CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size) Forum

[TirantMartorell]

Stop being jelly over WUSTL.
It's a solid school that's doing the right thing, unlike most of the others.
It's reputation, employment prospects, and rankings will only be improving over time.

This is exactly what I mean. Had we been criticizing any other T20 school for its failure to secure jobs for its graduates in spite of its ranking (USC, Emory and UCLA have issues of their own, for example), we would not be confronted with TLSers ready to defend the reputation of their beloved WUSTL. I really don't get it. WUSTL has employment numbers similar to GW, ND, BU, BC, and Fordham and yet all of the schools I just mentioned will repeatedly be trashed on TLS in ways WUSTL is not.

Can't blame the school if employers won't hire its grads. It deserves praise for giving full rides to, frankly, mediocre applicants. And you would be crazy not to take it over six figure debt at the UVAs and Dukes of the world. It uniquely gets credit because it's the only school that will do this for splitters.

Can you imagine this being said on TLS for any other school?

[eriedoctrine]

Stop being jelly over WUSTL.
It's a solid school that's doing the right thing, unlike most of the others.
It's reputation, employment prospects, and rankings will only be improving over time.

This is exactly what I mean. Had we been criticizing any other T20 school for its failure to secure jobs for its graduates in spite of its ranking (USC, Emory and UCLA have issues of their own, for example), we would not be confronted with TLSers ready to defend the reputation of their beloved WUSTL. I really don't get it. WUSTL has employment numbers similar to GW, ND, BU, BC, and Fordham and yet all of the schools I just mentioned will repeatedly be trashed on TLS in ways WUSTL is not.

Can't blame the school if employers won't hire its grads. It deserves praise for giving full rides to, frankly, mediocre applicants. And you would be crazy not to take it over six figure debt at the UVAs and Dukes of the world. It uniquely gets credit because it's the only school that will do this for splitters.

Can you imagine this being said on TLS for any other school?

No, for precisely the reasons that followed.
You need a timeout and not be heard, child.

[TirantMartorell]

Stop being jelly over WUSTL.
It's a solid school that's doing the right thing, unlike most of the others.
It's reputation, employment prospects, and rankings will only be improving over time.

This is exactly what I mean. Had we been criticizing any other T20 school for its failure to secure jobs for its graduates in spite of its ranking (USC, Emory and UCLA have issues of their own, for example), we would not be confronted with TLSers ready to defend the reputation of their beloved WUSTL. I really don't get it. WUSTL has employment numbers similar to GW, ND, BU, BC, and Fordham and yet all of the schools I just mentioned will repeatedly be trashed on TLS in ways WUSTL is not.

OK, There's more WUSTL dirty laundry lying around the lounge than there is for any other accredited JD program, IDK what website you're on right now

I really don't think it's that difficult to understand why WUSTL gets so much attention on TLS, and you have to spend about thirty seconds looking at scholly #s on law school numbers to figure out why

They cut their class size by 60 and are using their endowment to make the decision to go to law school less irrational for a pretty good chunk of borderline T14 people

What do you want them to do? Were you expecting them to overcome a significant geographic disadvantage and a traditionally meh reputation within the profession by adding 1 point on their median LSAT score?

Perhaps, but what other school has the army of advocates WUSTL has on this website?

I give WUSTL props for its scholarship policy - But will 166s and 167s fair that poorly in terms of scholarships at ND/BU/BC? These schools have medians in the 162-164 range and have the same employment statistics.

I don't expect them to do anything, I think they've done many things right, but does that merit the TLS obsession?

[TirantMartorell]

Stop being jelly over WUSTL.
It's a solid school that's doing the right thing, unlike most of the others.
It's reputation, employment prospects, and rankings will only be improving over time.

This is exactly what I mean. Had we been criticizing any other T20 school for its failure to secure jobs for its graduates in spite of its ranking (USC, Emory and UCLA have issues of their own, for example), we would not be confronted with TLSers ready to defend the reputation of their beloved WUSTL. I really don't get it. WUSTL has employment numbers similar to GW, ND, BU, BC, and Fordham and yet all of the schools I just mentioned will repeatedly be trashed on TLS in ways WUSTL is not.

