Latest employment data Forum

[cannibal ox]

There was one where you could select a firm from the drop down menu and it'd show you it's 2013 class size and how many associates came from each school.

[03152016]

is that for kirkland NY or chicago?

p sure it's for all offices

@starfox
the method i'm proposing (grade selective firms, not just v10) would be useful in light of the fact that one of the biggest problems with nlj250/bl+fc is their failure to distinguish between firms like wachtell and firms like dla
it is useful as another data point, not dispositive in itself, but as something that gives us just a little more context into a school's placement ability
of course there will be problems with the results, but that's true of any single metric. the idea is to keep building up info so students can make a holistic decision, we can't expect one single factor to stand on its own.
what reason is there not to look?

[Mack.Hambleton]

i think its a good idea

[starry eyed]

i'll contribute when i have some time.

what about including V20 in separate ranking?

@starfox- i agree with brut on this. His DLA piper/watchtell point was pretty valid.

[skers]

Seems like a pretty useful exercise honestly. Y'all should do the whole t14.

[FSK]

is that for kirkland NY or chicago?

p sure it's for all offices

@starfox
the method i'm proposing (grade selective firms, not just v10) would be useful in light of the fact that one of the biggest problems with nlj250/bl+fc is their failure to distinguish between firms like wachtell and firms like dla
it is useful as another data point, not dispositive in itself, but as something that gives us just a little more context into a school's placement ability
of course there will be problems with the results, but that's true of any single metric. the idea is to keep building up info so students can make a holistic decision, we can't expect one single factor to stand on its own.
what reason is there not to look?

Hard to say what counts as grade selective, you know? Hogan DC is, but Hogan NY isn't as much. But V10 is obv. a bad metric, excludes GDC, W&C, Quinn, Boise, among other preftigious haunts.

[skers]

Doing either v20 or just adding in a few of those places off the top should probably cover it.

[banjo]

Here's some "selective firm" placement data from 2006: http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2007/ ... ement.html. I think that guy came up with a good list of grade-selective firms, apparently just based on Vault.

[starry eyed]

Here's some "selective firm" placement data from 2006: http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2007/ ... ement.html. I think that guy came up with a good list of grade-selective firms, apparently just based on Vault.

yea this just saved a lot of time

[starry eyed]

There was one where you could select a firm from the drop down menu and it'd show you it's 2013 class size and how many associates came from each school.

but this doesn't take into account that there are more H grads than Y

[UVAIce]

I think it is a good list, but it is still very NYC centric. Most of my friends at UVA who did very well wanted to work for Covington, Hogan Lovells, Williams & Connolly, or some other DC based firm. But this is just an inherent problem with the Vault rankings.

[Cobretti]

Here's some "selective firm" placement data from 2006: http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2007/ ... ement.html. I think that guy came up with a good list of grade-selective firms, apparently just based on Vault.

Very interesting, would be really cool to see with new data.

Most surprising thing was how many Yalies went biglaw in 2006. They haven't had 50% of their class go into biglaw in years now. Has Yale become even more of a special snowflake mill in the last 9 years?

[starry eyed]

Here's some "selective firm" placement data from 2006: http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2007/ ... ement.html. I think that guy came up with a good list of grade-selective firms, apparently just based on Vault.

Very interesting, would be really cool to see with new data.

Most surprising thing was how many Yalies went biglaw in 2006. They haven't had 50% of their class go into biglaw in years now. Has Yale become even more of a special snowflake mill in the last 9 years?

i think it's bc the current grads didn't want to go to law school but wanted to wait out the bad economy, and the c/o 06, they actully went to law school to be lawyers

[Cobretti]

Here's some "selective firm" placement data from 2006: http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2007/ ... ement.html. I think that guy came up with a good list of grade-selective firms, apparently just based on Vault.

Very interesting, would be really cool to see with new data.

Most surprising thing was how many Yalies went biglaw in 2006. They haven't had 50% of their class go into biglaw in years now. Has Yale become even more of a special snowflake mill in the last 9 years?

i think it's bc the current grads didn't want to go to law school but wanted to wait out the bad economy, and the c/o 06, they actully went to law school to be lawyers

possibly, but this was posted in Aug 06 so its probably c/o 2005 data, and that means they applied to law school in 01/02, which was actually the tail end of a recession as well.

ETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_2000s_recession

[Tiago Splitter]

Here's some "selective firm" placement data from 2006: http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2007/ ... ement.html. I think that guy came up with a good list of grade-selective firms, apparently just based on Vault.

Very interesting, would be really cool to see with new data.

Most surprising thing was how many Yalies went biglaw in 2006. They haven't had 50% of their class go into biglaw in years now. Has Yale become even more of a special snowflake mill in the last 9 years?

That data is for summers not graduates.

[starry eyed]

I love it when Tiago backs me up.

[Cobretti]

I love it when Tiago backs me up.

02/03 would still be recession years, but he brings up a good point that they might not have accepted fulltime offers after the SA, and had similar 9 months out biglaw numbers as they currently do. and you could still be right too, obviously the last recession was significantly worse than anything in 02/03, was just pointing out it could be something else.

[Tiago Splitter]

Not sure what I said to back you up. Anyways, tons of Yale students will summer at a big firm and then clerk. Take a look at the 2005 placement data:

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/20080414 ... trends.pdf

Looks like more than 40% of Yale grads were clerking in their first year out.

[Cobretti]

Not sure what I said to back you up. Anyways, tons of Yale students will summer at a big firm and then clerk. Take a look at the 2005 placement data:

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/20080414 ... trends.pdf

Looks like more than 40% of Yale grads were clerking in their first year out.

ya this makes the most sense

[starry eyed]

Not sure what I said to back you up. Anyways, tons of Yale students will summer at a big firm and then clerk. Take a look at the 2005 placement data:

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/20080414 ... trends.pdf

Looks like more than 40% of Yale grads were clerking in their first year out.

i made an assertion implying that the bad economy helps explain why there appears to be more unicorn seekers currently

cobretti raised a possible objection

you possibly refuted it

[skers]

Idk how much to give credence to 10 year fluctuations in arbitrary rankings, but might make sense to use current v selectivity rankings. Probably mostly the same firms though.

[starry eyed]

i would nominate myself but i feel like brut would double check my results anyway, so i say he does it lol
to gather v20 data that is

[jbagelboy]

I think it is a good list, but it is still very NYC centric. Most of my friends at UVA who did very well wanted to work for Covington, Hogan Lovells, Williams & Connolly, or some other DC based firm. But this is just an inherent problem with the Vault rankings.

It's not that NYC centric; the majority of the firms listed are not NYC firms, some don't even have NY offices. i.e. Munger, Williams & Connolly, Irell, Ropes, Covington, Gibson Dunn, Wilmer, Jenner, Kirkland, and Mofo.

[Tiago Splitter]

I think it is a good list, but it is still very NYC centric. Most of my friends at UVA who did very well wanted to work for Covington, Hogan Lovells, Williams & Connolly, or some other DC based firm. But this is just an inherent problem with the Vault rankings.

It's not that NYC centric; the majority of the firms listed are not NYC firms, some don't even have NY offices. i.e. Munger, Williams & Connolly, Irell, Ropes, Covington, Gibson Dunn, Wilmer, Jenner, Kirkland, and Mofo.

OTOH places like GDC and K&E, and to a lesser extent Wilmer and Covington, hire a lot of people in NYC but aren't nearly as selective in that office.

[jbagelboy]

I think it is a good list, but it is still very NYC centric. Most of my friends at UVA who did very well wanted to work for Covington, Hogan Lovells, Williams & Connolly, or some other DC based firm. But this is just an inherent problem with the Vault rankings.

It's not that NYC centric; the majority of the firms listed are not NYC firms, some don't even have NY offices. i.e. Munger, Williams & Connolly, Irell, Ropes, Covington, Gibson Dunn, Wilmer, Jenner, Kirkland, and Mofo.

OTOH places like GDC and K&E, and to a lesser extent Wilmer and Covington, hire a lot of people in NYC but aren't nearly as selective in that office.

yea that's definitely true (although I don't think Wilmer Cutler ect. had an NY yet office in 2006). but still, I wouldn't call this NY centric since a lot of the hiring for those firms still happens outside of NY. and I think the New york offices became larger over the past decade than they used to be