C/O 2016 median lsat/gpa/class size Forum

[bizzybone1313]

If I was a dean at a T-14, I would drop tuition by about $10K. This would help immensely with maintaining medians.

Doesn't being more generous with scholarship money achieve the same effect, without the possible stigma of being perceived as desperate, or as a "bargain basement" law school?

I don't think it does achieve the same effect. By dropping tuition by $10K across the board, everyone would benefit from the cut, which I think would make people give a certain school a second look. $30K is a shit load of money. With scholarship $$$, only the highest numbered peeps will continue to get the large additional discounts. What they are doing right now doesn't appear to be working. At some point, they may just stop giving a fuck and just continue to let medians drop. Everyone else's medians will drop anyways.

[longlivetheking]

is it possible for nyu to have a median of 169 for this coming cycle?

Anything is possible.

I know I'm just some chump but given the success my 169 had at Duke/NU/UVA and failure at Penn/NYU I'm going to say Penn/NYU did not drop to 169.

nyu was taking 169s left and right off the waitlist. they definitely maintained a 170 median. but this coming cycle is gonna see further drops, is it possible for a 169 median?

[longlivetheking]

is it possible for nyu to have a median of 169 for this coming cycle?

Well, it would make them the highest-ranked school so far to have a two-point median drop, and it would also put their median unusually closer to their 25th percentile than their 75th.

i meant, THIS COMING CYCLE. i'm assuming they maintained a 170.

[ScottRiqui]

If I was a dean at a T-14, I would drop tuition by about $10K. This would help immensely with maintaining medians.

Doesn't being more generous with scholarship money achieve the same effect, without the possible stigma of being perceived as desperate, or as a "bargain basement" law school?

I don't think it does achieve the same effect. By dropping tuition by $10K across the board, everyone would benefit from the cut, which I think would make people give a certain school a second look. $30K is a shit load of money. With scholarship $$$, only the highest numbered peeps will continue to get the large additional discounts. What they are doing right now doesn't appear to be working. At some point, they may just stop giving a fuck and just continue to let medians drop. Everyone else's medians will drop anyways.

Possibly, but given acceptances to multiple schools, how far down the rankings would you drop in order to save $30k?

Honestly, I think that all of the schools outside of HYS are faced with a problem that's pretty much intractable; many applicants are just looking to go to the highest-ranked school that will take them. As the number of applicants goes down, the very top schools can maintain their medians by just being slightly less picky with soft factors (since they've always been able to turn away even the highest-scoring applicants), but for the lower-ranked schools, there just aren't enough students out there with the numbers they need to support both their medians and their class sizes.

[20141023]

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[cotiger]

If I was a dean at a T-14, I would drop tuition by about $10K. This would help immensely with maintaining medians.

Doesn't being more generous with scholarship money achieve the same effect, without the possible stigma of being perceived as desperate, or as a "bargain basement" law school?

I don't think it does achieve the same effect. By dropping tuition by $10K across the board, everyone would benefit from the cut, which I think would make people give a certain school a second look. $30K is a shit load of money. With scholarship $$$, only the highest numbered peeps will continue to get the large additional discounts. What they are doing right now doesn't appear to be working. At some point, they may just stop giving a fuck and just continue to let medians drop. Everyone else's medians will drop anyways.

But how would giving below-median people tuition discounts at the expense of above-median people help maintain medians?

Put it this way, let's assume you have a class of 100 people and a nominal tuition of 50k. There are two options. One is to do what you're saying, cut tuition, and make everyone pay 40k. That brings in $4m for the school. The other way is to have the 50 below-median people pay 50k and the 50 above-median pay 30k. This still brings in $4m for the school, but makes it that much more attractive for the above-median people.

It doesn't matter if cutting tuition across the board would "make certain people give the school another look" unless those people were above the median.

[banjo]

Cornell posted their numbers:

2013 Entering Class (195 Matriculants)

25% GPA: 3.52
Median GPA: 3.66
75% GPA: 3.73

25% LSAT: 165
Median LSAT: 167
75% LSAT: 167

Not sure if I've seen that happen before...

All Cornell has to do is move their law school to Manhattan. They already have medical facilities on the east side, are building a tech campus on Roosevelt Island, and conduct their OCI in Manhattan. It would be relatively easy...

I think the quote "chaos is a ladder" would be apt here...

[Mojosodope]

the freefall continues

[bouleversement]

the very top schools can maintain their medians by just being slightly less picky with soft factors (since they've always been able to turn away even the highest-scoring applicants)

Does that mean they always will be able to?

[ScottRiqui]

the very top schools can maintain their medians by just being slightly less picky with soft factors (since they've always been able to turn away even the highest-scoring applicants)

Does that mean they always will be able to?

In the long term? It would depend on whether the number of LSAT takers and applicants continues to drop. Obviously, if they drop far enough at some point in the future, even HYS would have to lower LSAT/GPA admissions standards and/or class size.

But for this cycle that we're just now getting the numbers for, I'd bet a paycheck that they could have even *raised* their medians and maintained class sizes if they had wanted to send a "screw you" message to the lower-ranked schools just to show how unaffected they are by the downturn in applicants.

