OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT) Forum

[firemed]

Happy Fathers Day to those it applies to!

[oldhippie]

made for this thread!!!!!

http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/ ... eshow.html

<3 choose your own adventures!!!

[DocHawkeye]

MY WIFE GOT A JOB! I took the phone call for her this morning. It's not ideal - its in a city about an hour away from where I'll be going to school but nonetheless IT'S A JOB! We will probably live closer to her work and I'm used to a long commute (been commuting an hour each way for 6 years). Now we need to find a place to live and figure hout how we're going to move but all of the major hurdles seem to be over now.

[oldhippie]

MY WIFE GOT A JOB! I took the phone call for her this morning. It's not ideal - its in a city about an hour away from where I'll be going to school but nonetheless IT'S A JOB! We will probably live closer to her work and I'm used to a long commute (been commuting an hour each way for 6 years). Now we need to find a place to live and figure hout how we're going to move but all of the major hurdles seem to be over now.

congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that must feel wonderful, it's so nice when things start to fall into place...

[doak35]

I'm maybe not quite old enough to be posting here (28) but I feel this thread is pretty on par with my dilemma
I have gotten pretty bad cold feet about leaving a good job for law school.
I'm curious how many from the "older" more established crowd are looking at law school purely from a financial / get a higher paying job vs a new challenge.
I've started to think that I'm somewhat crazy to leave a job paying around 6 figures just because I am bored and not interested in it (plus some concerns about the viability of the industry it's in - online marketing). I've always thought law would be more engaging and a better fit for my personality but I'm worried that it's too risky a change given the current economy & would jepordize myself and fiancée and set us back too much - more in terms of time and opportunity cost than purely financially (I have a scholarship & enough money to not take on debt).
Sorry if this post is a bit tough to read, hard typing a long post on an iPhone

[ElvisAaron]

I'm maybe not quite old enough to be posting here (28) but I feel this thread is pretty on par with my dilemma
I have gotten pretty bad cold feet about leaving a good job for law school.
I'm curious how many from the "older" more established crowd are looking at law school purely from a financial / get a higher paying job vs a new challenge.
I've started to think that I'm somewhat crazy to leave a job paying around 6 figures just because I am bored and not interested in it (plus some concerns about the viability of the industry it's in - online marketing). I've always thought law would be more engaging and a better fit for my personality but I'm worried that it's too risky a change given the current economy & would jepordize myself and fiancée and set us back too much - more in terms of time and opportunity cost than purely financially (I have a scholarship & enough money to not take on debt).
Sorry if this post is a bit tough to read, hard typing a long post on an iPhone

You are in the same mindset I was in a few months ago.
I'm leaving a six figure job because I don't love it, am not challenged anymore, have reached a ceiling and have become bored. I always wanted to be a lawyer, so fuck it dude, lets go bowling.
Yep, its crazy, but I'm betting on two things:
1. I like law as much as I think I do
2. If I can start from the bottom and make it to the top once, I can do it again
There are many ancillary reasons, but those are primary. So for me, its definitely not about the money. Its about wanting to be happy doing a job that is continually challenging and fulfilling, and for that I'm willing to give up a career that by all accounts is very successful, burn through our savings, cash in my 401k, and take some loans to keep supporting my family and paying the mortgage while I chase a dream. (I should add that I'm very lucky to have a very supportive S/O who, in all likelihood, believes in me even more than I do.)

"It is never too late to be what you might have been."
— George Eliot

"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly."
- Robert F. Kennedy

[oldhippie]

So for me, its definitely not about the money. Its about wanting to be happy doing a job that is continually challenging and fulfilling, and for that I'm willing to give up a career that by all accounts is very successful, burn through our savings, cash in my 401k, and take some loans to keep supporting my family and paying the mortgage while I chase a dream. (I should add that I'm very lucky to have a very supportive S/O who, in all likelihood, believes in me even more than I do.)

"It is never too late to be what you might have been."
— George Eliot

"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly."
- Robert F. Kennedy

well said.
this says it beautifully for me as well. is it logical? nope. are people (in laws) telling me i'm insane and "too smart for my own good"? yep. but it still feels right for me despite the occasional waking up in a cold sweat wondering what it will be like to not have a paycheck. i trust that this is the next step and i can't wait to see what comes of it!

