Veterans Thread Forum

[patogordo]

Has anyone seen/heard of a denied applicant sending a seat deposit as "consideration" in the form of a contract game with admissions?

I am contemplating having some fun with a school and "refusing to accept their rejection," and sending them a new offer with consideration (seat deposit check) that is deemed accepted when they cash the check.

Maybe the Dean of Admissions would get a chuckle?

I don't even know what to say.

maybe he's this guy

[nontrad2014]

I like his ability to think/work outside the box. Not to mention going in with a "target" on your back.

[underwear]

Cross-posting this here for obvious reasons.

[FairchildFLT]

Maybe someone can clarify this for me as I've heard it both ways. If using the GI Bill, and you are awarded a scholarship, do you pocket the extra money? Trying to figure out how to support a family of four while in law school.

[ScottRiqui]

Maybe someone can clarify this for me as I've heard it both ways. If using the GI Bill, and you are awarded a scholarship, do you pocket the extra money? Trying to figure out how to support a family of four while in law school.

If the scholarship is earmarked for tuition & fees, you don't pocket it; it simply reduces the size of the bill that the school presents to the VA by the amount of the scholarship. If the scholarship is coded such that it can be used for living expenses (or if you can get the school to re-code it as such), then you pocket the scholarship.

(I'm talking about the Post-9/11 GI Bill, which is the one that makes sense for 99% of veterans, even if they're still eligible for the Montgomery GI Bill.)

[nontrad2014]

Maybe someone can clarify this for me as I've heard it both ways. If using the GI Bill, and you are awarded a scholarship, do you pocket the extra money? Trying to figure out how to support a family of four while in law school.

If the scholarship is earmarked for tuition & fees, you don't pocket it; it simply reduces the size of the bill that the school presents to the VA by the amount of the scholarship. If the scholarship is coded such that it can be used for living expenses (or if you can get the school to re-code it as such), then you pocket the scholarship.

(I'm talking about the Post-9/11 GI Bill, which is the one that makes sense for 99% of veterans, even if they're still eligible for the Montgomery GI Bill.)

This is correct about the Post 9/11 GI Bill. The Post-9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance Act of 2010 changed it. Keep in mind that if you're approved for and use Vocational Rehab then all scholarships, regardless what they are designated for, are refunded to the student.

[GreentoJD]

Don't know how I've missed this, a lot of great advice and veteran-to-veteran support ITT. 3L veteran here at WUSTL.

I wanted to add that WUSTL is expanding YR eligibility for 2014-15 (and moving forward in general) to unlimited/unlimited. Hopefully that will help those considering it. Anyone looking to apply this year is probably going to get an email blast from the school about that soon. It's just part of the great veteran stuff that is developing at the law school and across campus, including special scholarship funds (hopefully) to help those who are not YR eligible.

If you're on the fence about applying send an app their way. Let's just say that they've taken a look at how vets perform during and after law school and seen the light.

[tjsmms061906]

Just thought I would let all the veterans know that the Pat Tillman Foundation Scholar Program is accepting applications until March 6th (I think). http://pattillmanfoundation.org/apply-to-be-a-scholar/

[JazzieShizzle]

Just thought I would let all the veterans know that the Pat Tillman Foundation Scholar Program is accepting applications until March 6th (I think). http://pattillmanfoundation.org/apply-to-be-a-scholar/

Awesome! Thanks for sharing

[Jesse1983]

Appologies if this has been covered elswhere, but i was wondering if anyone here has any insight into how the post 9/11 gi bill affects financial aid awards?

I received an award letter from one of the schools I have been accepted to today. They have the total COA listed at around 42k. I received a 12k per year scholarship from them. The remaining 30k COA was covered in the form of awards of stafford and grad plus loans (21k and 9k respectively).

My question is this, once the financial aid office learns I have 100% eligibility for post 9/11 will they automatically lower the loan award amounts to just cover the COL stuff, or could I theoretically take the full 30k out in loans if I am inclined to do so for whatever reason?

[ScottRiqui]

Appologies if this has been covered elswhere, but i was wondering if anyone here has any insight into how the post 9/11 gi bill affects financial aid awards?