Can't blame the school if employers won't hire its grads. It deserves praise for giving full rides to, frankly, mediocre applicants. And you would be crazy not to take it over six figure debt at the UVAs and Dukes of the world. It uniquely gets credit because it's the only school that will do this for splitters.

Can you imagine this being said on TLS for any other school?

No, for precisely the reasons that followed.
You need a timeout and not be heard, child.

Very mature of you

[eriedoctrine]

Stop being jelly over WUSTL.
It's a solid school that's doing the right thing, unlike most of the others.
It's reputation, employment prospects, and rankings will only be improving over time.

This is exactly what I mean. Had we been criticizing any other T20 school for its failure to secure jobs for its graduates in spite of its ranking (USC, Emory and UCLA have issues of their own, for example), we would not be confronted with TLSers ready to defend the reputation of their beloved WUSTL. I really don't get it. WUSTL has employment numbers similar to GW, ND, BU, BC, and Fordham and yet all of the schools I just mentioned will repeatedly be trashed on TLS in ways WUSTL is not.

Can't blame the school if employers won't hire its grads. It deserves praise for giving full rides to, frankly, mediocre applicants. And you would be crazy not to take it over six figure debt at the UVAs and Dukes of the world. It uniquely gets credit because it's the only school that will do this for splitters.

Can you imagine this being said on TLS for any other school?

No, for precisely the reasons that followed.
You need a timeout and not be heard, child.

Very mature of you

Please refrain from speech.
If I gave you a penny for your thoughts, I'd get change, which I don't need because I'm rich.

[JCougar]

It's because WUSTL will give 150k to anyone who can fog a mirror and score 166 on the LSAT, GPA be damned. Cheap COL too. Those other places will leave you jobless with massive debt.

And that, of course, is exactly why it does get love. It's a cheap place to go to school. With the stats I had when applying for law school, I'd likely be in at Georgetown, Northwestern, UVA, and possibly even Cornell if I were applying today.

But if you fall just below the middle of the class at any of those schools, you're in the same position as me, but with about $100,000 more in school debt. Especially if you're not a URM/IP secure/Military Veteran/hot woman, like me.

Once you strike out at OCI, you're screwed pretty much anywhere you go. There are exceptions, but they are rare. Like I've said before on here, I've volunteered with a couple of T6 grads before that struck out at their own OCI--doing the most soul-crushing makework imaginable.

It's just hard to put into words how awful the legal hiring market is for new grads, especially given the debt you take on. Hiring for PhDs in humanities may be worse from a numbers:positions ratio, but most PhD grads don't pay a ton for tuition, if any at all, and a lot get living stipends.

Probably about 20,000 people per year get the LT, FT, JD-required jobs out there, but about 13-14K of those involve filing or defending awful, frivolous cases that will bore you to death, won't help you pay back your loans, involve insane bosses, and make you depressed.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Perhaps, but what other school has the army of advocates WUSTL has on this website?

I give WUSTL props for its scholarship policy - But will 166s and 167s fair that poorly in terms of scholarships at ND/BU/BC? These schools have medians in the 162-164 range and have the same employment statistics.

I don't expect them to do anything, I think they've done many things right, but does that merit the TLS obsession?

Link to anyone at/above WUSTL's LSAT median who got a better scholarship at one of those schools?

There's nothing intrinsicly great about WUSTL; it just winds up being the best choice for a decent chunk of applicants .

[JCougar]

FWIW, Georgetown tosses more un/underemployed people on the legal job market than WUSTL does total graduates, and those people have much, much more debt. Even though it's percentages are somewhat better, it's more toxic for other top-tier grads than anyone else out there due to its class size.

It's just the legal job market. You either get six figures or you get nothing.

[TirantMartorell]

Stop being jelly over WUSTL.
It's a solid school that's doing the right thing, unlike most of the others.
It's reputation, employment prospects, and rankings will only be improving over time.

This is exactly what I mean. Had we been criticizing any other T20 school for its failure to secure jobs for its graduates in spite of its ranking (USC, Emory and UCLA have issues of their own, for example), we would not be confronted with TLSers ready to defend the reputation of their beloved WUSTL. I really don't get it. WUSTL has employment numbers similar to GW, ND, BU, BC, and Fordham and yet all of the schools I just mentioned will repeatedly be trashed on TLS in ways WUSTL is not.

