2018 USNWR Rankings Forum

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

Am I the only one jazzed to be able to call Duke a T10 again?

[whysooseriousbiglaw]

LOL

Not surprised BoalTTT dropped - worst biglaw/fed clerk placement aside from Georgetown among the old T-14 plus a 166 average LSAT score....

GULC is a shithole, confirmed - something like 20% of its class graduates unemployed/underemployed.

[HYPSM]

TLS logic: If UT had a 70% biglaw placement, but only in Texas, it would still not be t14

I see where you're coming from, but the T14 was always about national reach as well. UT is a fantastic school but it has less national reach.

[RParadela]

The "DNC" tier of schools are objectively better than MV and B in employment numbers. M really shouldn't even be in the conversation. It's the 2nd worst T14 after Georgetown.

UVA > DNC

Don't lump UVA in with peasant schools like Berkely and Michigan

[whysooseriousbiglaw]

The "DNC" tier of schools are objectively better than MV and B in employment numbers. M really shouldn't even be in the conversation. It's the 2nd worst T14 after Georgetown.

UVA > DNC

Don't lump UVA in with peasant schools like Berkely and Michigan

BoalTTT has worse employment numbers than Michigan these days.

[wiz]

I wonder if Chicago passed Columbia because it's emphasizing GPA so much more. Didn't Spivey write a post about LSAT medians not affecting the USNWR ranking after a school reaches 170?

Yo real talk Spivey needs to get a life if he's doing analysis like that

I believe law school ranking consulting is a lucrative business. Berkeley faded Spivey's ranking models, and look what happened.

[grades??]

TLS logic: If UT had a 70% biglaw placement, but only in Texas, it would still not be t14

I see where you're coming from, but the T14 was always about national reach as well. UT is a fantastic school but it has less national reach.

Exactly. You don't go to UT to get a job in Chicago, but going to UVA could still get you a job in Chicago. UT just has less national reach, so if we are grouping the top schools by national reach, then UT is on the outside looking in. Hence now T13. UT is not a national school. It has good employment rates, but it isn't even a peer to Cornell in national reach. T13 it is.

[BigZuck]

Can we all just take a moment to laugh at Vandy? Haha what a garbage school.

[Rigo]

I don't get how rinky dink iowa is T20.

[PrezRand]

TLS logic: If UT had a 70% biglaw placement, but only in Texas, it would still not be t14

I see where you're coming from, but the T14 was always about national reach as well. UT is a fantastic school but it has less national reach.

Personally, I think national reach is overexaggerated. Most t14s self-select into a certain region. It wouldn't make sense to go to Cornell, Michigan, or Duke over Berkeley if you are from Cali or want to work there. Eventually, the resources at the respected school would simply cater to the region students voluntarily select into. If UT wanted to, I believe it could easily focus more on placing students nationally over time. But yes, UT Law has less national reach.

[futureellewoods123]

I don't get how rinky dink iowa is T20.

+1 lol

[BVest]

TLS logic: If UT had a 70% biglaw placement, but only in Texas, it would still not be t14

I see where you're coming from, but the T14 was always about national reach as well. UT is a fantastic school but it has less national reach.

Exactly. You don't go to UT to get a job in Chicago, but going to UVA could still get you a job in Chicago. UT just has less national reach, so if we are grouping the top schools by national reach, then UT is on the outside looking in. Hence now T13. UT is not a national school. It has good employment rates, but it isn't even a peer to Cornell in national reach. T13 it is.

Of the UT grads for whom location is reported, 81.9% are in Texas. Of the Cornell grads for whom location is reported, 79.6% are in NY. Now Cornell only has location numbers for about 2/3 of its grads, but based on the numbers we have and not the numbers we want to have, how exactly is UT not even a peer to Cornell in national reach?

(e: And no, I'm not arguing that UT must be considered a T14. But it is a good national school that happens to be located in a state with two very large legal markets).

[emkay625]

I'm just here to gloat

Same.

[tuesdayninja]

I don't get how rinky dink iowa is T20.

This is the sound I hear when I hear "Iowa". I don't get it.

[magnum_law]

Not to mention, UT placed 41.8% of grads in BL+FC.

THAT AIN'T NO "T14".

[chargers21]

Berkeley and Gtown dropping seems pretty easy to justify. They are super stingy with money and lose out on lots of intelligent candidates, the type of people who rationally take financial concerns into consideration when picking a school.

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

TLS logic: If UT had a 70% biglaw placement, but only in Texas, it would still not be t14

I see where you're coming from, but the T14 was always about national reach as well. UT is a fantastic school but it has less national reach.

Exactly. You don't go to UT to get a job in Chicago, but going to UVA could still get you a job in Chicago. UT just has less national reach, so if we are grouping the top schools by national reach, then UT is on the outside looking in. Hence now T13. UT is not a national school. It has good employment rates, but it isn't even a peer to Cornell in national reach. T13 it is.

Of the UT grads for whom location is reported, 81.9% are in Texas. Of the Cornell grads for whom location is reported, 79.6% are in NY. Now Cornell only has location numbers for about 2/3 of its grads, but based on the numbers we have and not the numbers we want to have, how exactly is UT not even a peer to Cornell in national reach?

(e: And no, I'm not arguing that UT must be considered a T14. But it is a good national school that happens to be located in a state with two very large legal markets).

