Official 2010 US News Law School Rankings Forum

[midwesterner]

I'm sorry US News, but these ranking just seem to validate everyones suspicion that they are not a valid measure of a school's worth and are mostly arbitrary.

There is no way George Washington and Boston College are not top 25 schools.
Indiana U a top 25? Alabama a top 30? These are solid state schools to be sure, but there is no reason they should be ranked where they are based on national recognition and placement.

Ken… or someone smart enough and willing to do it should put together a law school ranking system which reflects national recognition and placement. This is what students want to know when they look at rankings – not (outside of a few) the scholarly productivity of a faculty and the number of volumes in the library. National recognition and placement please. Because looking at this system a student might pick Indiana U over Boston College or George Washington and then be sorely disappointed come time to search for that job in New York or DC.

Aside from this poster is everyone else really that shallow and naive to think that USNews has any F-ng clue what they're talking about?
Do people not realize that one school deciding to spend X amount of money on some arbitrary part of the school can cause that school to drop or increase one or two spots which can in turn cause a completely random school to drop or increase 10 spots. These rankings are RIDICULOUS!!!
Not one school on this list changed in rankings because the professors beame more accessible, or the number of advanced coursed grew, or the tuition became more affordable, or the number of employers that actively recruit grew, or it's students got more clinical training or any of a number of reason that would make a law school great.
Stop feeding in to this bullshit!
Oh my school is now number 17 instead of number 22--So the F What!!! It's the same school it was when you applied and it'll be the same school when you graduate. Is it not clear that if a school can drop 10 spots or increase 20 spots this year the same thing can happen next year. So if you're school is number 20 this year and drops to 30 next year are you going to transfer out? Highly unlikely!
I find in incredibly frustrating and almost unbelievable that a bunch of future lawyers are willing to let a non-legal magazine tell you what the best law school is without ranking any of the actual important data about that school.
This has to be the most futile bit of information I've ever read. I've heard that people can be ranking-whores but Jesus H. Christ seeing it for myself now...I feel sorry for those of you that think US news is helping you to somehow make one of the biggest decisions in your life.

I'm sorry you have the impression that I think US news has any idea what they are doing... because I completely agree with you. But what frustrates me is that people do care about the rankings and most students assume they do reflect something about the quality of a law school.

Law school is an expensive, and an increasingly risky proposition. I think pre-law students deserve some kind of ranking that helps in this decision. The main thing most of us care about is how well our school is known and how well it places. Unfortunatley US news provides almost no help here.

[ruraljuror]

So much for the "rising star" that is GMU. -7 spots in 2 years is a pretty poor showing.

Meh... I never bought into the GMU "rising star" BS. Its the 3rd best state school in Virginia, how far can it rise? Even though they talk big, I don't see how they could overtake W+M. W+M is much much better known, etc.

3rd best? 4th best, at best. UVA, W&M, W&L then......GMU

[dapoetic1]

I'm sorry US News, but these ranking just seem to validate everyones suspicion that they are not a valid measure of a school's worth and are mostly arbitrary.

There is no way George Washington and Boston College are not top 25 schools.
Indiana U a top 25? Alabama a top 30? These are solid state schools to be sure, but there is no reason they should be ranked where they are based on national recognition and placement.

Ken… or someone smart enough and willing to do it should put together a law school ranking system which reflects national recognition and placement. This is what students want to know when they look at rankings – not (outside of a few) the scholarly productivity of a faculty and the number of volumes in the library. National recognition and placement please. Because looking at this system a student might pick Indiana U over Boston College or George Washington and then be sorely disappointed come time to search for that job in New York or DC.

