C/O 2017 Median LSAT/GPA/Class Size Forum

[stellina]

Not arguing its TTTT status.

But I'd for sure recommend it to someone in the Nashville area who can't get into Vandy or UTK but really wants to be a lawyer. $20k spread out over 4 years while also working is a totally acceptable cost to pursue that dream, even if you don't know what the employment success rate is.

It's fine for a law school to cater to a more disadvantaged demographic. This isn't medicine, no one's going to die if the lawyer you hire sucks.

it's almost $30k actually
tuition goes up 4L year
+ books
+ possible loan fees/interest

Ok.. so $25,591 + books over four years. And I doubt there would be much, if anything, in loans/interest considering you would be working full-time. This changes nothing.

Let's even say someone got into UTK at sticker:

That's $155k debt at graduation. Plus likely being unemployed at graduation (non-biglaw usually hires after bar results) with a 3 year employment gap.

Versus debt-free (or close) and employed at another job that you've been working at for the last four years as a backup.

I'm all for going to a truly reputable school, but..

[McAvoy]

But the point is that a desired job with real authority like a prosecutor is going to be filled (and is already filled) by an at least semi-competent person.

all right you convinced me
we should be confident in semi-competent people to make life-or-death decisions when administering justice in the deep south

[03152016]

it's throwing away $30k + opportunity cost
we don't even know how the school places
you might as well send them to cousin larry's law learning barnyard

[stellina]

But the point is that a desired job with real authority like a prosecutor is going to be filled (and is already filled) by an at least semi-competent person.

all right you convinced me
we should be confident in semi-competent people to make life-or-death decisions when administering justice in the deep south

It's going to be more difficult to find highly competent people to work as a prosecutor in Clay County, KY than it is in New York County, NY. But that's bc you're selecting between above median UK grads rather than top of their class YHS grads.

Doesn't have anything to do with whether schools like NSOL are a good thing.

[Hand]

it's throwing away $30k + opportunity cost
we don't even know how the school places
you might as well send them to cousin larry's law learning barnyard

Sure, it's obviously far from the best way of spending their time and money. But there's a good number of people out there who want to go to law school no matter what, and nobody is going to tell them otherwise, let employment statistics be damned. In a perfect world, people would not pursue this ambition if they are not capable of getting even a median score on the LSAT, etc. etc. But here we are. Given that the world is imperfect in this way, is it a good thing or a bad thing that there are some institutions that charge tuition that just covers operating costs, where these people can pursue this dream without incurring crippling debt or giving up their full-time job?

[McAvoy]

But the point is that a desired job with real authority like a prosecutor is going to be filled (and is already filled) by an at least semi-competent person.

all right you convinced me
we should be confident in semi-competent people to make life-or-death decisions when administering justice in the deep south

It's going to be more difficult to find highly competent people to work as a prosecutor in Clay County, KY than it is in New York County, NY. But that's bc you're selecting between above median UK grads rather than top of their class YHS grads.

Doesn't have anything to do with whether schools like NSOL are a good thing.

I didn't say anything about that, again. Only said that what you said was stupid.

[stellina]

it's throwing away $30k + opportunity cost
we don't even know how the school places
you might as well send them to cousin larry's law learning barnyard

The opportunity cost of going to class/doing readings instead of going out with friends on some nights? You know it's night school, right?

"Throwing away"? I dunno, I put some value on someone's dream of becoming a lawyer.

"Places" is kind of a weird idea too for a school like this. T14s place people, in that there are positions that are pretty well set up specifically for grads of those schools. A school doesn't really "place" people in shitlaw.

[McAvoy]

A school doesn't really "place" people in shitlaw.

yeah burt it shits them there

[03152016]

even activities done after 5 pm have opportunity costs
there are literally hundreds of more productive uses of their time

and sure, i'm all for people wanting to become a practicing attorney
but do you have any data that suggests a reasonable number of people actually achieve this goal from nashville?
why not just send them to cousin larry's?

[stellina]

But the point is that a desired job with real authority like a prosecutor is going to be filled (and is already filled) by an at least semi-competent person.

all right you convinced me
we should be confident in semi-competent people to make life-or-death decisions when administering justice in the deep south

It's going to be more difficult to find highly competent people to work as a prosecutor in Clay County, KY than it is in New York County, NY. But that's bc you're selecting between above median UK grads rather than top of their class YHS grads.

Doesn't have anything to do with whether schools like NSOL are a good thing.