[northwood]

So for me, its definitely not about the money. Its about wanting to be happy doing a job that is continually challenging and fulfilling, and for that I'm willing to give up a career that by all accounts is very successful, burn through our savings, cash in my 401k, and take some loans to keep supporting my family and paying the mortgage while I chase a dream. (I should add that I'm very lucky to have a very supportive S/O who, in all likelihood, believes in me even more than I do.)

"It is never too late to be what you might have been."
— George Eliot

"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly."
- Robert F. Kennedy

well said.
this says it beautifully for me as well. is it logical? nope. are people (in laws) telling me i'm insane and "too smart for my own good"? yep. but it still feels right for me despite the occasional waking up in a cold sweat wondering what it will be like to not have a paycheck. i trust that this is the next step and i can't wait to see what comes of it!

What i say to others and to myself is this> When you are old and on your deathbed- will you wonder what if i gave law schol a shot? Or will you be happy with how your current life plays out? IF its the latter- then give it another year and decide. IF you are the former ( like I am) then go to law school. TO be honest it took me an extra year to realize this- and now that ie committed to it- im super excited and not looking back!

[ahduth]

So for me, its definitely not about the money. Its about wanting to be happy doing a job that is continually challenging and fulfilling, and for that I'm willing to give up a career that by all accounts is very successful, burn through our savings, cash in my 401k, and take some loans to keep supporting my family and paying the mortgage while I chase a dream. (I should add that I'm very lucky to have a very supportive S/O who, in all likelihood, believes in me even more than I do.)

"It is never too late to be what you might have been."
— George Eliot

"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly."
- Robert F. Kennedy

well said.
this says it beautifully for me as well. is it logical? nope. are people (in laws) telling me i'm insane and "too smart for my own good"? yep. but it still feels right for me despite the occasional waking up in a cold sweat wondering what it will be like to not have a paycheck. i trust that this is the next step and i can't wait to see what comes of it!

What i say to others and to myself is this> When you are old and on your deathbed- will you wonder what if i gave law schol a shot? Or will you be happy with how your current life plays out? IF its the latter- then give it another year and decide. IF you are the former ( like I am) then go to law school. TO be honest it took me an extra year to realize this- and now that ie committed to it- im super excited and not looking back!

I just found out they'll pay me to antagonize people. Professionally. For money. Professionally.

Like I get to be a pain in the ass and they'll pay me. It's a real thing.

They even give you a neat title and all.

[CinnamonRose]

I just found out they'll pay me to antagonize people. Professionally. For money. Professionally.

Like I get to be a pain in the ass and they'll pay me. It's a real thing.

So this sounds like you are going into divorce law???

They are the nastiest/

[Lawst]

made for this thread!!!!!

http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/ ... eshow.html

<3 choose your own adventures!!!

Aw, man. Now I want a pudding pop. Why are those not a thing anymore?

[ahduth]

I just found out they'll pay me to antagonize people. Professionally. For money. Professionally.

Like I get to be a pain in the ass and they'll pay me. It's a real thing.

So this sounds like you are going into divorce law???

They are the nastiest/

No, I'd like to do complex commercial litigation for awhile, pay off my loans, then move to a DA's office.

I really want to sue Goldman Sachs, but I have to get this law degree first.

[rupret1]

You are in the same mindset I was in a few months ago.
I'm leaving a six figure job because I don't love it, am not challenged anymore, have reached a ceiling and have become bored. I always wanted to be a lawyer, so fuck it dude, lets go bowling.
Yep, its crazy, but I'm betting on two things:
1. I like law as much as I think I do
2. If I can start from the bottom and make it to the top once, I can do it again
There are many ancillary reasons, but those are primary. So for me, its definitely not about the money. Its about wanting to be happy doing a job that is continually challenging and fulfilling, and for that I'm willing to give up a career that by all accounts is very successful, burn through our savings, cash in my 401k, and take some loans to keep supporting my family and paying the mortgage while I chase a dream. (I should add that I'm very lucky to have a very supportive S/O who, in all likelihood, believes in me even more than I do.)

