OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT) Forum

[cron1834]

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[A. Nony Mouse]

I would not be freaked about OCI, at least not about your age. My experience may not be the most helpful because the biglaw market for my school was so small, but from that experience and based on what everyone here has said, grades and interview ability are a much bigger deal. Being in your 30s is just not a problem, especially if you're at a school where you have good biglaw chances to begin with and you have the qualifications for it. I do think you can run across employers who favor K-JD, but if you're applying to T14-numbers of firms, you're not going to have a problem finding plenty who don't.

(I didn't get biglaw for my 2L summer, but my law school market was such that about 12 people get true biglaw, and my grades were borderline for biglaw. I did get screeners, and my law school was all pre-select, so if age was an issue they didn't have to select me to start with. And I ended up with a (local) market-paying SA with a very good local firm. I had a lot of interview experience and my resume had nothing to do with law, or finance or IP or any of the other things that are supposed to be appealing to employers.)

The one thing I found frustrating about my age was not that people necessarily treated me differently, but that whenever there was any social/work weirdness, I wondered if it was my age. I don't actually think it was - I look younger than I am and I don't think anyone cared - but it was still easy to get paranoid about it.

[cron1834]

I would not be freaked about OCI, at least not about your age. My experience may not be the most helpful because the biglaw market for my school was so small, but from that experience and based on what everyone here has said, grades and interview ability are a much bigger deal. Being in your 30s is just not a problem, especially if you're at a school where you have good biglaw chances to begin with and you have the qualifications for it. I do think you can run across employers who favor K-JD, but if you're applying to T14-numbers of firms, you're not going to have a problem finding plenty who don't.

(I didn't get biglaw for my 2L summer, but my law school market was such that about 12 people get true biglaw, and my grades were borderline for biglaw. I did get screeners, and my law school was all pre-select, so if age was an issue they didn't have to select me to start with. And I ended up with a (local) market-paying SA with a very good local firm. I had a lot of interview experience and my resume had nothing to do with law, or finance or IP or any of the other things that are supposed to be appealing to employers.)

The one thing I found frustrating about my age was not that people necessarily treated me differently, but that whenever there was any social/work weirdness, I wondered if it was my age. I don't actually think it was - I look younger than I am and I don't think anyone cared - but it was still easy to get paranoid about it.

Thx, Mouse. I think you and I had similar pre-LS backgrounds, tho I may have "turned" on grad school before you did!

[acidwash]

hey, just wanted to briefly check in. i'm 30 and will graduate this May from a humanities PhD program. right now the plan is to adjunct for a year while i apply to law school, and begin law school fall 2016. my undergrad GPA kind of sucks (3.56), and although i have a 4.0 for my MA/PhD, i'm not sure if that would even count in the law school application process. studying for the LSAT and taking it in June. anyway, just wanted to say hello.

[spencercross]

hey, just wanted to briefly check in. i'm 30 and will graduate this May from a humanities PhD program. right now the plan is to adjunct for a year while i apply to law school, and begin law school fall 2016. my undergrad GPA kind of sucks (3.56), and although i have a 4.0 for my MA/PhD, i'm not sure if that would even count in the law school application process. studying for the LSAT and taking it in June. anyway, just wanted to say hello.

Welcome! Unfortunately, no, they don't really care about graduate GPA (which I totally don't understand). But unless you're dead set on HYS, your uGPA isn't actually that bad. And even then, if you crush the LSAT you'd still have a shot. Good luck!

[Hand]

hey, just wanted to briefly check in. i'm 30 and will graduate this May from a humanities PhD program. right now the plan is to adjunct for a year while i apply to law school, and begin law school fall 2016. my undergrad GPA kind of sucks (3.56), and although i have a 4.0 for my MA/PhD, i'm not sure if that would even count in the law school application process. studying for the LSAT and taking it in June. anyway, just wanted to say hello.

Welcome! Unfortunately, no, they don't really care about graduate GPA (which I totally don't understand). But unless you're dead set on HYS, your uGPA isn't actually that bad. And even then, if you crush the LSAT you'd still have a shot. Good luck!