Aside from this poster is everyone else really that shallow and naive to think that USNews has any F-ng clue what they're talking about?
Do people not realize that one school deciding to spend X amount of money on some arbitrary part of the school can cause that school to drop or increase one or two spots which can in turn cause a completely random school to drop or increase 10 spots. These rankings are RIDICULOUS!!!
Not one school on this list changed in rankings because the professors beame more accessible, or the number of advanced coursed grew, or the tuition became more affordable, or the number of employers that actively recruit grew, or it's students got more clinical training or any of a number of reason that would make a law school great.
Stop feeding in to this bullshit!
Oh my school is now number 17 instead of number 22--So the F What!!! It's the same school it was when you applied and it'll be the same school when you graduate. Is it not clear that if a school can drop 10 spots or increase 20 spots this year the same thing can happen next year. So if you're school is number 20 this year and drops to 30 next year are you going to transfer out? Highly unlikely!
I find in incredibly frustrating and almost unbelievable that a bunch of future lawyers are willing to let a non-legal magazine tell you what the best law school is without ranking any of the actual important data about that school.
This has to be the most futile bit of information I've ever read. I've heard that people can be ranking-whores but Jesus H. Christ seeing it for myself now...I feel sorry for those of you that think US news is helping you to somehow make one of the biggest decisions in your life.

I'm sorry you have the impression that I think US news has any idea what they are doing... because I completely agree with you. But what frustrates me is that people do care about the rankings and most students assume they do reflect something about the quality of a law school.

Law school is an expensive, and an increasingly risky proposition. I think pre-law students deserve some kind of ranking that helps in this decision. The main thing most of us care about is how well our school is known and how well it places. Unfortunatley US news provides almost no help here.

No I wasn't under the impression that you agreed with USN. In case I came off wrong (in my frustrated rant) I was saying that it seemed like you were the only person who thought USN was full of crap. Students definitley deserve better rankings. Something at least mildly law related would be a start.

[Blindmelon]

So much for the "rising star" that is GMU. -7 spots in 2 years is a pretty poor showing.

Meh... I never bought into the GMU "rising star" BS. Its the 3rd best state school in Virginia, how far can it rise? Even though they talk big, I don't see how they could overtake W+M. W+M is much much better known, etc.

3rd best? 4th best, at best. UVA, W&M, W&L then......GMU

W+L isn't a state school.... or am I going insane?

[lawaddict06]

I see the anti-GULC trolling wasn't warranted......though I am surprised they didn't take at least a slight drop from the inclusion of part time stats. I wonder if they saw this coming and managed PT stats last year to prevent any drop?

Are we absolutely sure PT was included in the FT rankings? Does it explicitly say that somewhere?

Pretty sure that the anti-GULC trolling will continue ever year, no matter how many years they stay at #14.

I predict Gtown will go up next year. It's been 14 for far too long.

[20160810]

As someone who will be going to UC-Davis (barring some WL love, of course) and returning to Sacramento to work, there is a double-dose of good news in the 2010 rankings: Not only is UCD's rise to 35 (over UCH!) great news, but McGeorge is now officially a TTT; good news for those of us competing with the lion's share of their grads for Sacramento's jobs.

[PhantaManta]

Why is UMaine listed at 100 as well as T3?

[MrOrange]

Why is UMaine listed at 100 as well as T3?

Haha...

[huckabees]

Here's the link to the gallery: http://img6.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=rank1j.gif

Thanks again, OperaSoprano!

<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

[google]

Why is UMaine listed at 100 as well as T3?

It's still young and curious.

[ruleser]

UC Davis had quite a climb - anyone think that is now a solidly T1 school? I asked around LA and it still didn't get all that much respect. Loyola LA really took a plunge, too - from top TT to virtually TTT - with Pepperdine going the other way...

GWU is a big surprise, too - will it float back to be like American and GMU?

[AJaKe]

.

[newcritic]

Gonzaga is both T2 and T3, as well.

[kimber1028]

Gonzaga is both T2 and T3, as well.

Speaking of the NW law schools... Willamette dropped to T4.

[zettsscores40]

I was expecting Wayne State to hop back in the T100. Guess the state economy is really hurting it.

