2018 USNWR Rankings Forum

[Moneytrees]

http://abovethelaw.com/careers/2016-law ... -rankings/

Did they completely forget about USC?

ATL's rankings emphasize education cost which hurts USC.

[wiz]

Hikko - I was thinking about this and you're my go to guy on these sorts of things. What is the cutoff for what constitutes a prestigious undergrad?

National Universities
Tier 1: PSYCHM
Tier 2: Columbia, Chicago, Duke, Penn, Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, Brown, Rice
Tier 3: WUSTL, Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, NYU, Notre Dame, Emory, Berkeley, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, UVA, Michigan, Boston College, USC, UCLA

Just a rough outline. Order within tiers not super precise. Personal preference would be slightly different in some cases. Open to disagreement/suggestions.

1a: HYPS
1b: MC
2a: Columbia, Penn, Chicago
2b: Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, Duke
3: Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Rice, Berkeley, WUSTL, Emory, Georgetown, Notre Dame
4: Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, NYU, UVA, Michigan, USC, UCLA


Lmao liberal arts schools

Penn should be in 2b instead of 2a. If we're not going to move Vanderbilt to 2b, I think it should at least be first in 3.

I agree with you on bumping Penn to a lower tier Ivy (2b), but I disagree on Vanderbilt. I don't think Vandy is a more prestigious name than Northwestern unless you live in the south.

[wiz]

Hikko - I was thinking about this and you're my go to guy on these sorts of things. What is the cutoff for what constitutes a prestigious undergrad?

National Universities
Tier 1: PSYCHM
Tier 2: Columbia, Chicago, Duke, Penn, Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, Brown, Rice
Tier 3: WUSTL, Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, NYU, Notre Dame, Emory, Berkeley, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, UVA, Michigan, Boston College, USC, UCLA

Just a rough outline. Order within tiers not super precise. Personal preference would be slightly different in some cases. Open to disagreement/suggestions.

1a: HYPS
1b: MC
2a: Columbia, Penn, Chicago
2b: Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, Duke
3: Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Rice, Berkeley, WUSTL, Emory, Georgetown, Notre Dame
4: Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, NYU, UVA, Michigan, USC, UCLA


Lmao liberal arts schools

Rice? Melon? We are talking about prestigious schools, not your grocery list. And tufts of what? Hair?

I'd appreciate if you approached the making of such a list with the gravitas it deserves.

I was hungry this morning and started stress eating while grabbing my hair. You're lucky I didn't include Colgate, Oral Roberts, and other godspeed toothbrush spinoffs.

[Moneytrees]

Hikko - I was thinking about this and you're my go to guy on these sorts of things. What is the cutoff for what constitutes a prestigious undergrad?

National Universities
Tier 1: PSYCHM
Tier 2: Columbia, Chicago, Duke, Penn, Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, Brown, Rice
Tier 3: WUSTL, Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, NYU, Notre Dame, Emory, Berkeley, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, UVA, Michigan, Boston College, USC, UCLA

Just a rough outline. Order within tiers not super precise. Personal preference would be slightly different in some cases. Open to disagreement/suggestions.

1a: HYPS
1b: MC
2a: Columbia, Penn, Chicago
2b: Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, Duke
3: Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Rice, Berkeley, WUSTL, Emory, Georgetown, Notre Dame
4: Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, NYU, UVA, Michigan, USC, UCLA


Lmao liberal arts schools

Penn should be in 2b instead of 2a. If we're not going to move Vanderbilt to 2b, I think it should at least be first in 3.

I agree with you on bumping Penn to a lower tier Ivy (2b), but I disagree on Vanderbilt. I don't think Vandy is a more prestigious name than Northwestern unless you live in the south.

I'd be tempted to bump Duke up to 2a, move all the other 2b schools to tier 3 and call it a day. I don't think there's a huge difference between Brown and schools like John Hopkins and Northwestern.

[wiz]

Hikko - I was thinking about this and you're my go to guy on these sorts of things. What is the cutoff for what constitutes a prestigious undergrad?

National Universities
Tier 1: PSYCHM
Tier 2: Columbia, Chicago, Duke, Penn, Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, Brown, Rice
Tier 3: WUSTL, Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, NYU, Notre Dame, Emory, Berkeley, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, UVA, Michigan, Boston College, USC, UCLA

Just a rough outline. Order within tiers not super precise. Personal preference would be slightly different in some cases. Open to disagreement/suggestions.

