Latest employment data Forum

[Tiago Splitter]

We had NLJ data. To the extent we had anything it said UCLA and USC were dead even.

[Moneytrees]

To be fair, UCLA and USC have always been pretty close in terms of outcomes. The posters who say otherwise have only been paying attention to the past couple years of data.

makes no sense whatsoever
2011 was the first year of lt/ft/jd. so the "past data" is literally 3 years
so idk how anyone could pay attention to more than the "past couple years", unless they're relying on schools' marketing numbers and anecdata

I've studied NLJ250 data published in the 2000's and USC and UCLA were always close in terms of Biglaw outcomes. USC often did better than UCLA. So sure, that data isn't perfect, but it gives you enough to extrapolate that there isn't a huge disparity in outcomes between those two schools.

[Moneytrees]

To be fair, UCLA and USC have always been pretty close in terms of outcomes. The posters who say otherwise have only been paying attention to the past couple years of data.

makes no sense whatsoever
2011 was the first year of lt/ft/jd. so the "past data" is literally 3 years
so idk how anyone could pay attention to more than the "past couple years", unless they're relying on schools' marketing numbers and anecdata

I've studied NLJ250 data published in the 2000's and USC and UCLA were always close in terms of Biglaw outcomes. USC often did better than UCLA. So sure, that data isn't perfect, but it gives you enough to extrapolate that there isn't a huge disparity in outcomes between those two schools.

If that "makes no sense whatsoever" to you, then either you are the most hyperbolic person I've ever met or you are a just trying to pick a fight.

[03152016]

@tiago
that speaks to my broader point though, doesn't it?
we're talking a subset of a subset
tlsers shit on usc b/c of their garbage stats overall, which were never available in a reliable form before 2011
focusing solely on the bl/fc is distorting, which is my whole point the past few days

[03152016]

unless outcomes = bl+fc in the minds of the board
in which case i really give up

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

This is the new ranking regardless of US News:

I. Harvard Yale Stanford
II. Chicago Columbia NYU Penn Cornell
III. Berkeley Duke UVA Northwestern
IV. Michigan
V. Georgetown Texas UCLA Vanderbilt
VI. WUSTL Emory USC GW Notre Dame BU BC Fordham
VII. Minnesota Iowa Alabama W&M Arizona State Davis Irvine Georgia Wisconsin BYU Indiana Ohio State UNC Colorado Illinois W&L SMU Florida Wake Forest Tulane Georgia State U. Houston Kentucky Missouri Rutgers Villanova

If someone wants to do the rest of the schools fire away. But this is a ranking of the best 51 law schools in the U.S..

[Tiago Splitter]

@tiago
that speaks to my broader point though, doesn't it?
we're talking a subset of a subset
tlsers shit on usc b/c of their garbage stats overall, which were never available in a reliable form before 2011
focusing solely on the bl/fc is distorting, which is my whole point the past few days

Yes it speaks to your broader point, but it kills your argument regarding USC vs. UCLA. We have data as far back as 2005 which tells us those two schools are peers. Everyone agrees biglaw placement, while well short of perfect, is a good proxy for placement generally. That's why we have thread like this one. And biglaw placement between USC and UCLA has been extremely close for ten years.

[starry eyed]

This is the new ranking regardless of US News:

I. Harvard Yale Stanford
II. Chicago Columbia NYU Penn Cornell
III. Berkeley Duke UVA Northwestern
IV. Michigan
V. Georgetown Texas UCLA Vanderbilt
VI. WUSTL Emory USC GW Notre Dame BU BC Fordham
VII. Minnesota Iowa Alabama W&M Arizona State Davis Irvine Georgia Wisconsin BYU Indiana Ohio State UNC Colorado Illinois W&L SMU Florida Wake Forest Tulane Georgia State U. Houston Kentucky Missouri Rutgers Villanova

If someone wants to do the rest of the schools fire away. But this is a ranking of the best 51 law schools in the U.S..

i'll sign

[03152016]

This is the new ranking regardless of US News:

I. Harvard Yale Stanford
II. Chicago Columbia NYU Penn Cornell
III. Berkeley Duke UVA Northwestern
IV. Michigan
V. Georgetown Texas UCLA Vanderbilt
VI. WUSTL Emory USC GW Notre Dame BU BC Fordham
VII. Minnesota Iowa Alabama W&M Arizona State Davis Irvine Georgia Wisconsin BYU Indiana Ohio State UNC Colorado Illinois W&L SMU Florida Wake Forest Tulane Georgia State U. Houston Kentucky Missouri Rutgers Villanova

If someone wants to do the rest of the schools fire away. But this is a ranking of the best 51 law schools in the U.S..

oh god
my stomach hurts and i hear ringing in my ears
time to take a break

[Tiago Splitter]

Needs more tiers

[skers]

BL+FC placement works well as a point of reference because they're generally pretty favorable outcomes and comparable. We don't really know how good the PI or gov jobs are and if they were just last resorts after striking out. Def not true for everyone, but definitely true for a good %.