[sbalive]

UC Davis had quite a climb - anyone think that is now a solidly T1 school? I asked around LA and it still didn't get all that much respect. Loyola LA really took a plunge, too - from top TT to virtually TTT - with Pepperdine going the other way...

GWU is a big surprise, too - will it float back to be like American and GMU?

UC Davis has been a solidly T1 school for quite some time - it was more that Hastings fell back from being T25 to being in the "solid T1" category, and then US News has mandated that they swap back and forth.

In terms of Pepperdine and Loyola LA - the rankings down there are very unstable. Because US News has a 100 point scale normalized at the top, which then drops all the way down to 75 at GULC at the bottom of the T14, the scores below that are all bunched up. That leads to lots of ties, and because of how US News resolves a tie (if 3 schools are at #55, then the next school is #58) you get exaggerated bumps. Consider that everyone's all excited about a -3 drop for Fordham - but it's really a -1 drop, since they were in a 3-way tie for #27 last year.

[ruraljuror]

Meh... I never bought into the GMU "rising star" BS. Its the 3rd best state school in Virginia, how far can it rise? Even though they talk big, I don't see how they could overtake W+M. W+M is much much better known, etc.

3rd best? 4th best, at best. UVA, W&M, W&L then......GMU

W+L isn't a state school.... or am I going insane?

W&L is private.

Oops, reading FAIL, sorry.

[gatorfan787]

What is the # at which the distinction between T1 and T2 is made? Is it 50?

[ruleser]

UC Davis had quite a climb - anyone think that is now a solidly T1 school? I asked around LA and it still didn't get all that much respect. Loyola LA really took a plunge, too - from top TT to virtually TTT - with Pepperdine going the other way...

GWU is a big surprise, too - will it float back to be like American and GMU?

UC Davis has been a solidly T1 school for quite some time - it was more that Hastings fell back from being T25 to being in the "solid T1" category, and then US News has mandated that they swap back and forth.

In terms of Pepperdine and Loyola LA - the rankings down there are very unstable. Because US News has a 100 point scale normalized at the top, which then drops all the way down to 75 at GULC at the bottom of the T14, the scores below that are all bunched up. That leads to lots of ties, and because of how US News resolves a tie (if 3 schools are at #55, then the next school is #58) you get exaggerated bumps. Consider that everyone's all excited about a -3 drop for Fordham - but it's really a -1 drop, since they were in a 3-way tie for #27 last year.

Sounds good - in any case, Loyola has to be very upset - headed toward the bottom of these rankings, and their PT program below UC San Diego... and some gloating at UC Davis for sure...\

Case Western can breathe a sigh of relief (for those familiar with their saga this past year) ALTHOUGH they got beat out by even Cleveland State in the PT category (oops) and landed darn near the bottom

ADDIT EDIT: Anyone else notice HY don't place anywhere on the specialty rankings (except Yale mid-way for one category) - how can you be #1/2 and not have outstanding individual programs?

[kimber1028]

What is the # at which the distinction between T1 and T2 is made? Is it 50?

Yes; 1-50 are T1, 51-100 are T2. US News used to label them as such until a few years back, when they combined both tiers as T1.

[SpartanNY]

What is the # at which the distinction between T1 and T2 is made? Is it 50?

That seems to be the consensus.

[Bankhead]

So I think this all begs the larger question: where the F did that horribly written intro blurb from the leaked rankings come from, and where did it go?

[sbalive]

What is the # at which the distinction between T1 and T2 is made? Is it 50?

Yes; 1-50 are T1, 51-100 are T2. US News used to label them as such until a few years back, when they combined both tiers as T1.

I do find it amusing that even though they combined T1 & T2, they still call next tier "#3". Ah, US News

[FlightoftheEarls]

ADDIT EDIT: Anyone else notice HY don't place anywhere on the specialty rankings (except Yale mid-way for one category) - how can you be #1/2 and not have outstanding individual programs?

On the other end, NYU cleaned house on making these lists. Quite impressive.

[Anastasia Dee Dualla]

.