Can't blame the school if employers won't hire its grads. It deserves praise for giving full rides to, frankly, mediocre applicants. And you would be crazy not to take it over six figure debt at the UVAs and Dukes of the world. It uniquely gets credit because it's the only school that will do this for splitters.

Can you imagine this being said on TLS for any other school?

No, for precisely the reasons that followed.
You need a timeout and not be heard, child.

Very mature of you

Please refrain from speech.
If I gave you a penny for your thoughts, I'd get change, which I don't need because I'm rich.

Everyone else has managed to give solid reasons why they think WUSTL deserves the credit it gets on TLS. You've only managed to provide insults and reminds us you're rich twice. Congrats!

[TirantMartorell]

Perhaps, but what other school has the army of advocates WUSTL has on this website?

I give WUSTL props for its scholarship policy - But will 166s and 167s fair that poorly in terms of scholarships at ND/BU/BC? These schools have medians in the 162-164 range and have the same employment statistics.

I don't expect them to do anything, I think they've done many things right, but does that merit the TLS obsession?

Link to anyone at/above WUSTL's LSAT median who got a better scholarship at one of those schools?

There's nothing intrinsicly great about WUSTL; it just winds up being the best choice for a decent chunk of applicants .

3.78 / 168 - full ride at ND http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... n#p8693447

3.83 / 167 - full ride at USC http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... n#p8574593

I agree that WUSTL is the best choice for a good number of applicants. If you have a low GPA and an LSAT of 167/168, you'll strike out of the T14 and WUSTL will probably give you the most money among its peers give the low GPA.

[Mack.Hambleton]

Illinois Law should also be given a second look, as you're getting T25 quality employment with T50 stats.
This won't last forever and many Chi-town employers are already starting to cut back on recruitment from the school due to the scandal, and bring in more from WUSTL/ND.

[Citation needed]

[RareExports]

I give WUSTL props for its scholarship policy - But will 166s and 167s fair that poorly in terms of scholarships at ND/BU/BC? These schools have medians in the 162-164 range and have the same employment statistics.

I got more money at Duke and Michigan than at any of ND/BU/BC.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Perhaps, but what other school has the army of advocates WUSTL has on this website?

I give WUSTL props for its scholarship policy - But will 166s and 167s fair that poorly in terms of scholarships at ND/BU/BC? These schools have medians in the 162-164 range and have the same employment statistics.

I don't expect them to do anything, I think they've done many things right, but does that merit the TLS obsession?

Link to anyone at/above WUSTL's LSAT median who got a better scholarship at one of those schools?

There's nothing intrinsicly great about WUSTL; it just winds up being the best choice for a decent chunk of applicants .

3.78 / 168 - full ride at ND http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... n#p8693447

3.83 / 167 - full ride at USC http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... n#p8574593

I agree that WUSTL is the best choice for a good number of applicants. If you have a low GPA and an LSAT of 167/168, you'll strike out of the T14 and WUSTL will probably give you the most money among its peers give the low GPA.

I have no basis for comparison there, although I strongly suspect WUSTL would give a full ride or very close to each of these applicants. But yeah, picking ND over WUSTL if you have a full is fine, and you would be foolish not to do the same for USC.

Back to the original point--there's no special hard-on for WUSTL unconnected to the data. If they became Fordham-level stingy tomorrow, the number of reasons to like it would drop to zero.

[Lawdork]

Stop being jelly over WUSTL.
It's a solid school that's doing the right thing, unlike most of the others.
It's reputation, employment prospects, and rankings will only be improving over time.

This is exactly what I mean. Had we been criticizing any other T20 school for its failure to secure jobs for its graduates in spite of its ranking (USC, Emory and UCLA have issues of their own, for example), we would not be confronted with TLSers ready to defend the reputation of their beloved WUSTL. I really don't get it. WUSTL has employment numbers similar to GW, ND, BU, BC, and Fordham and yet all of the schools I just mentioned will repeatedly be trashed on TLS in ways WUSTL is not.

Can't blame the school if employers won't hire its grads. It deserves praise for giving full rides to, frankly, mediocre applicants. And you would be crazy not to take it over six figure debt at the UVAs and Dukes of the world. It uniquely gets credit because it's the only school that will do this for splitters.