[03152016]

@tiago
that speaks to my broader point though, doesn't it?
we're talking a subset of a subset
tlsers shit on usc b/c of their garbage stats overall, which were never available in a reliable form before 2011
focusing solely on the bl/fc is distorting, which is my whole point the past few days

Yes it speaks to your broader point, but it kills your argument regarding USC vs. UCLA. We have data as far back as 2005 which tells us those two schools are peers. Everyone agrees biglaw placement, while well short of perfect, is a good proxy for placement generally. That's why we have thread like this one. And biglaw placement between USC and UCLA has been extremely close for ten years.

i disagree that biglaw placement is a good proxy for placement generally
i'll give a simple example

fordham has 34.1% biglaw placement
but a 63.4% employment score

unm has 0% biglaw placement
and a 72.8% employment score

i'm very concerned about how much we're reading into these bl numbers
but i guess at this point the horse has been beaten to death

[chuckbass]

Great targeted advertising ITT

[Sachem]

This is the new ranking regardless of US News:

I. Harvard Yale Stanford
II. Chicago Columbia NYU Penn Cornell
III. Berkeley Duke UVA Northwestern
IV. Michigan
V. Georgetown Texas UCLA Vanderbilt
VI. WUSTL Emory USC GW Notre Dame BU BC Fordham
VII. Minnesota Iowa Alabama W&M Arizona State Davis Irvine Georgia Wisconsin BYU Indiana Ohio State UNC Colorado Illinois W&L SMU Florida Wake Forest Tulane Georgia State U. Houston Kentucky Missouri Rutgers Villanova

If someone wants to do the rest of the schools fire away. But this is a ranking of the best 51 law schools in the U.S..

You should combine II and III, or there will be a lot of arguments.
Pls put USC to V, USC data are almost the same as UCLA.
Then it will be a perfect ranking to me.

Edited: Pls add UIUC to VI. UIUC is awesome!

[Tiago Splitter]

brut when you were a 0L less than a year ago you chose to go to NYU. What was the reason?

[bugsy33]

Schools with worse FTLT Employment that are ranked higher than Illinois:

#22 - Alabama
#26 - Arizona State
#28 - University of Washington
#29 - William & Mary
#31 - Georgia
#31 - Wisconsin
#34 - Indiana - Bloomington
#34 - North Carolina
#34- Fordham
#40 - Colorado

Schools ranked below Illinois with better employment rates: *edit* New Mexico 78%

Schools with worse BigLaw + Fed Clerk and ranked higher:

#20 - Minnesota
#22 - Alabama
#22 - Iowa
#26 - Arizona State
#28 - University of Washington
#29 - William & Mary
#30 - UC - Irvine
#31 - Georgia
#31 - UC - Davis
#31 - Wisconsin
#34 - BYU
#34 - Indiana - Bloomington
#34 - Ohio State
#34 - UNC
#40 - Colorado - Boulder

Schools ranked below Illinois with better BL+FC: ZERO

Seriously, F*** U.S. NEWS

[KMart]

I think people generally understand UIUC should be T25 again. Employers, from what I've been hearing as a prospective student, treat it the same as before. It's all part of the reason why USNews rankings mean little to none.

[BrazilBandit]

BLFC and FTBR are all irrelevant... it's all about those senator and Partnership rankings, in which G/G are powerhouses.

[cannibal ox]

41. Illinois: 72.4% (64.3% without school funded)
71. New Mexico: 78.4% (78.4% without school funded)

[chuckbass]

41. Illinois: 72.4% (64.3% without school funded)
71. New Mexico: 78.4% (78.4% without school funded)

not "ZERO"

[bugsy33]

.

[bugsy33]

41. Illinois: 72.4% (64.3% without school funded)
71. New Mexico: 78.4% (78.4% without school funded)

Good catch. Didn't look outside the spreadsheet. Fixed.

[cannibal ox]

I don't disagree with you, for the record. I just wanted to be a smart ass. Illinois is underrated by US News rankings, it definitely punches above the weight of it's "rank."

[03152016]

brut when you were a 0L less than a year ago you chose to go to NYU. What was the reason?

i debated law school and researched for 2.5 years before attending
i ultimately decided based on misinformation, incorrect assumptions, and misleading information perpetuated in the TLS echo chamber
it was a mistake of a cycle, though i hit a few lucky breaks, as you know
but why are you asking? are you just mocking me for my mistakes?
how long did you spend researching before going to columbia?

[starry eyed]

i dont feel like digging through brut's posts but 0L's want to know the story here