Humanities PhDs FTW!

And yeah, it's your uGPA that counts. And your LSAT. Nothing to be done about the former, so crush the latter.

[acidwash]

Cool, thanks guys. That's good to know. Definitely planning to crush the LSAT, and definitely not set on HYS -- actually looking at Cornell as a top choice for me, for both professional and personal (SO) reasons. Psyched to get moving on this, good luck everyone.

[spencercross]

Cool, thanks guys. That's good to know. Definitely planning to crush the LSAT, and definitely not set on HYS -- actually looking at Cornell as a top choice for me, for both professional and personal (SO) reasons. Psyched to get moving on this, good luck everyone.

FWIW, Cornell's median GPA is only 3.68, so do well on the LSAT and you should have no problem.

[acidwash]

Cool, thanks guys. That's good to know. Definitely planning to crush the LSAT, and definitely not set on HYS -- actually looking at Cornell as a top choice for me, for both professional and personal (SO) reasons. Psyched to get moving on this, good luck everyone.

FWIW, Cornell's median GPA is only 3.68, so do well on the LSAT and you should have no problem.

Awesome, thanks. I'm lucky in that I should have plenty of time to study. I'm just revising my dissertation from now until my defense, which is not easy but not nearly as time consuming as any other part of the PhD has been.

[Rotor]

Experience matters, but that's a double-edged sword. Vets seem to do really well in law school hiring, even in their 30's. But I don't think people with "unimpressive" experience in their 30's do well at big firm hiring speficially. They seem to do fine (i.e., average relative to their law school performance) for public interest and other kinds of jobs. But I really think there's truth in the idea that biglaw is hesitant to hire people in their 30's.

I disagree with your statement. Having been on both sides of the interview table now, I think BigLaw is hesitant to hire people with unimpressive grades and experience. Impress in one or both of those areas and you have a shot. Being in your 30s won't be much of a hindrance.

I'm now a 48 year old associate at a top BigLaw firm. Sure I had some firms who probably wondered what in the heck I was thinking and dismissed me out of hand. But that just as easily could have been my unimpressive grades after 1L as much as my age. I definitely outperformed my grades.

[thetravelinglawyer]

Hi everyone! I'm 32 and applying for the coming cycle. I'm from the US but moved to Europe shortly after college (sold everything I owned and moved abroad to chase adventure!), now I'm being forced to go back to my hometown for 3-4 years (husband's work contract) and trying to decide what to do with myself. Law school has always been a dream, but I never thought I could really make it happen without moving back to the US. Now that I have no choice, it seems like fate is telling me that this is my chance to do it.

A little background, I'm an entrepreneur with several businesses, mostly in creative industries. I also do consulting/coaching for ultra-small-business owners (5 employees or less) in arts-based industries, and I do a lot of teaching about business, marketing, sales, finances, etc. That's really what I'm passionate about and want to pursue long term. I'd like to do a JD/MBA program to help strengthen my foundation and credentials and be able to help people more, as well as offering legal advice to SBOs in creative industries. After a lifetime of working for myself, I'm afraid I'm incapable of working for anyone else at this point, so after law school I'll do my own thing. I also normally travel full time, so I need a job I can telecommute for, and I want to have kids shortly after law school, so I'll need something I can do part time. Consulting through my own business seems like the perfect plan.

Anyway, I'm very stressed about the whole process because this all happened in the past couple of weeks, so I'm scrambling to figure out all the pieces. I realized about a week ago that I need to take the LSAT in October, so I'm spending every waking moment studying books and taking practice tests. So far I'm averaging high 160s on the practice tests so I'm really hoping to bump it up to at least 170. I'll be living in Dallas for the duration of my husband's contract so SMU, A&M, and UNT are really my only options. A full ride at SMU would be the best case scenario. My uGPA is dismal, 3.21, so there's that albatross to deal with. Hopefully my unusual WE and life circumstances will help, and I think I can write a killer essay. I have absolutely ZERO options for letters of recommendation. I've always worked for myself and have had no bosses or supervisors, my employees are mostly related to me, haven't kept up with any college professors or advisors, have no mentors or close colleagues. I have no clue what I'm going to do there. Advice definitely appreciated, if you have any. Feeling motivated but overwhelmed.

