OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT) Forum

[ahduth]

Yeah, I'm a little confused about all of this LEEWS stuff and whatever, as I thought we were only tested on what was presented/assigned in class. I suppose I am kind of nervous at not having taken a test in the past ten years (other than the CFA and the LSAT), but I always did fine before. None of my classwork before was graded on a curve, so that will definitely be new. But it doesn't seem to change the fundamental dynamic of providing the best possible responses to the test questions.

And the amount of work doesn't seem outlandish. The high end estimate in one of the threads regarding the amount of reading was 450 pages per week, and people were saying probably 10 pages per hour, which is only 45 hours per week. Add in time for classes, and it's like... having a job.

I guess I'm saving my freak out period for mid-November through late December.

Read "Getting to Maybe" is my advice. It helped me know what sorts of things they test for, and what they want.

Yeah, I'm going to read that and "1L Confidential" once I get all this move stuff wrapped up. It's more the people studying actual content that I don't get. I guess everyone has their own jam for getting pumped up for the start of actual classes.

[northwood]

I dont see the point in learning something that you have no idea about. Sounds like a great way to get all confused- or to learn things the wrong way, which means you then have to unlearn it, forget that, and re learn it according to your prof's specs.


Exam taking tecniques i can see. the rest, not so much

[firemed]

I dont see the point in learning something that you have no idea about. Sounds like a great way to get all confused- or to learn things the wrong way, which means you then have to unlearn it, forget that, and re learn it according to your prof's specs.


Exam taking tecniques i can see. the rest, not so much

I read the first chapter of a constitutional law E&E... not so much to learn (though it was interesting), but more just to see what the level of difficulty was and whether or not I would be bored stiff. It helped my confidence a lot to realize that I could understand and even feel somewhat confident with the material.

[kalvano]

Just wait until you get to the Rule Against Perpetuities.

[kalvano]

None of my classwork before was graded on a curve, so that will definitely be new. But it doesn't seem to change the fundamental dynamic of providing the best possible responses to the test questions.

The difference is they won't really ask a specific question. Typically, it will be a set of facts and then they will ask something like "What are little Johnny's legal options" and you have to go through all of them. Literally all of them. Don't skip over something because it's obvious and basic.

Anyway, since you all are about to start school and are getting settled, I guess if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask or PM. I just turned 31, left a pretty good career for law school, married, homeowner, a lot of the same stuff you all are going through and did pretty alright my first year. So if I can be of any help, let me know.

[JazzOne]

I dont see the point in learning something that you have no idea about. Sounds like a great way to get all confused- or to learn things the wrong way, which means you then have to unlearn it, forget that, and re learn it according to your prof's specs.


Exam taking tecniques i can see. the rest, not so much

I read the first chapter of a constitutional law E&E... not so much to learn (though it was interesting), but more just to see what the level of difficulty was and whether or not I would be bored stiff. It helped my confidence a lot to realize that I could understand and even feel somewhat confident with the material.

The E&Es are a bit dumbed down. You should expect the class material to be more difficult.

Don't get me wrong. I like the E&Es, and they are helpful, but the case material is just tougher to interpret.

[kalvano]

Also, Constitutional Law is one of the more interesting classes. It's easier to pay attention to or not be bored by.

[JazzOne]

Also, Constitutional Law is one of the more interesting classes. It's easier to pay attention to or not be bored by.

+1

Try reading the contracts E&E. lol

[kalvano]

Heh. Since most everyone in this thread is old enough -

For anyone interested.

--LinkRemoved--

Pearl Jam Twenty chronicles the years leading up to the band’s formation, the chaos that ensued soon-after their rise to megastardom, their step back from center stage, and the creation of a trusted circle that would surround them—giving way to a work culture that would sustain them. Told in big themes and bold colors with blistering sound, the film is carved from over 1,200 hours of rarely-seen and never-before seen footage spanning the band’s career. Pearl Jam Twenty is the definitive portrait of Pearl Jam: part concert film, part intimate insider-hang, part testimonial to the power of music and uncompromising artists.

Written and directed by Cameron Crowe.

[Rotor]

Just wait until you get to the Rule Against Perpetuities.

My Property class was @$$-kicking hard and the prof was one of those big-brain guys who couldn't quite understand why everyone wasn't a property savant.

That said, he got to RAP and said: "Lots of classes spend a week or more on this topic. We will be doing it in a day and I won't test it. If, in the future, you get a RAP issue, go find co-counsel who is an expert."

And for that I will always be appreciative.

[keg411]

Just wait until you get to the Rule Against Perpetuities.

