a '4'. I might even be a little too generous with that.

This really depends on region. In the northeast, the lay prestige of Columbia might be a 9. In other parts of the country, it is not. I live in California. When I tell people that I am applying to Columbia Law School, they think I'm talking about a school in South America. Out here, the only East Coast law schools with any lay prestige are Harvard, Yale, and Georgetown.

[PLATONiC]

If you ever want to work outside of the legal profession, on a scale of 10, the lay prestige of columbia is about a '9', chicago is about a '4'. I might even be a little too generous with that.

I have a feeling that you might be underrating Chicago's lay prestige if a "4" is too generous (when put in the context of all the other high ranking universities such as Berkeley, Penn, NYU, GTown, etc.)... then again maybe not. But I think there was a pretty big thread on T-14 lay prestige a while ago.

[kurama20]

If you ever want to work outside of the legal profession, on a scale of 10, the lay prestige of columbia is about a '9', chicago is about a '4'. I might even be a little too generous with that.

Chicago's lay prestige is horrendously low, but Columbia's isn't as high as you think it is by any means. Checkout the Gallup poll to see Columbia's mediocre lay prestige. It's better than Chicago but it's nothing to bank on. The only top 14 schools with universal lay prestige are Harvard and Yale.

[UChicagoStudent]

Chicago 1L here. My 2 cents: Y >> HS >Columbia/Chicago > NYU . If lay prestige is your thing, take Cornell/Columbia/U Michigan.

I give the edge to Columbia over Chicago, but its advantage negligible. They are both great schools, and neither is going to open up or shut any doors over the other one.

I think Chicago has a better faculty. I think Chicago has better journals. Columbia has a bit more academic/legal prestige. Elite clerkships are a toss-up (I think that Chicago places better, but its likely due to its small class size). Columbia has a huge alum. network, as compared to Chicago, and Columbia places (slightly) better at the elite firms.

Its a win/win. I think that if you are deciding between the two, visit the schools and see which one fits you better. Look at scholrship money/etc, and visit both the schools.

[scribelaw]

If you think you might be interested in public interest or government work, Columbia has a lot better LRAP.

[imchuckbass58]

I actually made this decision last year. I think it's a total toss-up, and in the end it really comes down to whether you'd rather be in New York or Chicago (both for school and afterwards). I have family and friends in New York and want to live here after school, so I picked here.

If I didn't have locational preference and wanted to practice in a "neutral" location, I would have picked Chicago - I think I would have liked the smaller class size. It constricts the alumni network somewhat and you have fewer extracurricular opportunities by virtue of just having fewer bodies to fill activities, but on the other hand you know your classmates better and have more faculty interaction (I imagine).

[badfish]

I know you aren't asking me, but I think the fact that NYU has money coming out the wazoo has certainly helped climb out the rankings (not to say it undeserving). Also, it better (perceived) location tends to attract students and faculty alike.

This. Chicago has some pretty low faculty expenditures or something like that that hurts it in the rankings. And let's be real, NYU's location is viewed by many as being far far superior to Chicago's.

If you look at US News you will actually see that Chicago has always had higher lawyer/judge and even peer assessment scores than NYU.

IMO, so much of this has to do with the stickiness of the collective opinion of the legal community. Being a relative newcomer, NYU is going to take a hit on those rankings, regardless of where it probably should rank.

/nyu trolling.

[02082010]

nyu trolling

That's all I saw.

[badfish]

nyu trolling

That's all I saw.

if it wasn't for your badass avatar i'd ban you.

[heyguys]

ITE, if I wanted to practice anywhere outside of the midwest I would go to Columbia. That said, I wouldn't pay full sticker for either.

[02082010]

ITE, if I wanted to practice anywhere outside of the midwest I would go to Columbia.

When did the T6 become regional?

[Unemployed]

this was pretty much the point i was trying to make. Columbia has higher placement on the "most prestigious" aka "uber elite." i do understand why some people may be inclined to go for chicago, but it's just the prestige that comes with Columbia that would ultimately lead people to vote Columbia over Chicago on this poll.

That's not what what I'm saying. Columbia actually does not have the higher placement into the most selective firms. It has the higher placement into the most selective NYC firms. Really Williams and Connolly, Kellogg Huber, Munger, and Irell are all more prestigious than the NYC firms outside of Wachtell and maybe Cravath. Chicago places the same or better into these firms. On top of this Chicago places better into COA clerkships, which again is really more difficult to get than these top NYC firms. The two schools are equal in placement. The only area where CLS is more "elite" than Chicago is in lay prestige.

I like to believe that this is the case. The "lay prestige" factor... just trying to figure out my best options because I'll be playing sticker price:

Whereas an education at Columbia University would cost an excess of $10,000 because of the living expenses, the University of Chicago offers an education that provides very similar Biglaw job prospects, and
Whereas Columbia University ranks higher in terms of placing grads into elite NYC firms, University of Chicago probably has a similar if not better placement in these types of firms in Chicago, and
Whereas the lay prestige at Columbia University could help me get an even larger pole stuck up my ass, I trust that the University of Chicago could boost my ego up to the sky equally well.

