MANY QUESTIONS! URM/REPEAT CLASSES/ETC Forum

[LandMermaid]

You do know that not all lawyers are criminal DUI defense attorneys? Never said that.Not once You keep referring to clients and defending them and all this shit as if I gave you the slightest inkling that is what I want to do. When, in fact, I couldn't think of a type of law I'd rather less practice than DUI defense law. You don't have to represent DUI clients to represent clients in general. You seem to think that defending yourself is equivalent to "making an excuse."

You're just a nasty bitch who likes to argue with everyone who is trying to help you. You misrepresent people's advice as attacks on you and you are clearly sensitive that you are a 27 year old loser who lives at home with 7 Fs on your transcript. Mature now are we!? You have a very misguided perception of what you think law school and being a lawyer is, and it doesn't involved a persecution complex, arguing with everyone who is trying to help you, and making excuses. Didn't argue with everyone, said thank you various times and "I agree with your point" and "you're right" guess you missed all that in search of your dire need to insult someone.

You had the answers to all you questions before you posted on here. The answers were: I will get a boost, I can have the dean change my grades, UM is a great school, driving drunk is a moral grey area, and statistics don't apply to me. You're the exception!

Never said UM is a great school (for the MILLIONTH time), I was actually asking people more about how they financed it because it's $50k. Never said stats don't apply either - just that they've been proven to be unreliable and that's why I don't decide my future on them

Why do you keep replying to someone who you think is such a low life bitch? Seems like a pretty bad way to waste your time.

So are you skipping work for this or

She never said she was skipping WORK! Can you read? What did you get on the LSAT? Have you ever detonated bombs!?

But, yeah, you actually make a good point. Certainly could be doing better things with my time.[/quote]

[Barack O'Drama]

From one non-traditional female applicant to another, I'm going to make one more attempt at this.

Grades: Your only option is to keep your GPA up for the rest of your time in undergrad and try to get those Fs changed into something else. They won't go away entirely. The LSAC UGPA recalculation was not kind to me, and I wrote an addendum to explain. Do some research on writing addendums, what you should and shouldn't say, how to take responsibility, etc. That's the best you can do.

Character and Fitness: You will need to disclose your arrest. Do this in very simple terms, state the facts, and take responsibility. Do not make excuses for your behavior, and above all, do not blame the cops. That will not get you into law school.

If you are in trauma therapy, you are obviously traumatized, and you are doing the right thing for your mental health. Yelling at people on message boards (especially after you asked for advice) is not conducive to healing, and you aren't going to change anyone's mind.

No one is yelling. If you are taking that from me capitalizing words for emphasis or showing frustration that people seem to keep putting words in my mouth (which I have proven for at least 5 posts) then you're incorrect. I'm not shouting or insulting anyone, funny how I'm the one being called a "dick" a "bitch" a "loser who lives at home" and me giving controlled, direct responses to the logical weaknesses in their statements makes me somehow the emotional one.

Any substantive comments on my actual advice?

Nope you'll never get any of those. As you can see my first 3 replies were just helpful, kind advice. Much like your Tuxedo. But now that I've quoted this she will have to respond to prove me wrong and argue more.

[TuxedoCats]

From one non-traditional female applicant to another, I'm going to make one more attempt at this.

Grades: Your only option is to keep your GPA up for the rest of your time in undergrad and try to get those Fs changed into something else. They won't go away entirely. The LSAC UGPA recalculation was not kind to me, and I wrote an addendum to explain. Do some research on writing addendums, what you should and shouldn't say, how to take responsibility, etc. That's the best you can do.

Character and Fitness: You will need to disclose your arrest. Do this in very simple terms, state the facts, and take responsibility. Do not make excuses for your behavior, and above all, do not blame the cops. That will not get you into law school.

If you are in trauma therapy, you are obviously traumatized, and you are doing the right thing for your mental health. Yelling at people on message boards (especially after you asked for advice) is not conducive to healing, and you aren't going to change anyone's mind.

No one is yelling. If you are taking that from me capitalizing words for emphasis or showing frustration that people seem to keep putting words in my mouth (which I have proven for at least 5 posts) then you're incorrect. I'm not shouting or insulting anyone, funny how I'm the one being called a "dick" a "bitch" a "loser who lives at home" and me giving controlled, direct responses to the logical weaknesses in their statements makes me somehow the emotional one.

Any substantive comments on my actual advice?

If in 2 years I have actually led to any change or a lawsuit comes about towards the police officer, I believe I'm going to talk about it in a little more detail on the arrest addendum. I would have to explain why I believe he was in the wrong in how he mistreated me and how it led to a lawsuit and how it greatly affected my mental health.