My Property class was @$$-kicking hard and the prof was one of those big-brain guys who couldn't quite understand why everyone wasn't a property savant.

That said, he got to RAP and said: "Lots of classes spend a week or more on this topic. We will be doing it in a day and I won't test it. If, in the future, you get a RAP issue, go find co-counsel who is an expert."

And for that I will always be appreciative.

My Property prof was awesome and a genius and even she didn't understand the RAP. She made the ones on our exam ultra-easy.

BTW, for all the soon-to-be-1L's, I Just want to let you know that it is totally normal to be nervous right now. I was absolutely terrified last year and thought I was making a horrible mistake -- and it ended up working out really well for me. Whatever the naysayers think, I personally believe there is a major advantage to coming in with work experience and life perspective.

[pkt63]

Exam taking tecniques i can see. the rest, not so much

On that note...I was looking at getting LEEWS, just so as not to completely let my Don't Worry Be Happy attitude screw me over. And I was wondering how helpful it is before I even start classes. Anyone done it and can say? Should I get it and save it for a month or two down the line?

[Lisi]

I read Getting to Maybe and found it pretty interesting. I'm reading through a recommended supplement on Contracts right now. Basically, I'm curious about how the author uses the language (which in law is, as expected, somewhat stilted) and what he sees as the main issues of the various cases within a particular context or statute. I'm not underlining or trying to learn it. I'm happy to find that I'm not as bored, and the issues are not as dry, as I expected.

I'm not freaking out about law school yet for various reasons: 1) I don't start until the end of September (and I still have to deal with some paper work, plus moving, etc.) 2) though my experiences being graded on a curve only helped me (think big econ classes in college with lots of less-than-motivated students), I'm pretty sure all non-science majors have little experience being graded on a curve - so I'm at no disadvantage. 3) the curves seem to seriously cluster around the median (at least for Chicago), and I'm pretty sure employers don't notice a point or two off the median, so basically, you're either a rock star (top 10%), average (middle 80%), or in trouble (bottom 10%) -- I'm pretty sure I'll be average. 4) I spent the past several years teaching very bright undergrads, but it doesn't strike me as though they are more prepared just b/c they've been in school recently. For most undergrads, the concept of "working hard" includes all the work they do for the extra curricular activities... they don't "work" like grad students or people who have had serious professional work experience (as opposed to a "year off"). So while those out of undergrad may be faster test takers, I don't think they're as prepared for the drudgery of law school work (e.g. actually doing 90-100% of the reading). So it should balance out. Optimism people!!!

[firemed]

Also, Constitutional Law is one of the more interesting classes. It's easier to pay attention to or not be bored by.

+1

Try reading the contracts E&E. lol

Thanks for destroying my confidence!

[Lawst]

I just read this book called 1L of a Ride (yeah, cheesy name), and I thought it did a good job of demystifying some of the things a 1L will encounter - or at least it seemed like it did. It's written by a torts prof. I'm just starting Getting to Maybe now. I like having some idea of what to expect.

[ahduth]

I just read this book called 1L of a Ride (yeah, cheesy name), and I thought it did a good job of demystifying some of the things a 1L will encounter - or at least it seemed like it did. It's written by a torts prof. I'm just starting Getting to Maybe now. I like having some idea of what to expect.

Ah, I meant this book rather than 1L Confidential. You liked it then? I still haven't bought either of them, but I just moved. I'm claiming post-move celebratory status as my reason.

1L Confidential seemed relevant, because it was written by an actual law school professor. GTM seemed more important in the end, however, as all I'm looking to do is murder the exams.

[homestyle28]

How's everybody in this thread holding up now that things are rolling? I waiver between enjoyment/confidence and crushing insecurity myself...a lot of late nights and early mornings to get in the work and family time! Also, a serious annoyance with the youngs who come to class w/o getting the work done...I'm fitting it in, I can't imagine why they're not!

[pkt63]

Funny you should post with an update. I was just thinking of doing the same this afternoon. I don't have kids, so less time pressure, though I find my time quite filled with reading as well as extracurriculars. The great thing is, I really enjoy the reading, so even though I have found myself at the library until 9pm a time or two, the hours have flown by and I haven't begrudged the time too much. So overall, I think I made a good choice (so far) in coming to LS and I also think I made a great choice of schools as I am *loving* it here. Not only the general area, community, etc, but the LS is so proactive and filled with things to keep you on your toes in more that just school work. I have between 2-4 lunches I want to attend most days between extracurriculars, seminar type presentations and CDO presentations. I'm also really impressed with my school's academic support, we are doing some midterms in classes and getting extensive feedback so that we can do our best on the finals (which will still be worth like 90%). One professor is giving us extensive feedback and we are a class of 90! She has an impressive professional record, but like, what a dedicated educator, as well!

