Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011 Forum

[cigrainger]

That's really good to know Cig thanks. I thought I saw you say something about that on the Misc thread somewhere but then I lost it.

I need to get emailing with regards to this.

That's a shame about NU. It makes such a difference doesn't it, the tone and alacrity with which they respond. Which is a shame, because it's probably just one poorly paid person having a bad day...

It is a shame, but it does make such a difference. Three years is a long time, and law school is a big decision. What if I'm a student there and have a serious question, and they just don't bother reading my emails because my question is somewhat similar to a FAQ?

[cigrainger]

I'm UNDER REVIEW at Harvard.

[cigrainger]

Good luck to all you guys taking the LSAT this weekend. I will be in Saigon, so I won't be able to offer my loving support at the time, but go kick its ass.

[Eugenie Danglars]

Thaaanks! I'll bring back a piece of its ass for a souvenir

[kazu]

Thaaanks! I'll bring back a piece of its ass for a souvenir

[cigrainger]

Thaaanks! I'll bring back a piece of its ass for a souvenir

I LOLed.

[xqhp82]

RAWRRRRRR so nervous about sunday!! traveling down to hong kong tomorrow, my dad is treating me a victory/farewell dinner at Morton's (apparently the best steakhouse in HK)!! I'm looking forward to that way more than the test. But also ready to get over this LSAT madness so i can get on with some serious business (have been missing one week of lecture already)...

i hope i don't get an ambivalent score that would get me into the stress of deciding to retake or not in december. im content with a 165 or above but have been consistently scoring 163-164 with occasional 167s. really, really annoying.

[bacchikoi]

If you are international, neither a U.S. citizen or permanent resident, will checking the financial aid box hurt your chances of getting in? I mean, if it's going to come down to personal loans anyway...

[cigrainger]

If you are international, neither a U.S. citizen or permanent resident, will checking the financial aid box hurt your chances of getting in? I mean, if it's going to come down to personal loans anyway...

I'm not sure but I doubt it. Ask?

[piccolittle]

An unnamed source has provided me with this info from LSAC: 'Starting in August 2010, LSAC will no longer report an admission index or cumulative GPA for applicants who received their undergraduate degree from an institution located outside the US, its territories, or Canada, and also completed some US/Canadian undergraduate-level work prior to the awarding of the international degree.'

So it appears that they have come to their senses, and that they flat out lied to me when I asked this summer.

Oh, bad bad bad. I was hoping my 4.0 summer credits would boost my sad little 2:2 in the adcomms eyes... Do you think they would give me a cumulative GPA if I asked really nicely???

[JCElks1]

Hi Everyone,

I'm a bit late on joining in on this threat, but better late than never. I'm a US citizen, but I did my undergrad and a postgrad degree (in law, incidentally) in the UK. I got a 2:1 for my undergrad from St Andrews and I was always told that it was equivalent to between a 3.3 and a 4.0 (my marks falling towards the 4.0 end of the scale). I was really upset upon receiving my CAS report from LSAC, which stated that my mark was 'above average', but that a 2.1 is equivalent to a 3.0 to a 3.3 GPA.

I spoke to a couple of people at LSAC who had no idea what they were talking about and I faxed a request to have it re-evaluated by AARCO (who is the external company who process foreign transcripts for LSAC) who also say that it was accurate. So, I contacted the admissions departments of a few schools I'm looking at (Georgetown, NYU, etc) and they all reassured me that they will look at the transcripts as a whole (including, hopefully, the official St Andrews credit transfer guidelines that will state a 2.1 is equivalent to between a 3.3 and a 4.0). They also reassured me that they are familiar with the UK system of grading and the reputations of various UK schools. So, I'm hoping that with a high LSAT score (which I hopefully achieved today!) that I will have some successful applications at T14 schools.

Has anyone else faced this same problem? Btw, it's so reassuring to finally be able to talk to other foreign applicants! Good luck to everyone applying!

[cigrainger]

Hi Everyone,

I'm a bit late on joining in on this threat, but better late than never. I'm a US citizen, but I did my undergrad and a postgrad degree (in law, incidentally) in the UK. I got a 2:1 for my undergrad from St Andrews and I was always told that it was equivalent to between a 3.3 and a 4.0 (my marks falling towards the 4.0 end of the scale). I was really upset upon receiving my CAS report from LSAC, which stated that my mark was 'above average', but that a 2.1 is equivalent to a 3.0 to a 3.3 GPA.

