CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size) Forum

[Hikikomorist]

Fun fact: In the Netherlands, you take a test when you're like 12 which determines what level of high school/their equivalent you can be in. Only those who make it into the top level can go to grad school (including law and med school). Also, once you're in the top level, you have to pursue some kind of grad school, or you have to pay the government back, since their government basically covers tuition for all schooling. At least this is what a law student from the Netherlands told me.

The idea of my future being determined at 12 sounds awful to me.

Yeah, that's definitely too young of an age without some reversibility in the system. Cognitive abilities haven't completely settled by that age, so you'd have people moving up and down slightly at the margins, meaning they would be assigned to the wrong track.

[krads153]

Fun fact: In the Netherlands, you take a test when you're like 12 which determines what level of high school/their equivalent you can be in. Only those who make it into the top level can go to grad school (including law and med school). Also, once you're in the top level, you have to pursue some kind of grad school, or you have to pay the government back, since their government basically covers tuition for all schooling. At least this is what a law student from the Netherlands told me.

The idea of my future being determined at 12 sounds awful to me.

Yeah, that's definitely too young of an age without some reversibility in the system. Cognitive abilities haven't completely settled by that age, so you'd have people moving up and down slightly at the margins, meaning they would be assigned to the wrong track.

On average, still better than what we have in the US. At least people who went to university would have jobs. And if you don't like the system, just move to the US and pay for (because literally anyone can get a bachelors in the US) a college degree here. You can basically buy a degree here. That's really what US universities care about - scamming dumb kids to pay 200k even with crappy employment prospects.

[RareExports]

Saint Louis University's class size is 173, up 8 from last year.

Source: Reports from orientation

[Pumpkin-Duke of Pie]

Fun fact: In the Netherlands, you take a test when you're like 12 which determines what level of high school/their equivalent you can be in. Only those who make it into the top level can go to grad school (including law and med school). Also, once you're in the top level, you have to pursue some kind of grad school, or you have to pay the government back, since their government basically covers tuition for all schooling. At least this is what a law student from the Netherlands told me.

The idea of my future being determined at 12 sounds awful to me.

That's because you're actually thinking.

[scone]

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[basedvulpes]

Post removed.

[krads153]

The entire university system in the US needs to be reformed though, from undergrad through grad level. As far as I'm concerned all universities are generally "for profit" scams, especially the private ones that charge like 50k tuition a year for, on average, no discernible employment benefit.

This. +100. Germany has it right cost wise, the UK has it right choice wise (A-levels, AA-levels, etc.). Hell, I don't think you can even apply to some schools in the UK if you don't have the scores for it. They will literally turn you down and bar you from applying. Bit strict and harsh (and I don't necessarily want to advocate for anything like this), but it can help cull class numbers and boost employment (however marginally or significantly) I'm sure.

In the UK, I think you apply first, interview, and if they accept you, they give you a conditional offer (so for Oxford/Cambridge and other top unis, it'd be like 3 As in A-levels relevant to your major). At other places it might be 2 As and a B, etc. You get your A-levels after the conditional offer. If you don't get the 3As, you get rejected. University is much cheaper there, you apply with a major in mind so you don't waste as much time doing irrelevant stuff, and it's only 3 years. They also don't have the "everyone deserves to go to college mentality" that is impractical in an economy that can't support so many college grads - it's all grades based, so only people who score well can go to university.

Most nations actually have a system like this (testing to weed people out at each educational level; if you don't have the grades, you can't go) - Asia is the same as Europe. I don't get why the US can't do something like that. The US is inclined to "baby" everyone when it doesn't even make sense for everyone to have a college degree. Right now there's too many college grads and not enough jobs. Plus the cost of college is insane.

There's so many universities in the UK that, in practice, most people can go to uni however bad their grades are - just not good unis. As a result, there's still a glut of grads & an 'eveyone deserves to go to uni' mentality.

The early specialization in the UK is not really all that great. I don't think it makes sense for people to specialize age 15 or 16 - who knows what they want to be at that age! Especially as you can typically only choose three subjects to study at A-level, and usually have to major (well, study exclusively in fact) in one of them at college.

Yeah, but university is so comparatively cheap there that it doesn't matter as much if you waste 3 year in school. I remember a few years ago when Oxbridge students were protesting about fees - it was still like 1/5th of the US cost, if that. I don't know if it's still that cheap, but I remember thinking that it was a joke compared to fees here. At a lot of the lower ranked unis, tuition is cheap as hell.