1a: HYPS
1b: MC
2a: Columbia, Penn, Chicago
2b: Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, Duke
3: Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Rice, Berkeley, WUSTL, Emory, Georgetown, Notre Dame
4: Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, NYU, UVA, Michigan, USC, UCLA


Lmao liberal arts schools

Penn should be in 2b instead of 2a. If we're not going to move Vanderbilt to 2b, I think it should at least be first in 3.

I agree with you on bumping Penn to a lower tier Ivy (2b), but I disagree on Vanderbilt. I don't think Vandy is a more prestigious name than Northwestern unless you live in the south.

I'd be tempted to bump Duke up to 2a, move all the other 2b schools to tier 3 and call it a day. I don't think there's a huge difference between Brown and schools like John Hopkins and Northwestern.

There isn't, but I think Ivy + Stanford/MIT/Duke/Caltech is still a pretty common grouping for schools in terms of prestige. At that point you're just separating lower tier Ivies + Duke from the rest, but I don't think Duke is Columbia level.

[lawdawg69]

This thread has been a waste of time,we should be discussing much more productive topics, like ranking the various law school rankings. I.e which is better US News, Above the Law, NJL, Vault? Which ranking system is more prestigious?

[Hikikomorist]

Hikko - I was thinking about this and you're my go to guy on these sorts of things. What is the cutoff for what constitutes a prestigious undergrad?

National Universities
Tier 1: PSYCHM
Tier 2: Columbia, Chicago, Duke, Penn, Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, Brown, Rice
Tier 3: WUSTL, Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, NYU, Notre Dame, Emory, Berkeley, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, UVA, Michigan, Boston College, USC, UCLA

Just a rough outline. Order within tiers not super precise. Personal preference would be slightly different in some cases. Open to disagreement/suggestions.

1a: HYPS
1b: MC
2a: Columbia, Penn, Chicago
2b: Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, Duke
3: Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Rice, Berkeley, WUSTL, Emory, Georgetown, Notre Dame
4: Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, NYU, UVA, Michigan, USC, UCLA


Lmao liberal arts schools

Penn should be in 2b instead of 2a. If we're not going to move Vanderbilt to 2b, I think it should at least be first in 3.

I agree with you on bumping Penn to a lower tier Ivy (2b), but I disagree on Vanderbilt. I don't think Vandy is a more prestigious name than Northwestern unless you live in the south.

Yeah, I'd be okay with that compromise. Still think Vandy is slightly more prestigious than Northwestern, but I'm flexible on the gap, and I also might be slightly personally biased (not from attending).

Do you still think Cornell belongs in 2b instead of 3?

[goldenbear2020]

Do you still think Cornell belongs in 2b instead of 3?

Yes, while Cornell is clearly the least selective/prestigious UG among the lower Ivy/Duke tier it's still a cut above tier 3.

[Hikikomorist]

Do you still think Cornell belongs in 2b instead of 3?

Yes, while Cornell is clearly the least selective/prestigious UG among the lower Ivy/Duke tier it's still a cut above tier 3.

I think most people with the choice would choose Vanderbilt/Northwestern over Cornell.

[Moneytrees]

Do you still think Cornell belongs in 2b instead of 3?

Yes, while Cornell is clearly the least selective/prestigious UG among the lower Ivy/Duke tier it's still a cut above tier 3.

I think most people with the choice would choose Vanderbilt/Northwestern over Cornell.

I don't think Vandy has an edge over Cornell, at all.

[Wipfelder]

Hikko - I was thinking about this and you're my go to guy on these sorts of things. What is the cutoff for what constitutes a prestigious undergrad?

National Universities
Tier 1: PSYCHM
Tier 2: Columbia, Chicago, Duke, Penn, Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, Brown, Rice
Tier 3: WUSTL, Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, NYU, Notre Dame, Emory, Berkeley, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, UVA, Michigan, Boston College, USC, UCLA

Just a rough outline. Order within tiers not super precise. Personal preference would be slightly different in some cases. Open to disagreement/suggestions.

1a: HYPS
1b: MC
2a: Columbia, Penn, Chicago
2b: Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, Duke
3: Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Rice, Berkeley, WUSTL, Emory, Georgetown, Notre Dame
4: Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, NYU, UVA, Michigan, USC, UCLA


Lmao liberal arts schools

Penn should be in 2b instead of 2a. If we're not going to move Vanderbilt to 2b, I think it should at least be first in 3.