Whew, sorry for the long post! Thankful to know we old-timers aren't alone

[Sonar80]

Old-timer checking in. I'm 34 going to make a run at the top regional next year. Hoping to be the first application in, lol. At least where I am, there seems to be quite a few older guys going and making a good run of it, so I'm encouraged.

[ookoshi]

My uGPA is dismal, 3.21, so there's that albatross to deal with.

Given your target schools your uGPA won't really matter with a decent LSAT. Look at my profile and look at my stats and my cycle. And that was 2 1/2 years ago, when application numbers were still much higher than now. I didn't have the same problem with recommendation letters that you have, but I wouldn't worry too much about the cycle.

[acidwash]

I got a 161 on the June LSAT and am really going for 170+. With my 3.56 I'm hoping I can get into Cornell with a 170 LSAT, since my s/o is there doing a PhD. I think I can do it in October--the games have finally clicked for me, a few weeks after my first LSAT--but then there's the issue of, uh, paying for Cornell. No idea if that is at all feasible. I have a BA/MA/PhD in English lit and am lucky to have gotten all three without taking out any student loans, so I'm debt free. Can't really stomach the idea of going 200K+ in the hole at age 30, so I'm definitely going to be applying to other schools as well. Thing is I have dual US/European citizenship and we are thinking of moving to Holland eventually, and Cornell has an international law speciality that is really appealing to me. Good luck to everyone.

[RCSOB657]

31 today yay. Weird thing 2 others in my peer group had a birthday today and our class isn't that big.

[OLitch]

Checking in. I'm 34.

Is anyone doing a DS because of age/WE/family?

[hokie6260]

36 y/o checking in! Good to see I am in good company here. I am applying this cycle after I retake the LSAT in October. 3.4 LDAS GPA and getting out of the military to go to law school. Really shooting for South Carolina and UNC. Have to get my LSAT up though.....looking forward to chatting with everyone this cycle..good luck!

[PoopyPants]

Just checking in. I will be applying next cycle. I'm 31, but I'll be 32 when I apply. Pretty similar to hokie. I've got a 3.4 LDAS GPA and am in the military. I am actually applying for JAG IPP, so kind of hoping to stay in, but if not, I will get out and go to law school.

As for a DS, I'm not sure if I should write one. I was a FT nurse for a while, then went per diem when I started college. Then the economy tanked, and they started cancelling my days more and more, which eventually led to me being unemployed and homeless. I made a little money busking on the streets in NY until I hooked up with a band that played some real gigs, which actually let me get a job writing. After that, I went into the military so that I wouldn't become completely destroyed by my debt. I have some crazy stories from all of that, including the military (I'm writing about two of them in my PS). So, not sure how diverse that makes me.

There's something about writing about myself that I find almost repulsive. Not sure why.

[dabigchina]

The one thing I found frustrating about my age was not that people necessarily treated me differently, but that whenever there was any social/work weirdness, I wondered if it was my age. I don't actually think it was - I look younger than I am and I don't think anyone cared - but it was still easy to get paranoid about it.

this, by far is the one reason that i am kind of regretting going to law school.

ETA: just realized this was for people who are over 30. kinda just needed to vent because the people I have met are overwhelmingly K-JD

[OLitch]

The one thing I found frustrating about my age was not that people necessarily treated me differently, but that whenever there was any social/work weirdness, I wondered if it was my age. I don't actually think it was - I look younger than I am and I don't think anyone cared - but it was still easy to get paranoid about it.

this, by far is the one reason that i am kind of regretting going to law school.

ETA: just realized this was for people who are over 30. kinda just needed to vent because the people I have met are overwhelmingly K-JD

If this is where you feel comfortable then you should post here. Mental age trumps actual age.

[Sonar80]

I got accepted at the school I was hoping for, and during that time did a little visit/tour of the school. I asked around about being the oldest guy in class, and they all assured me I would not be. I saw some people older than me as well. The tour guide and admissions officers have told me that they like guys/gals in my age range because we tend to do better than the average LS. Like some of you guys, I am worried that the social aspect will be difficult to manage, but I'm hopeful it'll work out.