[Tiago Splitter]

the very top schools can maintain their medians by just being slightly less picky with soft factors (since they've always been able to turn away even the highest-scoring applicants)

Does that mean they always will be able to?

Yes, because they have such a high yield and aren't worried about maximizing medians, just keeping medians above the unwashed masses of schools below. Harvard doesn't need to keep a 173 median. At this point it's just rubbing it in.

[cotiger]

All Cornell has to do is move their law school to Manhattan. They already have medical facilities on the east side, are building a tech campus on Roosevelt Island, and conduct their OCI in Manhattan. It would be relatively easy...

I think the quote "chaos is a ladder" would be apt here...

It would be awesome if Cornell just took over all of Roosevelt Island. Or Governor's Island, though NYU kind of claimed that a few years ago.

[Lavitz]

All Cornell has to do is move their law school to Manhattan. They already have medical facilities on the east side, are building a tech campus on Roosevelt Island, and conduct their OCI in Manhattan. It would be relatively easy...

I think the quote "chaos is a ladder" would be apt here...

It would be awesome if Cornell just took over all of Roosevelt Island. Or Governor's Island, though NYU kind of claimed that a few years ago.

They're not going to go through all that trouble for a few notches on USNWR.

Besides, I like it out here.

[moonman157]

the very top schools can maintain their medians by just being slightly less picky with soft factors (since they've always been able to turn away even the highest-scoring applicants)

Does that mean they always will be able to?

Yes, because they have such a high yield and aren't worried about maximizing medians, just keeping medians above the unwashed masses of schools below. Harvard doesn't need to keep a 173 median. At this point it's just rubbing it in.

Exactly. Stanford's LSAT median is already below CCN, but don't expect any of them to pass it up in USNWR anytime soon. They could easily bring it up a few, but they don't care because they don't need to.

[FKASunny]

All Cornell has to do is move their law school to Manhattan. They already have medical facilities on the east side, are building a tech campus on Roosevelt Island, and conduct their OCI in Manhattan. It would be relatively easy...

I think the quote "chaos is a ladder" would be apt here...

It would be awesome if Cornell just took over all of Roosevelt Island. Or Governor's Island, though NYU kind of claimed that a few years ago.

They're not going to go through all that trouble for a few notches on USNWR.

Besides, I like it out here.

Stockholm Syndrome

[JurisDoctorSeuss]

Penn Law's Unofficial #s for the entering 2013 class
https://www.law.upenn.edu/admissions/jd ... rofile.php

Applicants = 5,307 -541
Enrolled = 251 +8
LSAT 75% = 171 0
LSAT 25% = 165 +1
GPA 75% = 3.94 0
GPA 25% = 3.55 0

[JurisDoctorSeuss]

Georgetown University Law Center reported their class size, median LSAT, and median GPA in a local paper, which Leiter posted: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ ... story.html

2013 Entering Class
Median GPA: 3.75 +.03
Median LSAT: 168 -1
Class Size: 544 -31 or 5.39%

2012 Entering Class
Median GPA: 3.72 25%/75% 3.43/3.82
Median LSAT: 169 25%/75% 165/170
Class Size: 575

[jk148706]

Just got Notre Dame's Class Profile from my school's Law School Fair. It's not pretty.

Median GPA: 3.60
Median LSAT: 163
LSAT Range: 160-165
class size: 163

Holy. Is this confirmed ??

[isuperserial]

Just got Notre Dame's Class Profile from my school's Law School Fair. It's not pretty.

Median GPA: 3.60
Median LSAT: 163
LSAT Range: 160-165
class size: 163

Holy. Is this confirmed ??

Seems to be. Makes me feel damn good knowing even if I didn't improve much on my Oct retake, I can still be accepted to some great schools, hopefully with a little scholly money. Just waiting on WashU... their loss will be my gain XD

[JurisDoctorSeuss]

University of Minnesota
Entering Class of 2013

Applied: 2,946; Enrolled: 221

LSAT Median: 164
25-75 Percentile: 156-167

GPA Median: 3.79
25-75 Percentile: 3.44-3.90

[JurisDoctorSeuss]

Vanderbilt Law
J.D. Class of 2016:

3,296 applications
174 students

75th percentile GPA:3.85
Median GPA: 3.74
25th percentile GPA: 3.45

75th percentile LSAT: 169 (96th percentile among test-takers)
Median LSAT: 167 (94th percentile among test-takers*)
25th percentile LSAT: 163 (87th percentile among test-takers)

[JurisDoctorSeuss]

Indiana-U Bloomington

2013 Entering JD Class

204 students
Median 162 LSAT*
Median 3.8 GPA

*Doesn't include JD/MBA or those entering through direct admit program

[JurisDoctorSeuss]

UNC Entering Class 2013

Median GPA: 3.5
GPA 25/75 percentiles: 3.28/3.69
Median LSAT: 161
LSAT 25/75 percentiles: 159/163
238 students enrolled from 1,517 applicants

[JurisDoctorSeuss]

University of Georgia
Incoming 2013

Total Enrollment
201
Median LSAT Score
163
Median GPA
3.69

[JurisDoctorSeuss]

Maryland Law

The 2013 Entering Class
206 enrolled (173 day, 33 evening)
160 median LSAT
3.53 median GPA