I received an award letter from one of the schools I have been accepted to today. They have the total COA listed at around 42k. I received a 12k per year scholarship from them. The remaining 30k COA was covered in the form of awards of stafford and grad plus loans (21k and 9k respectively).

My question is this, once the financial aid office learns I have 100% eligibility for post 9/11 will they automatically lower the loan award amounts to just cover the COL stuff, or could I theoretically take the full 30k out in loans if I am inclined to do so for whatever reason?

How much of the COA is tuition/fees, and how much is COL? Also, just to give you better answers, is it a private school or a public school, and if it's public, are you getting in-state tuition?

[Jesse1983]

How much of the COA is tuition/fees, and how much is COL? Also, just to give you better answers, is it a private school or a public school, and if it's public, are you getting in-state tuition?

31k tuition, 11k COL, Private, and yes the school is a YRP participant, however the 12k tuition scholarship (no stips) would cover the gap in tuition so I didn't see the need to apply for a YRP spot.

[graphia]

In at NYU, and looks like Ill be attending this fall unless I get in off hold at Columbia. Any of you guys at NYU or Columbia? What's the Vet community like?

Also, I see that tuition at NYU and Columbia is 100% covered through the Yellow Ribbon Program. Looking at the past few years, though, YRP contributions haven't always been this high at these schools. If I were to attend my 1L year with 100% contribution would that lock me into that rate for 2L and 3L, or is there a chance Ill end up paying out of pocket if they drop YRP contributions in the following years?

[ScottRiqui]

In at NYU, and looks like Ill be attending this fall unless I get in off hold at Columbia. Any of you guys at NYU or Columbia? What's the Vet community like?

Also, I see that tuition at NYU and Columbia is 100% covered through the Yellow Ribbon Program. Looking at the past few years, though, YRP contributions haven't always been this high at these schools. If I were to attend my 1L year with 100% contribution would that lock me into that rate for 2L and 3L, or is there a chance Ill end up paying out of pocket if they drop YRP contributions in the following years?

The trend is for YRP contributions to go up, mostly as a reaction to the Post-9/11 GI Bill Version 2.0 changes. Under the original Post-9/11 GI Bill, The VA would pay a New York school (public or private) up to $1010/credit hour in tuition, plus about $12k/year in fees. As a result, there wasn't as much need for the Yellow Ribbon Program.

With version 2.0 of the GI Bill, annual payments to private schools are capped at about $19k per year, regardless of state. This *really* screwed over people who wanted to go to private schools, so a lot of schools raised their YRP contributions in order to attract veterans. Unless something changes with the GI Bill that raises private school payments significantly, I don't think YRP contributions will go back down to the old levels.

[graphia]

Scott,

Thanks for the insight, that's a load off my mind. I can't get over how lucky I am to be able to go to NYU on the GI bill, and part of me keeps expecting to find out its too good to be true.

[ScottRiqui]

Scott,

Thanks for the insight, that's a load off my mind. I can't get over how lucky I am to be able to go to NYU on the GI bill, and part of me keeps expecting to find out its too good to be true.

Setting their YRP contribution to $20k per slot and unlimited slots is NYU's way of saying "Don't worry - we'll make sure that the YRP covers whatever the GI Bill doesn't".

Schools are still adjusting their YRP limits in response to the "version 2.0" changes. Some private schools are raising their contributions and number of slots, and some public schools are getting rid of YRP, since they're granting in-state tuition to any veteran attending under the GI Bill, and the GI Bill now pays 100% of in-state tuition & fees at any public school, so there's no longer any need for YRP.

[graphia]

Held at Columbia and writing a LOCI now. Is it acceptable to mention the school's YRP contributions as a reason why I would attend?

[FairchildFLT]

Does anyone have any experience with the Graduate Law Program for Air Force ROTC detachments? I like the benefit of a "guaranteed job" after graduation. However I would hate to commit to ROTC and then get a similar offer from a local firm. I would assume (very uniformed assumption here) that I could make a bit more money on the outside, and not have to deal with the military hoops (to put it politely.) However, a O-3's salary vs. being unemployed is pretty attractive.