It's kind of awkward to be curt with an arrest explanation. Yes I can take responsibility and say I shouldn't drink and drive and that my actions have definitely changed since then (they have, but unfortunately to a paranoid degree. I get startled when I see cop cars, even to the point it makes me uneasy to drive.) I visited MADD and spoke with the victims and hugged them, had long conversations with them.

I actually felt like despite everything they were the ones who showed the most compassion, funny enough.

But yeah the addendum is something I've never had to do and it's pretty scary to think about how one law school application has so much weight. I hope that the application don't specify even sealed arrests. Gah.

I know, it is scary to think about putting something like this out there. I have to emphasize that you can't blame the cop. I am not saying that you were treated fairly or that it doesn't matter, but that's not going to help demonstrate contrition or maturity.

The application will ask about sealed and expunged criminal...things. It will also likely ask if you are a party to civil litigation, which you will be if a lawsuit proceeds. You absolutely have to disclose everything, and if you don't, the state bar will find out that you lied or omitted and you will not be admitted to practice. It will be a waste of time, money, and energy. So state the facts in your addendum in a concise manner, describe what you did to remedy the situation (including the MADD visits, that sounds like it made an impact on you), and what you've learned/how you've changed. The more time between the arrest and your application, the better.

If you need advice about specific wording or how to present any of this, I strongly encourage you to contact a Lawyer Assistance Program in the state where you want to go to school and the state(s) where you want to practice. They specialize in helping people with potential character and fitness issues.

[cavalier1138]

If in 2 years I have actually led to any change or a lawsuit comes about towards the police officer, I believe I'm going to talk about it in a little more detail on the arrest addendum. I would have to explain why I believe he was in the wrong in how he mistreated me and how it led to a lawsuit and how it greatly affected my mental health.

Please follow your own advice here and see where it gets you. Law schools love to read C&F addenda that try to blame the cops for a by-the-book arrest for a fairly serious offense.

wasn't by the book. for the billionth time. you seem to be devoted to be condescending to someone you don't even know

You were pulled over. You were given a breathalyzer test. You were over the legal limit. You were arrested and charged. You were released from jail after a holding period. You were given the chance to defend yourself in court. Please stop me when I get to the part that wasn't a routine DUI.

[prospectiveT14]

If in 2 years I have actually led to any change or a lawsuit comes about towards the police officer, I believe I'm going to talk about it in a little more detail on the arrest addendum. I would have to explain why I believe he was in the wrong in how he mistreated me and how it led to a lawsuit and how it greatly affected my mental health.

Please follow your own advice here and see where it gets you. Law schools love to read C&F addenda that try to blame the cops for a by-the-book arrest for a fairly serious offense.

I'm not going to keep repeating myself about everything I've mentioned the cop said/did. He didn't read my rights, used mocking behavior, held me up at a gas station for 30 minutes, didn't take me to the station for DUI (that's standard DUI) why don't you reread everything I mentioned instead of just trying to paint this or tone down something because you feel indignant enough to do so

wasn't by the book. for the billionth time. you seem to be devoted to be condescending to someone you don't even know

You were pulled over. You were given a breathalyzer test. You were over the legal limit. You were arrested and charged. You were released from jail after a holding period. You were given the chance to defend yourself in court. Please stop me when I get to the part that wasn't a routine DUI.

[grades??]

checking in because this is hilarious. OP good luck, enjoy law school. You are the exact person that will do great things in law school. Just keep telling yourself the world isn't fair and it wasn't my fault and I promise you that you will get straight As (unlike undergrad of course).

[mathis1490]

Each reply by prospectiveTTT reads like a Trump teleprompter.

[prospectiveT14]

Thanks, Tuxedo. That's really helpful advice. How no idea about the lawyer assistance thing, who knew there were lawyers for potential lawyers, so to speak.

Being in jail really opens your eyes to how people are treated and yelled at, made me understand the prosecution experience firsthand, so hopefully that will show when I help clients in the future. Even had to deal with very rude, cheap lawyers who wanted me to just take the plea the first day. Don't want to be that person who ever pressures someone else to make a life decision in 24 hours. Even had a public defender who was overworked and it showed she had compassion fatigue when trying to handle my case.

It was so much learning firsthand, but if I could swap places with my former self before the incident I still would.

[mathis1490]

Thanks, Tuxedo. That's really helpful advice. How no idea about the lawyer assistance thing, who knew there were lawyers for potential lawyers, so to speak.

Being in jail really opens your eyes to how people are treated and yelled at, made me understand the prosecution experience firsthand, so hopefully that will show when I help clients in the future. Even had to deal with very rude, cheap lawyers who wanted me to just take the plea the first day. Don't want to be that person who ever pressures someone else to make a life decision in 24 hours. Even had a public defender who was overworked and it showed she had compassion fatigue when trying to handle my case.