I spoke to a couple of people at LSAC who had no idea what they were talking about and I faxed a request to have it re-evaluated by AARCO (who is the external company who process foreign transcripts for LSAC) who also say that it was accurate. So, I contacted the admissions departments of a few schools I'm looking at (Georgetown, NYU, etc) and they all reassured me that they will look at the transcripts as a whole (including, hopefully, the official St Andrews credit transfer guidelines that will state a 2.1 is equivalent to between a 3.3 and a 4.0). They also reassured me that they are familiar with the UK system of grading and the reputations of various UK schools. So, I'm hoping that with a high LSAT score (which I hopefully achieved today!) that I will have some successful applications at T14 schools.

Has anyone else faced this same problem? Btw, it's so reassuring to finally be able to talk to other foreign applicants! Good luck to everyone applying!

LSAC and AACRAO do not give you a numerical GPA. The scale on the side is a general reference point which is, admittedly, low, but which will have a negligible effect on the way schools see your grades. It has nothing to do with your grades in particular -- its not any sort of evaluation, just their general scale. You can provide the St Andrews credit transfer guidelines if you like, but top schools are already familiar with UK grades.

Your 'above average' is all that matters. They only give 'below average', 'average', 'above average', and 'superior'. Maybe you misunderstood this and that's where the confusion is coming from. Of course AACRAO is not going to re-evaluate that. Your 2:1 is not superior, it's above average. And even a high 2:1 should not be considered near a 4.0. A high 2:1 is more like a 3.7. It's definitely better than a B+ average in the States, but let's not kid ourselves.

[JCElks1]

Hi Everyone,

I'm a bit late on joining in on this threat, but better late than never. I'm a US citizen, but I did my undergrad and a postgrad degree (in law, incidentally) in the UK. I got a 2:1 for my undergrad from St Andrews and I was always told that it was equivalent to between a 3.3 and a 4.0 (my marks falling towards the 4.0 end of the scale). I was really upset upon receiving my CAS report from LSAC, which stated that my mark was 'above average', but that a 2.1 is equivalent to a 3.0 to a 3.3 GPA.

I spoke to a couple of people at LSAC who had no idea what they were talking about and I faxed a request to have it re-evaluated by AARCO (who is the external company who process foreign transcripts for LSAC) who also say that it was accurate. So, I contacted the admissions departments of a few schools I'm looking at (Georgetown, NYU, etc) and they all reassured me that they will look at the transcripts as a whole (including, hopefully, the official St Andrews credit transfer guidelines that will state a 2.1 is equivalent to between a 3.3 and a 4.0). They also reassured me that they are familiar with the UK system of grading and the reputations of various UK schools. So, I'm hoping that with a high LSAT score (which I hopefully achieved today!) that I will have some successful applications at T14 schools.

Has anyone else faced this same problem? Btw, it's so reassuring to finally be able to talk to other foreign applicants! Good luck to everyone applying!

LSAC and AACRAO do not give you a numerical GPA. The scale on the side is a general reference point which is, admittedly, low, but which will have a negligible effect on the way schools see your grades. It has nothing to do with your grades in particular -- its not any sort of evaluation, just their general scale. You can provide the St Andrews credit transfer guidelines if you like, but top schools are already familiar with UK grades.

Your 'above average' is all that matters. They only give 'below average', 'average', 'above average', and 'superior'. Maybe you misunderstood this and that's where the confusion is coming from. Of course AACRAO is not going to re-evaluate that. Your 2:1 is not superior, it's above average. And even a high 2:1 should not be considered near a 4.0. A high 2:1 is more like a 3.7. It's definitely better than a B+ average in the States, but let's not kid ourselves.

I never expected them to re-evaluate the 'above average', and I made that very clear to them. But I was giving conflicting information from LSAC as to whether the chart that was provided was meant to be directly from my uni (it's referred to as the 'indigenous grading scale' after all) or if that was AARCO's own personal opinion. I can see how a high 2.1 (a 16 for example, when a 16.5 is a 1st at St Andrews) could be equivalent to a 4.0, considering LSDAS GPA is on a 4.3 scale. In any case, that's what St Andrews's opinion is! It was also very odd that even though I did both an undergrad and a postgrad degree in the UK, the scale was only included for my undergrad. No one was ever able to explain why that was...I'm not too worried, but I just find it odd.

In any case, I realise that as an international applicant, my LSAT score will be more important. I am just worried that even with a high LSAT score, that if my 'Above Average' degree was truly deemed to be equivalent to a 3.0 by admissions department, the schools that I would consider attending might not be within reach...But, it seems that that shouldn't be the case provided that I get the LSAT scores. Thanks for the input!

[thesybarite]

Wah - just logging in to commiserate really - the gpa thing is a pain I know.

On the plus side schools will get to see your transcript I think, so it's not all doom and gloom. Also, as someone mentioned earlier in the thread - your gpa is certainly not going to negatively effect their rankings, which may be in all our favours.

It is SO good to find other "foreign" applicants. It can be a bit of a mission doing it all from afar.