"It is never too late to be what you might have been."
— George Eliot

"Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly."
- Robert F. Kennedy

Not to be too nosy, but how many of you guys are doing this? I'm going back and forth on this one. I've got a good bit saved between my company 401K and Roth IRA, not enough to totally cover tuition, but it would significantly reduce my debt load. I'm thinking in the current economy, I'm not earning much more than what the interest on the student loans would be, so as far as earnings/cost of the money it's about the same whether I leave it in the retirement accounts or pull it out to avoid taking loans. However, it's very difficult to get over the psychological hurdle of cashing out that retirement. Anyone have thoughts on this?

[oldhippie]

i'm leaving mine alone, but i also have tuition covered by the GI bill so i only need loans for living expenses. i had considered cashing it in as an option but luckily won't have to....

[ElvisAaron]

Not to be too nosy, but how many of you guys are doing this? I'm going back and forth on this one. I've got a good bit saved between my company 401K and Roth IRA, not enough to totally cover tuition, but it would significantly reduce my debt load. I'm thinking in the current economy, I'm not earning much more than what the interest on the student loans would be, so as far as earnings/cost of the money it's about the same whether I leave it in the retirement accounts or pull it out to avoid taking loans. However, it's very difficult to get over the psychological hurdle of cashing out that retirement. Anyone have thoughts on this?

I struggled with it at first when I was looking at the 10% withdrawal penalty plus the tax in my 28% bracket coming off the top...but then my finance guy reminded me that its taxed like income, so if I wait until I have no income for a year to cash it out I'll pretty much only get the 10% penalty.
It's not as ballsy as it seems at first blush IMO. Its not like I'm 60 and retirement's around the corner..plenty of time to make it up later

[rupret1]

Not to be too nosy, but how many of you guys are doing this? I'm going back and forth on this one. I've got a good bit saved between my company 401K and Roth IRA, not enough to totally cover tuition, but it would significantly reduce my debt load. I'm thinking in the current economy, I'm not earning much more than what the interest on the student loans would be, so as far as earnings/cost of the money it's about the same whether I leave it in the retirement accounts or pull it out to avoid taking loans. However, it's very difficult to get over the psychological hurdle of cashing out that retirement. Anyone have thoughts on this?

I struggled with it at first when I was looking at the 10% withdrawal penalty plus the tax in my 28% bracket coming off the top...but then my finance guy reminded me that its taxed like income, so if I wait until I have no income for a year to cash it out I'll pretty much only get the 10% penalty.
It's not as ballsy as it seems at first blush IMO. Its not like I'm 60 and retirement's around the corner..plenty of time to make it up later

There's no 10% penalty if you use it for a qualified education expense (which means any accredited university). Just don't take more than qualified tuition costs and you should be OK. Your CPA can help with this.

I'm thinking *if* I do it, I'm going to wait until next year as this year we'll have high income so it would be taxed like you said at 25-28%. Next year we'll be broke plus there's the Lifetime Learning Credit which will offset income and we'll be down in the ~10% tax bracket. I've only got enough for about 1 year tuition costs so it should work out well if I did it years 2 or 3. Also, like you said, there's still lots of time to replace it with funds with plenty of time to grow for retirement.

[northwood]

dont touch it. if you are going to take it out- wait for after 1L- as you have some income ( and maybe savings) that you can use for this year. that way you will decrease your total loan amount.

personally i have enough saved up to cover tuition for 1L, but id rather not touch it until im a geezer with a wicked cool swing chair on my covered front porch and will need the money to pay for the neighbors kid to go to the beer store for my lazy old self.

[akhan]

I know that some law schools (Northwestern etc) do care about work experience, but once you're 'in' does it make any difference? I'm going to be applying at age 30 and was just wondering whether my work experience/graduate degree from the past few years leave me any better off than someone that went straight from UG to LS, or whether those years were 'wasted' (at least as far as my future legal career)?

[firemed]

I know that some law schools (Northwestern etc) do care about work experience, but once you're 'in' does it make any difference? I'm going to be applying at age 30 and was just wondering whether my work experience/graduate degree from the past few years leave me any better off than someone that went straight from UG to LS, or whether those years were 'wasted' (at least as far as my future legal career)?