It was so much learning firsthand, but if I could swap places with my former self before the incident I still would.

Compassion fatigue seems to follow you around, doesn't it?

[A. Nony Mouse]

I brought up reoffending for the reason cavalier suggested - because you described what happens to this group of people that you belong to. It seems weird to make that kind of argument about your own experience because it does tend to suggest you're saying one of the problems is that you will reoffend. You're right about recidivism generally, of course, but it's a weird thing to bring up about yourself, and it's also not really an argument against how DUIs are handled, it's a much broader issue than that. It's not something that makes DUI laws unfair, it's a problem inherent to any criminal justice system. It's not that you're wrong, it just not really about DUIs.

I still don't understand what the 42% is supposed to mean.

If the cop didn't read you your rights, why couldn't your attorney get your case thrown out?

More to the point, maybe this thread gives you some sense of how your arguments about the DUI would come across to adcomms. I know you're not writing your addendum here and have already said this isn't what you'd put in your addendum, but just something to be especially careful doesn't leak into what you write. (Tuxedo makes excellent points about needing to disclose civil suits, too.)

Also I think an important point is that it doesn't actually have to ruin your life. It's not going to keep you out of law school if you handle it correctly. So maybe that can help you deal with it in the future.

[prospectiveT14]

Related note - they say that the PS is precious real estate and not waste it explaining your negative to positive life story if it's going to be explained on the addendum? Wouldn't it be redundant to do it on both?

Can I make my addendum personal-statement ish?

Like, the addendum is an explanation but can you land it on a positive note? Not really sure the formatting for those

[prospectiveT14]

I brought up reoffending for the reason cavalier suggested - because you described what happens to this group of people that you belong to. It seems weird to make that kind of argument about your own experience because it does tend to suggest you're saying one of the problems is that you will reoffend. You're right about recidivism generally, of course, but it's a weird thing to bring up about yourself, and it's also not really an argument against how DUIs are handled, it's a much broader issue than that. It's not something that makes DUI laws unfair, it's a problem inherent to any criminal justice system. It's not that you're wrong, it just not really about DUIs.

I still don't understand what the 42% is supposed to mean.

If the cop didn't read you your rights, why couldn't your attorney get your case thrown out?

More to the point, maybe this thread gives you some sense of how your arguments about the DUI would come across to adcomms. I know you're not writing your addendum here and have already said this isn't what you'd put in your addendum, but just something to be especially careful doesn't leak into what you write. (Tuxedo makes excellent points about needing to disclose civil suits, too.)

Also I think an important point is that it doesn't actually have to ruin your life. It's not going to keep you out of law school if you handle it correctly. So maybe that can help you deal with it in the future.

I did discuss everything with I could with attorney and PD I switched to later on, but both said only the blow will be counted. And in order to testify that he didn't read me my rights it would have to be in trial, you can't get it dismissed beforehand on that merit. I can't risk trial with a blow no matter how understanding a jury could be or how much I can explain my case. It would need to be a unanimous jury if not at least a hung jury to try again. Would be too nerve wracking, and all for what? To get a with adj regardless? Not worth it

[TuxedoCats]

Great, glad I could help.

Now about your attitude. You failed a breathalyzer, you went to jail for a little while, and some people were rude to you. If you were sexually assaulted as you seem to be implying, if the cop did something unlawful, there is recourse and you should pursue it. However, I think you need some perspective. In the past 48 hours, two men of color have been ostensibly murdered by the police. Approximately 22 veterans have committed suicide in the past day. You are not Freddie Gray. You are not even Piper Chapman. Their tragedy does not diminish your injustice, but I think you need to take a good, hard look in the mirror, because you are lucky enough to be alive to do so.

[prospectiveT14]

42% of 2nd time DUI offenders have a blood alcohol level of .15 which is nearly twice the legal limit. Meaning when they break the law again they're really trying to this time. Suggesting that DUI laws don't really work in fixing the problem

[A. Nony Mouse]

Addendums should be short and to the point - they're not intended to be a second PS, they're just to provide additional information. They shouldn't duplicate the PS either, and I would suggest that this incident isn't the best subject for a PS, just because there are a lot of land mines involved. The dilemma is if this experience is what is driving you to law school - I can see wanting to talk about that in a PS, but again, it would have to be handled very delicately.

I think you can try to end positively in an addendum but again, very concise and to the point. The positive would be basically that you've learned from your mistakes and maybe that it exposed you to an area of law you're interesting in pursuing. But again, really just factual basics, not elaborated on like in a PS or DS.