Good luck

[Skyhook]

Anyone take the LSAT last Saturday?
How did it go?
I was still getting over a virus that has been the doing the rounds where I live.
But this was my third time taking it and I had to apply asap so the dice have been rolled!

-----------

I'm going to have to take exception to the 2.1 is above average.
Considering what it takes to get a degree in the UK vs US do you think they are comparable?
Correct me if I am wrong, but the required number of major-related courses in the US is far fewer than the UK.
From that I would suggest that the complexity of the material covered is not as tough either.

I'm not ragging on US uni's, I disagree with the so-called equivalency rating systems. "Above average" is very misleading.

[FlanAl]

JCE

where are you getting that GPA number from? is it from taking the relative letter grade that they gave you and making that into a GPA? If thats the case then I don't think it matters too much. I mean if that's what adcomm's did no one from the UK would look like they had a 4.0 (unless there are actually kids going through the UK system with all A's). But they definitely know that a first is just as impressive if not more impressive than a 4.0

I don't think they would claim that a guy who got a first really only had like a 3.5. Say they got half 16's and half 17's giving them a 16.5 and a first. If 16's are B's and 17's are A's by their conversion chart then the person had a 3.5! A 3.5 for being in about the top 5% of your class? I doubt this is how they'd look at it.

Note: My math could be completely wrong and i could definitely be totally wrong about all of the above but I just thought I'd put it out there since my 2:1 isn't the highest a 2:1 could be and I've been thinking about this a bit lately.

[Cromartie]

Getting ready to hit "Submit" on my apps once my score comes out. Of course, which apps I actually hit "Submit" on will depend on the actual score. This is going to be a long couple of weeks.

[cigrainger]

Getting ready to hit "Submit" on my apps once my score comes out. Of course, which apps I actually hit "Submit" on will depend on the actual score. This is going to be a long couple of weeks.

Like I said in the other thread, I'm sure you did great. I'm predicting a very good cycle for the TLS foreign applicants.

[Nulli Secundus]

Even though my fail at RC timing might indicate disaster, it might very well not, depending on my performance in other sections. So, stressful wait here, as well.

Question: Is it worth applying this cycle if I decide to retake in December?

[cigrainger]

Even though my fail at RC timing might indicate disaster, it might very well not, depending on my performance in other sections. So, stressful wait here, as well.

Question: Is it worth applying this cycle if I decide to retake in December?

I think the answer to that depends on what you would be doing with your time off. I'm sure you did great though!

[xqhp82]

also waiting for october score....a rather stressful wait since I didn't do well at all. i'll probably have to retake in december in London unles miracle happens...fingers crossed.

its so difficult to keep up with final year of uni and browsing TLS!

[stiss87]

Hi everyone!
Finally found an international thread! I'm currently an UG student here in Switzerland at the University of Zurich. Still have a year to go, but have already taken the LSAT in October. Just in case it went horribly wrong and have to take it again. I'm kind of scared of the results and at the same time I'd like it to be over whatever the score is.
I have a pretty decent UG grade average (5.35 of 6) which I guess would be considered 'summa cum laude'. I think that would be 'above average'. Do the University actually care about that? I heard from somebody that they just look at the LSAT score for international students.
Does anybody know a foreign student who got into HLS, CLS, YLS, NYU, GULC,...(T14)? Would be curious on what score they had on the LSAT.

[padthai]

Hello fellow internationals!

I go to college in the U.S., so all your talks of "superior" and GPAs out of 6 is intriguing and confusing.
Oh I definitely know other internationals who got into the earlier T14s with LSAT scores in the lower 70s.

Of course law schools look at GPAs for international students too! LSAT score AND GPA are the 2 most important factors. But if you go to a college abroad where the grading system is different, they'll probably just evaluate you differently (more flexibly?).

[stiss87]

Of course law schools look at GPAs for international students too! LSAT score AND GPA are the 2 most important factors. But if you go to a college abroad where the grading system is different, they'll probably just evaluate you differently (more flexibly?).

From what I was told on this site from fellow international students, LSAC doesn't translate the foreign score into a GPA but puts it into different categories: poor, average, above average, superior, and so on.
Having 'above average' on the application is less precise than having a GPA and therefore it may be less relevant to the schools than the LSAT score.
I really don't know, that's why I was asking.

[Cromartie]

Getting ready to hit "Submit" on my apps once my score comes out. Of course, which apps I actually hit "Submit" on will depend on the actual score. This is going to be a long couple of weeks.

Like I said in the other thread, I'm sure you did great. I'm predicting a very good cycle for the TLS foreign applicants.

Thanks! I messed up on 1 LG, but I'm very confident in my other sections. Looking forward to enjoying (and commiserating) this upcoming cycle with the rest of the internationals.