I didn't say anything about that, again. Only said that what you said was stupid.

Ok.. if we're going to split hairs: I never said that we should be confident in a semi-competent prosecutor. Just that they were filled by at least semi-competent people (as opposed to "stupid-as-shit" people). That's a statement of fact. How is that stupid?

edit: I think I see where we're getting offtrack. When I say semi-competent, I mean that above-median state flagship grad. I'm an elitist. Those people are, in actuality, most assuredly not "stupid as shit" that would create a danger in the same way that an unintelligent doctor would. Christ.

[Hand]

even activities done after 5 pm have opportunity costs
there are literally hundreds of more productive uses of their time

and sure, i'm all for people wanting to become a practicing attorney
but do you have any data that suggests a reasonable number of people actually achieve this goal from nashville?
why not just send them to cousin larry's?

cousin larry's bar passage rates are probably <60%

[stellina]

even activities done after 5 pm have opportunity costs
there are literally hundreds of more productive uses of their time

and sure, i'm all for people wanting to become a practicing attorney
but do you have any data that suggests a reasonable number of people actually achieve this goal from nashville?
why not just send them to cousin larry's?

cousin larry's bar passage rates are probably <60%

This.

I think people are confusing the fact that they would never go to NSOL (nor would anyone they know) with the idea that it doesn't make sense for anyone.

[03152016]

so when you pass the bar, that means you are employed as a practicing lawyer?

[Callsam]

Stop wasting your time arguing over a tttt no one on this forum is going to attend

[ilikebaseball]

people just try to find reasons to argue on these forums. like its so stupid. who gives a shit. no one thinks any more of you if you're right or wrong and it doesnt even affect 99.9% of us anyway.

[03152016]

no i have a 50% stake in cousin larry's law learning barnyard
and nashville is bleeding us dry

[stellina]

so when you pass the bar, that means you are employed as a practicing lawyer?

No, but I've seen several lawyers on here (Scrooge McDuck?) say that once you're outside of T1/biglaw, and especially when talking about shitlaw, school name doesn't really matter that much.

But really, they should just spend that $25k on a Toyota Camry. Just give up before trying. Much happier with a new car. Definitely will have no regrets.

[bjsesq]

Cousin Larry Appleton?

[03152016]

the cable guy

[Moneytrees]

Stellina just because a school is better than another TTT doesn't mean it's necessarily a good option, even for people with low LSAT scores. If you score in the 140's on the LSAT, I really don't think you should be going to law school. It just doesn't make any sense for a variety of reasons. You view it as "it's only 30k", but in reality, it's time wasted for the majority of students going to Nashville, because only 60% or less pass the bar, and those that do pass it will struggle mightily to find a job.

So sure, I understand your argument that Nashville is not the worst offender out there, and that it serves a purpose for a tiny number of people. But shouldn't there be more of an emphasis on educating prospective that going to law school with an extremely low LSAT (we are talking bottom 25%, which is truly atrocious) is virtually always a bad idea? I get that realistically there will always be stubborn people who will want to go to law school no matter what, but shouldn't the goal be to inform and eventually steer some of these people away from law school?

[Moneytrees]

Any word on UC Irvine's medians?

[NYCFAN1]

so when you pass the bar, that means you are employed as a practicing lawyer?

No, but I've seen several lawyers on here (Scrooge McDuck?) say that once you're outside of T1/biglaw, and especially when talking about shitlaw, school name doesn't really matter that much.

But really, they should just spend that $25k on a Toyota Camry. Just give up before trying. Much happier with a new car. Definitely will have no regrets.

"T1" means nothing

more like outside of the t14/maybe t20

[03152016]

it's never not funny when someone posts "i'm at a T45" or something

[jbagelboy]

confused about gulc

seems like everyone in the EIW thread got a jerb, even from bottom third

I know there's a selection bias and only successful ppl are posting but still. offer results and firm cutoffs don't seem different from the rest of the lower T14. definitely cheerier then I expected.

[Attax]

so when you pass the bar, that means you are employed as a practicing lawyer?

No, but consider the role a community school like this can have. It is cheap, affordable. I'm sure that most people attending are not trying to become practicing attorneys. This is merely speculative, but I imagine it is mostly people with small business, landlords, etc. who are viewing it as a way to get the legal education to save on lawyer expenses, or simply because they think it will help in running their own business. Hopefully most people at a school like that aren't disillusioned enough to think they're going to biglaw.