I think TLS needs to break away from this attitude. With PAYE it's almost always a better choice to go to Cornell, Duke, or UVA at sticker over WUSTL.

[jbagelboy]

Stop being jelly over WUSTL.
It's a solid school that's doing the right thing, unlike most of the others.
It's reputation, employment prospects, and rankings will only be improving over time.

This is exactly what I mean. Had we been criticizing any other T20 school for its failure to secure jobs for its graduates in spite of its ranking (USC, Emory and UCLA have issues of their own, for example), we would not be confronted with TLSers ready to defend the reputation of their beloved WUSTL. I really don't get it. WUSTL has employment numbers similar to GW, ND, BU, BC, and Fordham and yet all of the schools I just mentioned will repeatedly be trashed on TLS in ways WUSTL is not.

Can't blame the school if employers won't hire its grads. It deserves praise for giving full rides to, frankly, mediocre applicants. And you would be crazy not to take it over six figure debt at the UVAs and Dukes of the world. It uniquely gets credit because it's the only school that will do this for splitters.

I think TLS needs to break away from this attitude. With PAYE it's almost always a better choice to go to Cornell, Duke, or UVA at sticker over WUSTL.

Only if you want to work diligence at milbank for 3 yrs and then oversee credit line extensions for bnp paribas until your divorce finalizes

There are lots of other ways to be an attorney

[Billy Madison]

In the interest of continuing the hijacking of this thread, am I wrong to get a sense from these comments that ND has a more favorable reputation among employers than WUSTL?

[bpolley0]

.

[bpolley0]

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[Lawdork]

Mostly I agreed with you. That's pretty much what I did (went to a school that places simalirly to WUSTL for free) but sometimes I regret not going to a higher ranked school for sticker. PAYE works even when you don't get big law though. Say you end up making 40k, you're only gonna pay $300 a month even if you have 300k in debt. You do that for 20 years and the bulk of the debt is forgiven. PAYE is actually worse if you actually do biglaw bc you end up paying more overall than on a standard 10 year plan.

[jbagelboy]

Mostly I agreed with you. That's pretty much what I did (went to a school that places simalirly to WUSTL for free) but sometimes I regret not going to a higher ranked school for sticker. PAYE works even when you don't get big law though. Say you end up making 40k, you're only gonna pay $300 a month even if you have 300k in debt. You do that for 20 years and the bulk of the debt is forgiven. PAYE is actually worse if you actually do biglaw bc you end up paying more overall than on a standard 10 year plan.

you're significantly underestimating the damage that amount of debt will do to you and your quality of life. PAYE is not the answer.

[bpolley0]

.

[bpolley0]

.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Stop being jelly over WUSTL.
It's a solid school that's doing the right thing, unlike most of the others.
It's reputation, employment prospects, and rankings will only be improving over time.

This is exactly what I mean. Had we been criticizing any other T20 school for its failure to secure jobs for its graduates in spite of its ranking (USC, Emory and UCLA have issues of their own, for example), we would not be confronted with TLSers ready to defend the reputation of their beloved WUSTL. I really don't get it. WUSTL has employment numbers similar to GW, ND, BU, BC, and Fordham and yet all of the schools I just mentioned will repeatedly be trashed on TLS in ways WUSTL is not.

Can't blame the school if employers won't hire its grads. It deserves praise for giving full rides to, frankly, mediocre applicants. And you would be crazy not to take it over six figure debt at the UVAs and Dukes of the world. It uniquely gets credit because it's the only school that will do this for splitters.

I think TLS needs to break away from this attitude. With PAYE it's almost always a better choice to go to Cornell, Duke, or UVA at sticker over WUSTL.

This is a terrible idea. PAYE will not protect you from the tax bomb and you'll be equally fucked. If you're going to take on six figure debt, you better be entirely out of other options.

[TirantMartorell]

University of Missouri

LSAT: 154 / 157 / 159 (-1)
GPA: 3.08 / 3.41 (-0.05) / 3.72
Enrolled: 106 (-9)

[rion91]

BU is out

Basically same medians but added more students

http://www.bu.edu/law/prospective/jd/class_profile/