No experience is wasted, in my opinion.

I figured at first that my time as a paramedic and firefighter was going to be useless when I interned. Instead I came away with three thoughts:

1) I figure if I find a labor law job opening my time working with my union will be useful.

2) My healthcare experience was actually really handy when I interned in a law office- most lawyers don't know jack about medicine- they cant tell you what 3xCABG means or what the prognosis is for pulminary HTN. Just being able to translate medical records into plain english and then give my opinion on them was invaluable to my mentor. So a healthcare law job (or even helping with SSD claims) is totally something my previous experience could help with.

3) I am sure there will be other life experiences I have had or things I have done professionally that no 23 year old has yet experienced that I will translate into something useful in my legal career.

[shepdawg]

Just wanted to let you all know that it can be done. I'm 32 with kids. I moved 700 miles and quit a 6 year career making 60k. I was accepted at a t3. I studied 70-80 hrs a week, and ended up top2%/LR/deans list and made the army's prestigious summer internship alt list. Shooting for army or SA in a super small market next summer.

[Skyhook]

I'm looking to get some life insurance given that our coverage will expire when my wife leaves her job in August.

Any suggestions?

[sarahh]

I'm looking to get some life insurance given that our coverage will expire when my wife leaves her job in August.

Any suggestions?

I wish I knew. I have been trying to get new life insurance, but no one seems interested in selling it me. Maybe go to a broker.

[Skyhook]

I'm looking to get some life insurance given that our coverage will expire when my wife leaves her job in August.

Any suggestions?

I wish I knew. I have been trying to get new life insurance, but no one seems interested in selling it me. Maybe go to a broker.

I got a letter from AAA, which reminded me this needs attention.
$100000 coverage direct term. Monthly rates $13 for me, $11 for my wife.

Given that I've never bought life insurance before I have no idea if this is a good rate.
There don't seem to be any decent websites about it either.

[sidhesadie]

Life insurance:
I got mine from Farmers, which was where I had my car insurance.

10 year term, $500K for $20 a month.
I'm healthy, I was 30 when I took it out (34 now), never smoked, no preexistings...

I just called them up and they sent an agent over.


So, on the subject of previous experience helping with jobs, Maybe you guys can help me.

Many of the firms around here that hire 1L's as SA's have real estate depts.
I have had a real estate broker's license since 2003, I let it lapse recently but could reactivate it (it would be mild effort but I could accomplish it in a month before LS starts) I could also get commercial RE and RE finance designations. (as opposed to just residential real estate, which I doubt would be very helpful)
Would it be any advantage, do you think, when applying for jobs at firms that do significant real estate business to have the broker's license? I realize attorneys do not NEED one, but since 1L's don't know much, it would signify that I am better informed and more experienced with real estate than the average 1L? I don't want to waste time but if it would offer even a slim 'hm' out of the hiring dept, I'll do it.

[DocHawkeye]

I'm looking to get some life insurance given that our coverage will expire when my wife leaves her job in August.

Any suggestions?

I wish I knew. I have been trying to get new life insurance, but no one seems interested in selling it me. Maybe go to a broker.

I got a letter from AAA, which reminded me this needs attention.
$100000 coverage direct term. Monthly rates $13 for me, $11 for my wife.

Given that I've never bought life insurance before I have no idea if this is a good rate.
There don't seem to be any decent websites about it either.

I would avoid term life insurance if possible. Instead, look for a whole life policy. Term life covers you for a specified term (kind of like auto or homeowners insurance). For example, if you buy a year-long policy, you get coverage for a year as long as the premiums are paid on time. After a year, the insurer can re-assess the risk and decide if they want to carry you for another policy term. Either way, you're out your money if you didn'f file a claim.

Whole life insurance is more like an investment. If you continue to pay your premiums, the policy gains cash value that you can use as equity while you're still alive - you borrow against it (to make a downpayment on a house, for example) and in some cases, the dividedn paid by the policy will eventually cover the cost of the premium, making it self sustaining (i.e.: you have insurance without paying anything out of pocket).

Hope this helps!