C/O 2015 Medians and Class Sizes Forum

[Robespierre]

Dean Perez, you've got a typo in the class size percentage; it should be -1.69%, not +1.69%.

How did you manage to maintain almost exactly the same medians in an atmosphere of declining applications, without shrinking the class?

Thanks for posting.

[SPerez]

Dean Perez, you've got a typo in the class size percentage; it should be -1.69%, not +1.69%.

Thanks for catching that. Can I just say that I did it on purpose to serve as an example to everyone about the dangers of cut/paste and the importance of proofreading your personal statements?

How did you manage to maintain almost exactly the same medians in an atmosphere of declining applications, without shrinking the class?

A lot of hard work, that's how. But seriously folks...We were one of only a few schools that saw applications increase, somewhere around 18%. That brought a big increase in the number of applicants at the top of the pool so we actually had more good students to choose from. We admitted a lot more people than last year, but they were virtually all applicants with strong files who would have probably been admitted any year. Although it made our yield take a hit, without those additional strong applicants we probably wouldn't have been able to do what we did.

As to why we saw that increase in applications, I can only speculate. I'd like to think, of course, it's because what we offer here at Texas Tech is what students are looking for right now--a good education that won't result in $150k in loan debt. Another factor was probably that I started mid-year in 2010 so this year was my first full recruiting/admissions year. The transition in the 2010-11 cycle could have caused a lower volume than we would have had otherwise, possibly accentuating the increase this year. At least part of it is also that we really do have an awesome team of staff, faculty, and students here. I'm sure other places do, too, but a LOT of students comment to us that they decided on Texas Tech after an interaction with someone here made them feel welcomed and at home.

[Nova]

UMN: 167/3.8 (SAME) 205 1Ls (-40)

[312ldn]

Harvard anyone?

[geary86]

WUSTL (#23): 166 (-2), 3.68 (+.02)

25/75 percentiles not released yet.

http://law.wustl.edu/Admissions/pages.aspx?id=72

[stillwater]

WUSTL (#23): 166 (-2), 3.68 (+.02)

25/75 percentiles not released yet.

http://law.wustl.edu/Admissions/pages.aspx?id=72

Interessttingg. Even with a decline in applicants, I expected WUSTL's reputation as a safe haven for splitters and their generous merit scholarships to at least hold the LSAT median at 167.

[minnbills]

WUSTL (#23): 166 (-2), 3.68 (+.02)

25/75 percentiles not released yet.

http://law.wustl.edu/Admissions/pages.aspx?id=72

Looks like the mighty LSAT-wall has fallen

[yankees42789]

Harvard anyone?

Haven't heard anything about medians, but we were told class size is 559 which I believe is the exact same number as the c/o 2014.

[KevinP]

Added W&M: William & Mary (#35): 164 (-1), 3.74 (+.01), 196 (-21, -9.68%)

WUSTL (#23): 166 (-2), 3.68 (+.02)

25/75 percentiles not released yet.

http://law.wustl.edu/Admissions/pages.aspx?id=72

Looks like the mighty LSAT-wall has fallen

I suspect the failure to enroll enough "median protectors" may have have cost WUSTL its LSAT median. That's the problem with schools that maximize medians using splitters. That is, the medians are protected by a relatively few median protector matriculates.

[Blessedassurance]

Harvard anyone?

Haven't heard anything about medians, but we were told class size is 559 which I believe is the exact same number as the c/o 2014.

Confirming 559.

[Tom Joad]

WUSTL (#23): 166 (-2), 3.68 (+.02)

25/75 percentiles not released yet.

http://law.wustl.edu/Admissions/pages.aspx?id=72

ASU's first victim.

[geary86]

WUSTL (#23): 166 (-2), 3.68 (+.02)

25/75 percentiles not released yet.

http://law.wustl.edu/Admissions/pages.aspx?id=72

ASU's first victim.

LOL

[Dr. Filth]

WUSTL (#23): 166 (-2), 3.68 (+.02)

25/75 percentiles not released yet.

http://law.wustl.edu/Admissions/pages.aspx?id=72

ASU's first victim.

What would you say the applicants are leaving in?

[Tom Joad]

WUSTL (#23): 166 (-2), 3.68 (+.02)

25/75 percentiles not released yet.

http://law.wustl.edu/Admissions/pages.aspx?id=72

ASU's first victim.

What would you say the applicants are leaving in?

Groups, or flocks, or bunches, or packs, or bands, or herds,






















or DROVES

[iMisto]

^ lmao

[outlookingin]

Can anybody quickly break down how we are supposed to interpret this info? It seems like schools are taking hits or at least struggling to maintain LSAT medians while achieving higher GPA medians.


Does this mean that high LSAT scores are worth more to these schools, perhaps because of scarcity and the opportunity to get an advantage over rivals who cannot hold their LSAT medians?

Or does this mean that high LSAT scores are worth less/staying the same in value to these schools, perhaps because they know that every other school is taking a hit too so their USNWR rankings are safe?



Somebody with a 3.75, for instance, might be sliding below some of these medians even further than before, but his 175 LSAT is still well above most school's 75th. Is his position stronger or weaker in this cycle? For the record, I don't know anybody who matches this description.

[2014]

170+s are going to be great commodities this cycle, don't get bogged down in the 75ths math except to gauge a schools interest in splitters. You should count on doing as well or better than you would have last cycle.

[thelawyler]

At worst, it'll be the same. At best, it'll be much better.

That is all.

[outlookingin]

ahhhh I did not realize that was what 75ths was all about. Thanks to both of you guys.

[Lavitz]

At worst, it'll be the same. At best, it'll be much better.

That is all.

I agree with this for the most part, but with one (obvious) exception: if a school's GPA median rises enough that a candidate's GPA which was previously above the median now falls below it. For example, Duke's GPA median was exactly 3.75. If that median rose as little as .01, I would have to imagine oulookingin the individual in outlookingin's example would see his position weaken at least a little relative to last cycle -- even if high LSATs are less common this cycle. Being above both medians last cycle should still be > being above one median and below another this cycle.

So I don't think you shouldn't be concerned about schools where you were already below the median, only about schools where the new median may eclipse your numbers.

[minnbills]

I don't think things will change all that much on an individual basis.

[iMisto]

Why does >75th matter if MEDIANS are the important numbers? How does a 175 affect xSchool's median? Espeically if they're a splitter? 175/3.4?? I mean, unless you can get enough 175s to fill out HALF of the seats, I don't understand why you'd give them $$$. Am I missing something?

[AllDangle]

.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Why does >75th matter if MEDIANS are the important numbers? How does a 175 affect xSchool's median? Espeically if they're a splitter? 175/3.4?? I mean, unless you can get enough 175s to fill out HALF of the seats, I don't understand why you'd give them $$$. Am I missing something?

They don't matter for usnews ranking, but they do matter for leiters ranking and for pride. I know for me, I laugh at schools like UMN that has like 157 25th, 167 median and 75th. Anyone educated on the law school game can immediately tell that UMN is unabashedly gaming the magazine rankings. I have fears my school will begin to do the same thing actually. It's embarrassing, and completely contrary to everything that the admissions office states.

[Ruxin1]

Would the drop in applicants from last year, and also this year, help someone who is above a schools 75th GPA percentile, but say 2 points below the 25th LSAT percentile?

It really depends on the school, what school do you want to know? Bear in mind that high gpa's are dime-a-dozen, below median lsat hurts, especially that low.