[elterrible78]

I got accepted at the school I was hoping for, and during that time did a little visit/tour of the school. I asked around about being the oldest guy in class, and they all assured me I would not be. I saw some people older than me as well. The tour guide and admissions officers have told me that they like guys/gals in my age range because we tend to do better than the average LS. Like some of you guys, I am worried that the social aspect will be difficult to manage, but I'm hopeful it'll work out.

Chances are it'll work out fine. Even if you're the oldest (and I am the oldest in my class), there will at least be people at least around your age. Also, you might be surprised to find that some of the younger students are not so bad after all. I think the fact that you're all going through the same experience -- albeit perhaps with different perspectives -- helps grease the wheels of social interaction. Of course, there will be a number of little shits, too, but they're easy to ignore. Finding a good core group of friends was one of the things that most helped make 1L year tolerable for me.

[KPUSN07]

Experience matters, but that's a double-edged sword. Vets seem to do really well in law school hiring, even in their 30's. But I don't think people with "unimpressive" experience in their 30's do well at big firm hiring speficially. They seem to do fine (i.e., average relative to their law school performance) for public interest and other kinds of jobs. But I really think there's truth in the idea that biglaw is hesitant to hire people in their 30's.

Yeah you make some good points. That's why I was clear to lay out my experience as a retiring vet - it does seem that right now, for whatever reason, being a vet is an advantage in the law school admissions process as well as hiring. For selfish reasons - I hope that doesn't change! You mentioned being 30 something - heck I'll be 42 when I graduate - and one of those 4 I mentioned above was 47 when he graduated. Us retired military also have the fortunate luxury of a pension check and virtually free medical insurance to fall back on - so we can kind of swing for the fences and land softly if we strike out.

I would also add, that to me (remember I am just a lowly 0L), the folks with accounting or engineering backgrounds seem to do well in niche areas like patent and tax law no matter what their age. I am forever the optimist though - I strongly believe that in any career field, if you stay at it, your persistence will eventually be rewarded with a good break - maybe Im naive in that respect.

Checking in here - 31 now and would start LS at age 33. Being a Vet helps with the admissions process; could you explain more as I am also a Vet leaning towards getting out and heading to LS (as alluded above).

[OLitch]

Experience matters, but that's a double-edged sword. Vets seem to do really well in law school hiring, even in their 30's. But I don't think people with "unimpressive" experience in their 30's do well at big firm hiring speficially. They seem to do fine (i.e., average relative to their law school performance) for public interest and other kinds of jobs. But I really think there's truth in the idea that biglaw is hesitant to hire people in their 30's.

Yeah you make some good points. That's why I was clear to lay out my experience as a retiring vet - it does seem that right now, for whatever reason, being a vet is an advantage in the law school admissions process as well as hiring. For selfish reasons - I hope that doesn't change! You mentioned being 30 something - heck I'll be 42 when I graduate - and one of those 4 I mentioned above was 47 when he graduated. Us retired military also have the fortunate luxury of a pension check and virtually free medical insurance to fall back on - so we can kind of swing for the fences and land softly if we strike out.

I would also add, that to me (remember I am just a lowly 0L), the folks with accounting or engineering backgrounds seem to do well in niche areas like patent and tax law no matter what their age. I am forever the optimist though - I strongly believe that in any career field, if you stay at it, your persistence will eventually be rewarded with a good break - maybe Im naive in that respect.

Checking in here - 31 now and would start LS at age 33. Being a Vet helps with the admissions process; could you explain more as I am also a Vet leaning towards getting out and heading to LS (as alluded above).

Welcome fellow vet! Check out the veterans thread for a lot of good information. The posters on that thread are really helpful.

My advice is to study for the LSAT like it is your job. Then, reach out to veterans from the schools you are interested in. You can really learn a lot about each school from fellow vets.

I am still in the process of applying so I am not the greatest resource. With that said, I am here to help anyway I can.

Good luck!

[unnamable]

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