I agree with you on bumping Penn to a lower tier Ivy (2b), but I disagree on Vanderbilt. I don't think Vandy is a more prestigious name than Northwestern unless you live in the south.

Yeah, I'd be okay with that compromise. Still think Vandy is slightly more prestigious than Northwestern, but I'm flexible on the gap, and I also might be slightly personally biased (not from attending).

Do you still think Cornell belongs in 2b instead of 3?

Y'all forgot the poor man's Ivy League: The Military Academys.

[mjb447]

This thread has been a waste of time,we should be discussing much more productive topics, like ranking the various law school rankings. I.e which is better US News, Above the Law, NJL, Vault? Which ranking system is more prestigious?

Judging the Law Schools >>> everything else

[Pomeranian]

Not to hate on Georgetown so much, but why does it (appear) to have a lot of lay prestige? It's not really OMG good at anything (maybe IR/School of Foreign Service is the exception). It's not particularly notable in STEM or research. The only explanation I have is Hoya Basketball and being located in a ritzy neighborhood.

[proteinshake]

Not to hate on Georgetown so much, but why does it (appear) to have a lot of lay prestige? It's not really OMG good at anything (maybe IR/School of Foreign Service is the exception). It's not particularly notable in STEM or research. The only explanation I have is Hoya Basketball and being located in a ritzy neighborhood.

US News ranking and being in DC is all I can think of (but that's probably because of my ignorance)

[Moneytrees]

Not to hate on Georgetown so much, but why does it (appear) to have a lot of lay prestige? It's not really OMG good at anything. It's not particularly notable in STEM or research.

Many of the small private schools that are ranked in the top 20 are not recognized for their research (Brown, Wash U, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, etc.). Lay prestige has nothing to do with research prowess, for better or for worse.

[Ferrisjso]

Not to hate on Georgetown so much, but why does it (appear) to have a lot of lay prestige? It's not really OMG good at anything. It's not particularly notable in STEM or research.

Many of the small private schools that are ranked in the top 20 are not recognized for their research (Brown, Wash U, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, etc.). Lay prestige has nothing to do with research prowess, for better or for worse.

Best school in the nations capital. In most countries on earth, that's checkmate for being #1.

[Pomeranian]

Going back to the Duke vs Berkeley debate. I'm sure Duke students wouldn't burn down buildings in order to prevent a controversial speaker (i.e. Milo) from appearing. http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us/milo-y ... -berkeley/

So much for engaging respectfully with diverse viewpoints!

[BVest]

Not to hate on Georgetown so much, but why does it (appear) to have a lot of lay prestige? It's not really OMG good at anything. It's not particularly notable in STEM or research.

Many of the small private schools that are ranked in the top 20 are not recognized for their research (Brown, Wash U, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, etc.). Lay prestige has nothing to do with research prowess, for better or for worse.

Best school in the nations capital. In most countries on earth, that's checkmate for being #1.

Sure, but in most countries, the nation's capital is in the most cosmopolitan city and there's not nearly so significant a distributed governance structure.

[Hikikomorist]

Hikko - I was thinking about this and you're my go to guy on these sorts of things. What is the cutoff for what constitutes a prestigious undergrad?

National Universities
Tier 1: PSYCHM
Tier 2: Columbia, Chicago, Duke, Penn, Dartmouth, Vanderbilt, Brown, Rice
Tier 3: WUSTL, Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, NYU, Notre Dame, Emory, Berkeley, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, UVA, Michigan, Boston College, USC, UCLA

Just a rough outline. Order within tiers not super precise. Personal preference would be slightly different in some cases. Open to disagreement/suggestions.

1a: HYPS
1b: MC
2a: Columbia, Penn, Chicago
2b: Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, Duke
3: Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Rice, Berkeley, WUSTL, Emory, Georgetown, Notre Dame
4: Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, NYU, UVA, Michigan, USC, UCLA


Lmao liberal arts schools

Penn should be in 2b instead of 2a. If we're not going to move Vanderbilt to 2b, I think it should at least be first in 3.

I agree with you on bumping Penn to a lower tier Ivy (2b), but I disagree on Vanderbilt. I don't think Vandy is a more prestigious name than Northwestern unless you live in the south.

Yeah, I'd be okay with that compromise. Still think Vandy is slightly more prestigious than Northwestern, but I'm flexible on the gap, and I also might be slightly personally biased (not from attending).

Do you still think Cornell belongs in 2b instead of 3?