For a little background about myself: I'll be applying this year to CU Boulder and University of Denver. My family is in Denver, my wife's family is in Denver, I grew up there and that is where I want my children to grow up and also where I want to practice law. I'll be 21 in November, I've been in the Air Force just over three years, I am a URM with a 3.5 GPA and I'm registered to take the LSAT this September. I am a Legal Studies major (I've heard this can actually be a negative) and my LOR's are both from practicing attorneys, one of which owns her own law firm. I've heard employment for URM's in Denver is better than average, and hopefully my military service will also help. My military background is in contracting, I would hope to focus on business law and roll that contracting experience into contract law. The four largest law firms in Colorado have a government contracts office so hopefully that will make me stand out even further.

Is it possible to do the GLP and if I do get an offer from a local law firm, give the "thanks but no thanks" to the Air Force?

Thanks in advance!

[uvandy]

Held at Columbia and writing a LOCI now. Is it acceptable to mention the school's YRP contributions as a reason why I would attend?

Tie it in with the school's veteran friendly policies or community. I remember reading about Columbia reaching out to vets (mostly undergrad though).

[uvandy]

Does anyone have any experience with the Graduate Law Program for Air Force ROTC detachments? I like the benefit of a "guaranteed job" after graduation. However I would hate to commit to ROTC and then get a similar offer from a local firm. I would assume (very uniformed assumption here) that I could make a bit more money on the outside, and not have to deal with the military hoops (to put it politely.) However, a O-3's salary vs. being unemployed is pretty attractive.

For a little background about myself: I'll be applying this year to CU Boulder and University of Denver. My family is in Denver, my wife's family is in Denver, I grew up there and that is where I want my children to grow up and also where I want to practice law. I'll be 21 in November, I've been in the Air Force just over three years, I am a URM with a 3.5 GPA and I'm registered to take the LSAT this September. I am a Legal Studies major (I've heard this can actually be a negative) and my LOR's are both from practicing attorneys, one of which owns her own law firm. I've heard employment for URM's in Denver is better than average, and hopefully my military service will also help. My military background is in contracting, I would hope to focus on business law and roll that contracting experience into contract law. The four largest law firms in Colorado have a government contracts office so hopefully that will make me stand out even further.

Is it possible to do the GLP and if I do get an offer from a local law firm, give the "thanks but no thanks" to the Air Force?

Thanks in advance!

From your post, it sounds like you're only interested in JAG as a backup with biglaw as the goal. If you're not committed to serving 4+ years, you shouldn't apply for GLP/OYCP. The selection rate is extremely low (about the same as DAP), and you're adding ROTC obligations during law school (PT, classes, summer training). There's always the reserves and DAP if you change your mind later on.

Your major doesn't really matter for admission. Your GPA and LSAT do. Get academic LOR's. CU/DU are terrible choices for biglaw. With your GPA, URM, and vet status, your goal should be T14 with scholarships (plus GI Bill). Biglaw will be all over you then.

[Naja]

Good afternoon everyone,

Just introducing myself as a possible Law School Applicant in a few years. I am trying to finish my undergraduate degree, I am a junior at a NJ State school in an online program.
SGT US Army disabled(60%)/retired veteran, 7 years service
MOS: 25S7E1C, Satcom maintainer, controller, planner.
Currently working as a contractor. Satcom Engineer/SME in Maryland.

I have a distinct feeling in my gut that I will never be accepted to law school, but am hopeful regardless.
I am scared that I am wasting my time trying to obtain a dream to study and work in law based on horrible decision making of mine between the years of 2000 and 2003. Between those years I have 40 semester hours of F grades as well as 26 semester hours of decent/ok grades, putting my overall undergrad GPA at a whopping 1.0 for those years.

Starting back in to school again last year, I have only taken 1 class, but am enrolled full time now with approx 56SH remaining for my BS-EET due to a bunch of credit being given for my military experience, AP courses from high school, transfer of grades from aforementioned years 2000-2003. Unfortunately those credits given have no grades applied just credit given (I am pretty sure this isn't calculated in your LSAC GPA).