There are benefits/cons to specialization. I think they have, on average, a better education in that field. They probably have, on average, better math/science programs. Honestly, I'm not sure having people decide at 18/19 what to major in makes that big of a difference as compared to 15/16. Unless you have tons of money, you probably wouldn't spend 6 years in college changing majors, etc. right. I think most people in the US have to pick a major by second year, when you're 19. And there's not that many units to let you "explore" your freshman year anyway. I went into uni knowing what I wanted to study, and I ended up doing it. I think a lot of people are the same way, or at least decide by the time they are 19.

[scone]

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[Hikikomorist]

Yeah, but university is so comparatively cheap there that it doesn't matter as much if you waste 3 year in school. I remember a few years ago when Oxbridge students were protesting about fees - it was still like 1/5th of the US cost, if that. At a lot of the lower ranked unis, tuition is cheap as hell.

Fees are now £9,000 across the board in the UK, and living costs are typically very high (and at top unis you can't work while you're a student) so total costs often exceed ~$25,000 a year, more in London. Cheaper, but not cheap!

How's the availability of merit scholarships over there?

[Aquila]

can mods create a separate educational system debate thread... it has nothing to do with the medians and is totally off-topic

[rnoodles]

Yeah, but university is so comparatively cheap there that it doesn't matter as much if you waste 3 year in school. I remember a few years ago when Oxbridge students were protesting about fees - it was still like 1/5th of the US cost, if that. At a lot of the lower ranked unis, tuition is cheap as hell.

Fees are now £9,000 across the board in the UK, and living costs are typically very high (and at top unis you can't work while you're a student) so total costs often exceed ~$25,000 a year, more in London. Cheaper, but not cheap!

FWIW, I'd pay $25K for an Oxbridge education over ~65K for a run of the mill private school education.

[fredfred]

Yeah, but university is so comparatively cheap there that it doesn't matter as much if you waste 3 year in school. I remember a few years ago when Oxbridge students were protesting about fees - it was still like 1/5th of the US cost, if that. At a lot of the lower ranked unis, tuition is cheap as hell.

Fees are now £9,000 across the board in the UK, and living costs are typically very high (and at top unis you can't work while you're a student) so total costs often exceed ~$25,000 a year, more in London. Cheaper, but not cheap!

FWIW, I'd pay $25K for an Oxbridge education over ~65K for a run of the mill private school education.

While I was a masters/phd student at Oxbridge it was always interesting to talk to undergrads who complained about the cost of the education and then explain to them how much it costs to attend a US college or university for 4 years. Most would immediately shut up.

[PeanutsNJam]

FWIW the rumored WUSTL class this year is 220, which is -50 from last year. I'll walk around orientation with a clipboard asking for everybody's GPA/LSAT and report back here with the medians don't worry guys.

for the gullible: not really

[chuckbass]

FWIW the rumored WUSTL class this year is 220, which is -50 from last year. I'll walk around orientation with a clipboard asking for everybody's GPA/LSAT and report back here with the medians don't worry guys.

for the gullible: not really

Glad they went back down

[scone]

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[xylocarp]

can mods create a separate educational system debate thread... it has nothing to do with the medians and is totally off-topic

Feel free to create a thread and link it here. We could have a separate discussion/commentary thread and use this one only for reporting medians.

[RareExports]

FWIW the rumored WUSTL class this year is 220, which is -50 from last year. I'll walk around orientation with a clipboard asking for everybody's GPA/LSAT and report back here with the medians don't worry guys.

for the gullible: not really

I heard quite a bit lower than 220.

[Huskies13!]

ALERT--WEST VIRGINIA is UP. I repeat, WVU is UP!
http://wvutoday.wvu.edu/n/2015/08/12/me ... ss-of-2018
Class size is 103 (-4)
LSAT 153 (-1)
GPA 3.35 (-.08)

The world shakes...

[whitespider]

UC Davis

163 (+1)
3.51 (-.09)

180 Enrolled (+16)

https://law.ucdavis.edu/blogs/deans/pos ... -2018.html

[whitespider]

Georgia Law

162 (-1)
3.71 (+.01)

190 Enrolled (+5)

http://www.law.uga.edu/news/46131

[dontrogerthat]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but Lewis and Clark

LSAT 158
GPA 3.32 (-.02)
Class 175 (-28)

https://law.lclark.edu/offices/admissio ... s_profile/

[chuckbass]

whitespider <3

[WichitaShocker]

whitespider <3

[ms9]

Berkeley's numbers weren't that different from UCLA's already, it'll be interesting to see what happens there

I suspect we are soon going to see a host of the 167 schools drop down the 166. Not all of them, but more of them.

[monsterman]

I would bet UVA's LSAT goes down to 168. There seem to have been quite a few TLSers that got the Dillard with a really high GPA and a 168 LSAT score