Y'all forgot the poor man's Ivy League: The Military Academys.

I didn't forget.

[Ferrisjso]

Not to hate on Georgetown so much, but why does it (appear) to have a lot of lay prestige? It's not really OMG good at anything. It's not particularly notable in STEM or research.

Many of the small private schools that are ranked in the top 20 are not recognized for their research (Brown, Wash U, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, etc.). Lay prestige has nothing to do with research prowess, for better or for worse.

Best school in the nations capital. In most countries on earth, that's checkmate for being #1.

Sure, but in most countries, the nation's capital is in the most cosmopolitan city and there's not nearly so significant a distributed governance structure.

True, we are clearly different. Still, Columbia isn't the best country in the university:) Are we the only country in the world that makes a point to put most of our best universities in obscure non central places(especially state schools)?

[Moneytrees]

Not to hate on Georgetown so much, but why does it (appear) to have a lot of lay prestige? It's not really OMG good at anything. It's not particularly notable in STEM or research.

Many of the small private schools that are ranked in the top 20 are not recognized for their research (Brown, Wash U, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, etc.). Lay prestige has nothing to do with research prowess, for better or for worse.

Best school in the nations capital. In most countries on earth, that's checkmate for being #1.

Sure, but in most countries, the nation's capital is in the most cosmopolitan city and there's not nearly so significant a distributed governance structure.

True, we are clearly different. Still, Columbia isn't the best country in the university:) Are we the only country in the world that makes a point to put most of our best universities in obscure non central places(especially state schools)?

I don't know if this is really true, almost every major city has a "top" school (Columbia in NYC, UCLA/USC in LA, H in Boston, Penn in Philly, John Hopkins in Baltimore, University of Chicago/NW in Chicago, Vandy in Nashville, etc).

[Ferrisjso]

Not to hate on Georgetown so much, but why does it (appear) to have a lot of lay prestige? It's not really OMG good at anything. It's not particularly notable in STEM or research.

Many of the small private schools that are ranked in the top 20 are not recognized for their research (Brown, Wash U, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, etc.). Lay prestige has nothing to do with research prowess, for better or for worse.

Best school in the nations capital. In most countries on earth, that's checkmate for being #1.

Sure, but in most countries, the nation's capital is in the most cosmopolitan city and there's not nearly so significant a distributed governance structure.

True, we are clearly different. Still, Columbia isn't the best country in the university:) Are we the only country in the world that makes a point to put most of our best universities in obscure non central places(especially state schools)?

I don't know if this is really true, almost every major city has a "top" school (Columbia in NYC, UCLA/USC in LA, H in Boston, Penn in Philly, John Hopkins in Baltimore, University of Chicago/NW in Chicago, Vandy in Nashville, etc).

I'd still say it's a small minority of important universities though(if you include public). Also the handful of best institutions(the following are schools that have legit arguments IMO for having the greatest lay prestige in the country) are all in somewhat minor cities, Palo Alto, Cambridge(guess it's debatable whether that counts as Boston), Pasadena, New Haven etc. Also while UCLA is in a major location the system's flagship is not. Then we've got the law schooless ivy's like Dartmouth, Brown and Princeton. We haven't really started the list of super obscure flagship locations, either.

[bearsfan23]

Do you still think Cornell belongs in 2b instead of 3?

Yes, while Cornell is clearly the least selective/prestigious UG among the lower Ivy/Duke tier it's still a cut above tier 3.

Like UC-Berkeley, Cornell is a literal public school. Therefore, neither belongs anywhere close to the same tier as a school like Duke.

Cornell must have some serious blackmail material on HYP to have not been kicked out of the Ivy League by now.

[Rigo]

Do you still think Cornell belongs in 2b instead of 3?

Yes, while Cornell is clearly the least selective/prestigious UG among the lower Ivy/Duke tier it's still a cut above tier 3.

Like UC-Berkeley, Cornell is a literal public school.

It's literally not. It has a few statutory colleges for Agriculture and stuff but the overwhelming majority of it is private.

[Moneytrees]

Do you still think Cornell belongs in 2b instead of 3?

Yes, while Cornell is clearly the least selective/prestigious UG among the lower Ivy/Duke tier it's still a cut above tier 3.

Like UC-Berkeley, Cornell is a literal public school.

It's literally not. It has a few statutory colleges for Agriculture and stuff but the overwhelming majority of it is private.

Yeah that was a super weird comment.