[A. Nony Mouse]

42% of 2nd time DUI offenders have a blood alcohol level of .15 which is nearly twice the legal limit. Meaning when they break the law again they're really trying to this time. Suggesting that DUI laws don't really work in fixing the problem

1) you don't know what their BAC was the first time, so .15 could be less than the first time - you don't know that they "weren't really trying."
2) that number is less than 1/2, so...
3) fixing the problem isn't the only purpose of DUI laws.

[Mockingbird42]

42% of 2nd time DUI offenders have a blood alcohol level of .15 which is nearly twice the legal limit. Meaning when they break the law again they're really trying to this time. Suggesting that DUI laws don't really work in fixing the problem

Ok so that statistic doesn't make your point. It could be that 2nd DUI offenders are account for only 2% of people who got 1 DUI. It could be that 80% of the 2nd time DUI offenders were above .15 on their 1st DUI. In both cases, it would that would be an improvement.

Basically, the statistic you provided doesn't really support your point. In fact, its expected that people with 2+ DUI's would have a higher blood alcohol limit, since that sample includes a higher number of serious alcoholics. A better statistic would be to show the recidivism rate.

[grades??]

My vote is that op is trolling. I suggest we ignore her and move on elsewhere. She doesn't deserve our time because she clearly cannot think rationally.

[tuxedocat]

Great, glad I could help.

Now about your attitude. You failed a breathalyzer, you went to jail for a little while, and some people were rude to you. If you were sexually assaulted as you seem to be implying, if the cop did something unlawful, there is recourse and you should pursue it. However, I think you need some perspective. In the past 48 hours, two men of color have been ostensibly murdered by the police. Approximately 22 veterans have committed suicide in the past day. You are not Freddie Gray. You are not even Piper Chapman. Their tragedy does not diminish your injustice, but I think you need to take a good, hard look in the mirror, because you are lucky enough to be alive to do so.

>.>

[TuxedoCats]

Great, glad I could help.

Now about your attitude. You failed a breathalyzer, you went to jail for a little while, and some people were rude to you. If you were sexually assaulted as you seem to be implying, if the cop did something unlawful, there is recourse and you should pursue it. However, I think you need some perspective. In the past 48 hours, two men of color have been ostensibly murdered by the police. Approximately 22 veterans have committed suicide in the past day. You are not Freddie Gray. You are not even Piper Chapman. Their tragedy does not diminish your injustice, but I think you need to take a good, hard look in the mirror, because you are lucky enough to be alive to do so.

>.>

yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Mikey]

Great, glad I could help.

Now about your attitude. You failed a breathalyzer, you went to jail for a little while, and some people were rude to you. If you were sexually assaulted as you seem to be implying, if the cop did something unlawful, there is recourse and you should pursue it. However, I think you need some perspective. In the past 48 hours, two men of color have been ostensibly murdered by the police. Approximately 22 veterans have committed suicide in the past day. You are not Freddie Gray. You are not even Piper Chapman. Their tragedy does not diminish your injustice, but I think you need to take a good, hard look in the mirror, because you are lucky enough to be alive to do so.

>.>

yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

mind fucked

[cavalier1138]

Great, glad I could help.

Now about your attitude. You failed a breathalyzer, you went to jail for a little while, and some people were rude to you. If you were sexually assaulted as you seem to be implying, if the cop did something unlawful, there is recourse and you should pursue it. However, I think you need some perspective. In the past 48 hours, two men of color have been ostensibly murdered by the police. Approximately 22 veterans have committed suicide in the past day. You are not Freddie Gray. You are not even Piper Chapman. Their tragedy does not diminish your injustice, but I think you need to take a good, hard look in the mirror, because you are lucky enough to be alive to do so.

>.>

yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Whaaaaaaat

[tuxedocat]

Great, glad I could help.

Now about your attitude. You failed a breathalyzer, you went to jail for a little while, and some people were rude to you. If you were sexually assaulted as you seem to be implying, if the cop did something unlawful, there is recourse and you should pursue it. However, I think you need some perspective. In the past 48 hours, two men of color have been ostensibly murdered by the police. Approximately 22 veterans have committed suicide in the past day. You are not Freddie Gray. You are not even Piper Chapman. Their tragedy does not diminish your injustice, but I think you need to take a good, hard look in the mirror, because you are lucky enough to be alive to do so.

>.>

yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Whaaaaaaat

Don't appreciate my good name being dragged through the dirt with this "helpfulness" crap. Take your thoughtful posting to a new username, perhaps something like Grey or Hund

[Nachoo2019]

drinking and driving is not a big deal.

Wow. That's a pretty extreme position to hold.

Yeah, wtf. Since when is endangering everyone's lives around you not a big deal?


This thread is gold lol

[Mikey]

This thread is gold lol