I just wanted to see if others had a similar assessment of the two schools.

While I admit that Chicago is a fantastic institution and can hold its own against (if not easily surpass) Columbia, let's be fair - the "pole stuck up [the] ass" is larger over there, precisely because it used to be an even better school. Apparently, the holy trinity 30 years ago was Harvard, Yale and Chicago. One too many Chicago grads have reminded me of that indisputable fact in the 21st century.

[The Brainalist]

While I admit that Chicago is a fantastic institution and can hold its own against (if not easily surpass) Columbia, let's be fair - the "pole stuck up [the] ass" is larger over there, precisely because it used to be an even better school. Apparently, the holy trinity 30 years ago was Harvard, Yale and Chicago. One too many Chicago grads have reminded me of that indisputable fact in the 21st century.

History has to count for something. The idea that Chicago had a peak where it was arguably the most exciting place to be, because law & econ was burgeoning or whatever, is a pretty cool thing, even if it currently doesn't sit on that peak. It kind of gives people something to hang their hat on. I have a harder time finding something equivalent to get excited about its peer schools. You just kind of go "oh, good school." Somehow less interesting, even if currently Chicago stands as another "oh, good school."

I like it when schools have a "thing." Berkeley has that progressive "thing" (thanks to the 60's or something). NYU has a "hip" and public interest "thing" (which I think is probably BS, given that their % that go into PI doesn't actually seem that high, but again probably relying on something that isn't true anymore). What the heck is Columbia's "thing"?

[AngryAvocado]

While I admit that Chicago is a fantastic institution and can hold its own against (if not easily surpass) Columbia, let's be fair - the "pole stuck up [the] ass" is larger over there, precisely because it used to be an even better school. Apparently, the holy trinity 30 years ago was Harvard, Yale and Chicago. One too many Chicago grads have reminded me of that indisputable fact in the 21st century.

History has to count for something. The idea that Chicago had a peak where it was arguably the most exciting place to be, because law & econ was burgeoning or whatever, is a pretty cool thing, even if it currently doesn't sit on that peak. It kind of gives people something to hang their hat on. I have a harder time finding something equivalent to get excited about its peer schools. You just kind of go "oh, good school." Somehow less interesting, even if currently Chicago stands as another "oh, good school."

I like it when schools have a "thing." Berkeley has that progressive "thing" (thanks to the 60's or something). NYU has a "hip" and public interest "thing" (which I think is probably BS, given that their % that go into PI doesn't actually seem that high, but again probably relying on something that isn't true anymore). What the heck is Columbia's "thing"?

Asians.

[irie]

This really depends on region. In the northeast, the lay prestige of Columbia might be a 9. In other parts of the country, it is not. I live in California. When I tell people that I am applying to Columbia Law School, they think I'm talking about a school in South America. Out here, the only East Coast law schools with any lay prestige are Harvard, Yale, and Georgetown.

really? Georgetown?

[facetious]

This really depends on region. In the northeast, the lay prestige of Columbia might be a 9. In other parts of the country, it is not. I live in California. When I tell people that I am applying to Columbia Law School, they think I'm talking about a school in South America. Out here, the only East Coast law schools with any lay prestige are Harvard, Yale, and Georgetown.

really? Georgetown?

gulc's lay prestige never ceases to amaze me. so many people i have spoken to look at me like i am insane for choosing nyu over georgetown. in fact, before i had been accepted to nyu, i told someone that i got into gulc but was really hoping to get into stanford and nyu. they said "oh, you got into georgetown. you'll definitely get into stanford and nyu." and this person's father is a judge.

[rayiner]

This really depends on region. In the northeast, the lay prestige of Columbia might be a 9. In other parts of the country, it is not. I live in California. When I tell people that I am applying to Columbia Law School, they think I'm talking about a school in South America. Out here, the only East Coast law schools with any lay prestige are Harvard, Yale, and Georgetown.

really? Georgetown?

Georgetown has mad lay prestige.

[oneforship]

This really depends on region. In the northeast, the lay prestige of Columbia might be a 9. In other parts of the country, it is not. I live in California. When I tell people that I am applying to Columbia Law School, they think I'm talking about a school in South America. Out here, the only East Coast law schools with any lay prestige are Harvard, Yale, and Georgetown.

really? Georgetown?

Georgetown has mad lay prestige.

+1

[02082010]

This really depends on region. In the northeast, the lay prestige of Columbia might be a 9. In other parts of the country, it is not. I live in California. When I tell people that I am applying to Columbia Law School, they think I'm talking about a school in South America. Out here, the only East Coast law schools with any lay prestige are Harvard, Yale, and Georgetown.

really? Georgetown?

Georgetown has mad lay prestige.

It's bc Bill Clinton went there. And the name just sounds WASPy.