That's a whole 2% difference!!!! /s

No but in all seriousness, it's a little unfair to say that because a similar % of Cornell grads are in NY they therefore have the same national ability as UT. NY tops almost every single T14 location, of course it's going to keep a lot of Cornell grads. While Texas may have two large markets, TX is not the largest destination of Duke or Penn Grads. We just aren't willing to give it the same BOTD based on that I think

[PrezRand]

Can we all just take a moment to laugh at Vandy? Haha what a garbage school.

[jbagelboy]

Harvard/Stanford/Chicago/Columbia will keep shifting again. It's just noise. I bet the raw numbers on those schools are extremely close together.

For Georgetown to fall completely out of the T14 and not even tie with UT first meant a substantial dive. I mean ouch.

I wonder how much this release will impact matriculation. Esp to Berk and GULC.

[magnum_law]

TLS logic: If UT had a 70% biglaw placement, but only in Texas, it would still not be t14

I see where you're coming from, but the T14 was always about national reach as well. UT is a fantastic school but it has less national reach.

Personally, I think national reach is overexaggerated. Most t14s self-select into a certain region. It wouldn't make sense to go to Cornell, Michigan, or Duke over Berkeley if you are from Cali or want to work there. Eventually, the resources at the respected school would simply cater to the region students voluntarily select into. If UT wanted to, I believe it could easily focus more on placing students nationally over time. But yes, UT Law has less national reach.

Moot point b/c UT only has a 33% biglaw placement. FAKE t14.

[BigZuck]

TLS logic: If UT had a 70% biglaw placement, but only in Texas, it would still not be t14

I see where you're coming from, but the T14 was always about national reach as well. UT is a fantastic school but it has less national reach.

Exactly. You don't go to UT to get a job in Chicago, but going to UVA could still get you a job in Chicago. UT just has less national reach, so if we are grouping the top schools by national reach, then UT is on the outside looking in. Hence now T13. UT is not a national school. It has good employment rates, but it isn't even a peer to Cornell in national reach. T13 it is.

Of the UT grads for whom location is reported, 81.9% are in Texas. Of the Cornell grads for whom location is reported, 79.6% are in NY. Now Cornell only has location numbers for about 2/3 of its grads, but based on the numbers we have and not the numbers we want to have, how exactly is UT not even a peer to Cornell in national reach?

(e: And no, I'm not arguing that UT must be considered a T14. But it is a good national school that happens to be located in a state with two very large legal markets).

Cornell bros obvi opt in to their VERY PRESTIGIOUS V83 New York firm while UT bros are tied down to their 4000 square foot house/wife in nowheresville USA.

[Sombra2017]

Can we all just take a moment to laugh at Vandy? Haha what a garbage school.

In all seriousness, why did they drop considering they did better than UT in big law and clerkship placement?

[PrezRand]

TLS logic: If UT had a 70% biglaw placement, but only in Texas, it would still not be t14

I see where you're coming from, but the T14 was always about national reach as well. UT is a fantastic school but it has less national reach.

Exactly. You don't go to UT to get a job in Chicago, but going to UVA could still get you a job in Chicago. UT just has less national reach, so if we are grouping the top schools by national reach, then UT is on the outside looking in. Hence now T13. UT is not a national school. It has good employment rates, but it isn't even a peer to Cornell in national reach. T13 it is.

Of the UT grads for whom location is reported, 81.9% are in Texas. Of the Cornell grads for whom location is reported, 79.6% are in NY. Now Cornell only has location numbers for about 2/3 of its grads, but based on the numbers we have and not the numbers we want to have, how exactly is UT not even a peer to Cornell in national reach?

(e: And no, I'm not arguing that UT must be considered a T14. But it is a good national school that happens to be located in a state with two very large legal markets).

That's a whole 2% difference!!!! /s

No but in all seriousness, it's a little unfair to say that because a similar % of Cornell grads are in NY they therefore have the same national ability as UT. NY tops almost every single T14 location, of course it's going to keep a lot of Cornell grads. While Texas may have two large markets, TX is not the largest destination of Duke or Penn Grads. We just aren't willing to give it the same BOTD based on that I think

Because most top law students want New York. That shouldn't really impact how good the school is

[dietcoke1]

I think all Berk has to do is hire some hot shot well known dean and their peer assessment score will rise

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

TLS logic: If UT had a 70% biglaw placement, but only in Texas, it would still not be t14

I see where you're coming from, but the T14 was always about national reach as well. UT is a fantastic school but it has less national reach.

Personally, I think national reach is overexaggerated. Most t14s self-select into a certain region. It wouldn't make sense to go to Cornell, Michigan, or Duke over Berkeley if you are from Cali or want to work there. Eventually, the resources at the respected school would simply cater to the region students voluntarily select into. If UT wanted to, I believe it could easily focus more on placing students nationally over time. But yes, UT Law has less national reach.

You're right, and if UT continues to own SXSW I think they have strength, but east coast is beast coast and until they can show they can place well in NYC or DC I don't think they'll be counted among the T14. As much as we're laughing about it, Boalt does show the ability to place in those areas if the applicant wants to. Yes there is obvious self-selection, but until the selection can be proved to be self there will be an asterisk.

This my same point about Cornell placement. Students can go elsewhere, but they choose NYC because it's where most students want to go. I haven't seen proof the UT placement is all about self-selection