There is a long story as to my failure in college between the years of 2000-2003, mostly involving Depression/fooling my parents/homelessness/being completely retarded and never withdrawing from a course I was failing. Those are VERY dark years in my life that I barely remember and really wish I could leave behind me, but sadly I cannot. I can say that I finally buckled down and started working full time; eventually joining the Army and making something of my life, getting mental health help/meds/counseling. I am a changed man now as apposed to the boy I was 14 years ago.

Looking at the math, even if my next 56 SH of undergrad are 4.0, my undergraduate LSAC GPA would only be a 2.34.
I have not taken a practice LSAT yet, but will do what it takes to make sure I can score 170+ to be competitive.

I know my chances of getting into law school are slim to none with my past being what it is, but if anyone here has any suggestions, words of advice or guidance on what my path should be over the next 2 years before applying to law school, please let me know. Am I a lost cause? Am I wasting my time on a dream that is unobtainable because of a dark life that happened a decade ago? I have sugar plum dreams of attending a T14 school, but based on my GPA alone, I think I would be hard pressed to even get into a Non-ABA law school once I finish my undergrad.

Lost and scared, but hopeful

Tom

[FairchildFLT]

Does anyone have any experience with the Graduate Law Program for Air Force ROTC detachments? I like the benefit of a "guaranteed job" after graduation. However I would hate to commit to ROTC and then get a similar offer from a local firm. I would assume (very uniformed assumption here) that I could make a bit more money on the outside, and not have to deal with the military hoops (to put it politely.) However, a O-3's salary vs. being unemployed is pretty attractive.

For a little background about myself: I'll be applying this year to CU Boulder and University of Denver. My family is in Denver, my wife's family is in Denver, I grew up there and that is where I want my children to grow up and also where I want to practice law. I'll be 21 in November, I've been in the Air Force just over three years, I am a URM with a 3.5 GPA and I'm registered to take the LSAT this September. I am a Legal Studies major (I've heard this can actually be a negative) and my LOR's are both from practicing attorneys, one of which owns her own law firm. I've heard employment for URM's in Denver is better than average, and hopefully my military service will also help. My military background is in contracting, I would hope to focus on business law and roll that contracting experience into contract law. The four largest law firms in Colorado have a government contracts office so hopefully that will make me stand out even further.

Is it possible to do the GLP and if I do get an offer from a local law firm, give the "thanks but no thanks" to the Air Force?

Thanks in advance!

From your post, it sounds like you're only interested in JAG as a backup with biglaw as the goal. If you're not committed to serving 4+ years, you shouldn't apply for GLP/OYCP. The selection rate is extremely low (about the same as DAP), and you're adding ROTC obligations during law school (PT, classes, summer training). There's always the reserves and DAP if you change your mind later on.

Your major doesn't really matter for admission. Your GPA and LSAT do. Get academic LOR's. CU/DU are terrible choices for biglaw. With your GPA, URM, and vet status, your goal should be T14 with scholarships (plus GI Bill). Biglaw will be all over you then.

I would agree with your assessment that I'm interested in ROTC as a back-up primarily. If I can do the same job minus the military hoops, deployments, and PCSing I would prefer that. However, I've put up with the military lifestyle before and if it came down to doing it again and not being able to feed my family I would most definitely do it with a smile.

I may have been a bit unclear about my LOR's and that is my fault. As a Legal Studies major my instructors are mostly lawyers. So my LOR's are from my professors, who also happen to be practicing attorneys.

I'll reiterate that I am a bit uninformed here so I appreciate everyone’s input. I've heard that CU Boulder/DU would be a better choice than anything outside of the T14 if you want to practice in Colorado. I've read the going rate for a new attorney in Colorado is around 130K. Is that referring to biglaw? (Which you said CU/DU would be a bad choice for) I’ve got a wife and two kids which is why I would like to stay in Colorado as it will be easier to have my parents or my wife’s parents watch them vs. daycare etc…As a JAG Captain (six months after Commissioning) I could make around 80K. Assuming I’m not a total dirt bag and do relatively well in law school, could I expect to make around the same amount in the Colorado law market?