I also feel like my work experience has helped me cope with LS. I don't feel stressed at all, even though I have two papers this week, a set of citation exercises, an outline for our third(ish) memo and training for my clinic and journal. I've heard several young's mention something related to mini-breakdowns or crying at night. And I am nowhere near that. Like, not even worried at all. This is cake, and I know these young's will probably be grateful in the future for being able to go through this in such a supportive environment.

On the other hand, the old thing is a bit of a bummer. Lots of people are married, so it's not that. But, it just feels a tad...like an elephant in the room sometimes. I spend my day looking at younger people and then when I look in the mirror, I'm reminded of how much I don't look like them. That it is an obvious thing, not subtle (and I don't even have gray hair!). I'm probably partially being self-conscious, added to the fact that I'm so used to be around older, not younger people, but I'm not connecting *as much* on the social level as maybe others, or as much as I'd want to.

Interested to hear from others!

[delusional]

Hey guys! I'm still here and still old. It's really great - I don't know if it's coming from working or what but I definitely have a lot more focus now than I did when I was my classmates' age. It's a little weird to be in the same class as people much younger than I am, but although I'm on the older end of the spectrum it's not like I'm the only one who's not 22.

It's a little funny because I was so out of school, even during my last couple years in school, and now I'm with a number of people who are just so... school-ish. They squeal at the mention of alcohol and giggle when they see a teacher outside of class... Makes me feel like a grandfather sometimes. I used to go to the mall and think how strange it was to see "kids" walking around in pajamas... Now those same kids are sitting next to me in class... in pajamas.

I think that having a family and living away from the campus are an advantage and a disadvantage. It is hard to socialize when you're only there as long as you have work to do, and I find it hard to get back to the area of campus when people are getting together. I think it's most difficult when it comes to the actual work - I see others forming study groups and stuff, but I don't really have the time, nor the social interaction to try it.

At the same time, it's an advantage because it forces me to stay focused for a clearly delineated time. I am at school an hour before class because I need to be - I know that if I had a choice, my personality is such that I'd be racing into class missing a book three minutes after class started. Also, it keeps me a little distracted without throwing me totally off. If I was younger and single I would either be obsessing about school too much, or getting too distracted.

[homestyle28]

I think that having a family and living away from the campus are an advantage and a disadvantage. It is hard to socialize when you're only there as long as you have work to do, and I find it hard to get back to the area of campus when people are getting together. I think it's most difficult when it comes to the actual work - I see others forming study groups and stuff, but I don't really have the time, nor the social interaction to try it.

This has been a significant part of my experience so far...it's a bit lonely to sort of be flying solo when you see everyone else forming groups, but I didn't really expect to be super social.

[ahduth]

I think that having a family and living away from the campus are an advantage and a disadvantage. It is hard to socialize when you're only there as long as you have work to do, and I find it hard to get back to the area of campus when people are getting together. I think it's most difficult when it comes to the actual work - I see others forming study groups and stuff, but I don't really have the time, nor the social interaction to try it.

This has been a significant part of my experience so far...it's a bit lonely to sort of be flying solo when you see everyone else forming groups, but I didn't really expect to be super social.

Pretty sure my classmates are trying to murder me with alcohol.

[r6_philly]

How's everybody in this thread holding up now that things are rolling? I waiver between enjoyment/confidence and crushing insecurity myself...a lot of late nights and early mornings to get in the work and family time! Also, a serious annoyance with the youngs who come to class w/o getting the work done...I'm fitting it in, I can't imagine why they're not!

Plus one on everything except I am firmly on the enjoyment side! You will be fine since you come prepared even though you have a lot more on your plate.

[sarahmargie]

I am 31 right now and I won't start law school until I'm 32. I start in August of 2012 assuming any law school is foolish enough to accept me. I have five children and one husband. I live in Texas. Sometimes I think I'm really old, but then I think we over-30's really make up at least 25% of each year's incoming class, judging by the size of this thread. I don't think that holds true in the highest ranking schools. In fact, average age of first year class and USNWR ranking probably have an inverse correlation... But I don't know. I would be interested to find out.

Still, I wonder if I can get the cute 1L boys to call me Mama.

[weee]

Hello fellow 30+ers, count me in as another that feels good about his choice to go to law school a little later in life compared to my class mates.

Best of luck to those of you just starting your 1L, represent for the "grown ups."

[northwood]

I may be an elder student, but i've come to the conclusion that mentally, im still in pre kindergarten...

oh well, forever mentally young i am