[nontrad2014]

Does anyone have any experience with the Graduate Law Program for Air Force ROTC detachments? I like the benefit of a "guaranteed job" after graduation. However I would hate to commit to ROTC and then get a similar offer from a local firm. I would assume (very uniformed assumption here) that I could make a bit more money on the outside, and not have to deal with the military hoops (to put it politely.) However, a O-3's salary vs. being unemployed is pretty attractive.

For a little background about myself: I'll be applying this year to CU Boulder and University of Denver. My family is in Denver, my wife's family is in Denver, I grew up there and that is where I want my children to grow up and also where I want to practice law. I'll be 21 in November, I've been in the Air Force just over three years, I am a URM with a 3.5 GPA and I'm registered to take the LSAT this September. I am a Legal Studies major (I've heard this can actually be a negative) and my LOR's are both from practicing attorneys, one of which owns her own law firm. I've heard employment for URM's in Denver is better than average, and hopefully my military service will also help. My military background is in contracting, I would hope to focus on business law and roll that contracting experience into contract law. The four largest law firms in Colorado have a government contracts office so hopefully that will make me stand out even further.

Is it possible to do the GLP and if I do get an offer from a local law firm, give the "thanks but no thanks" to the Air Force?

Thanks in advance!

From your post, it sounds like you're only interested in JAG as a backup with biglaw as the goal. If you're not committed to serving 4+ years, you shouldn't apply for GLP/OYCP. The selection rate is extremely low (about the same as DAP), and you're adding ROTC obligations during law school (PT, classes, summer training). There's always the reserves and DAP if you change your mind later on.

Your major doesn't really matter for admission. Your GPA and LSAT do. Get academic LOR's. CU/DU are terrible choices for biglaw. With your GPA, URM, and vet status, your goal should be T14 with scholarships (plus GI Bill). Biglaw will be all over you then.

I would agree with your assessment that I'm interested in ROTC as a back-up primarily. If I can do the same job minus the military hoops, deployments, and PCSing I would prefer that. However, I've put up with the military lifestyle before and if it came down to doing it again and not being able to feed my family I would most definitely do it with a smile.

I may have been a bit unclear about my LOR's and that is my fault. As a Legal Studies major my instructors are mostly lawyers. So my LOR's are from my professors, who also happen to be practicing attorneys.

I'll reiterate that I am a bit uninformed here so I appreciate everyone’s input. I've heard that CU Boulder/DU would be a better choice than anything outside of the T14 if you want to practice in Colorado. I've read the going rate for a new attorney in Colorado is around 130K. Is that referring to biglaw? (Which you said CU/DU would be a bad choice for) I’ve got a wife and two kids which is why I would like to stay in Colorado as it will be easier to have my parents or my wife’s parents watch them vs. daycare etc…As a JAG Captain (six months after Commissioning) I could make around 80K. Assuming I’m not a total dirt bag and do relatively well in law school, could I expect to make around the same amount in the Colorado law market?

I have to agree about only pursuing JAG if you truly want that lifestyle again; however, I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the poor selection rate since anyone can interview.

In regards to DU and Boulder: if you plan to stay regional I don't see either school hurting you. Search the Denver area and look at attorney bio's. See where they went to school and that should give you a place to start. Also, look at job openings in the area and see what starting salaries are. You can also go to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics and see what the market looks like; i.e. declining, steady, or uptrend.

Life is about networking....coming from a Military background you already have a network to work from. You'll be fine as long as you make your own path.

[chneyo]

...

[uvandy]

I'll reiterate that I am a bit uninformed here so I appreciate everyone’s input. I've heard that CU Boulder/DU would be a better choice than anything outside of the T14 if you want to practice in Colorado.

It sounds like you already have strong ties to the state, so a T14 degree can only help you. If you want to practice in public interest, local gov, or a small firm, CU/DU are decent choices. The odds are heavily against you if you want biglaw from those schools. Less than 5% of CU/DU grads work in biglaw according to lstscorereports.com.